CNC vs Laser

[larryc]

OK I did a search on CNC routers and TMI (too much information).

So I guess I should start out with a more basic question.

In order to do engraving on pens and pen boxes should I use a CNC engraver or a laser engraver?

 

[turncrazy43]

Larry, I don't know the answer but would like to know what knowledgeable folks here will have to say on the subject. Thanks for asking the question.
______________________________________________________
Everyday I'm vertical is a great day

 

[Fish30114]

Larry, in my admittedly limited experience, Lasers are very specific use items, and typically one's that are even reasonably affordable are low powered when speaking of lasers--these things make it such that lasers are for very specific uses. CNC machine tools are much more 'useable' for the type of things we are talking about on these forums. I think if you have or have access to a person who is capable of programming a CNC you can achieve a lot more useable products with a CNC machine tool than with a laser. Now, having said all that, I suspect that if you could find a lower powered laser that will achieve the work that you want it might be just as affordable as a CNC machine that will do the same work--but In general I don't think you will find a laser that is very versatile.

Just some FYI from experience from my time in the manufacturing world.


Good luck figuring out what you're looking for!

 

[mredburn]

There is no easy answer. I use cnc. both have their strong points. If you go cnc you may need quite a bit of tooling and both will probably need a 4th axis if you plan on engraving around the pen. You will need software for both, do you have any expriance writing G code?

 

[larryc]

There is no easy answer. I use cnc. both have their strong points. If you go cnc you may need quite a bit of tooling and both will probably need a 4th axis if you plan on engraving around the pen. You will need software for both, do you have any expriance writing G code?

G code? Sure I Googled it and come up with Search results

1. G-Code Holsters and Accessories for Tactical Carry...
   
   
   

I don't think that's what you mean!

 

[mredburn]

I dont know thats a pretty good answer also. THere are all levels of software pricewise. The more complex your needs the more expensive the solutions. There are several programs you can probably use that wont cost a lot or are free. You may have to get creative to get the results you need.

 

[Donovan]

I have both and both with a 4th axis.I use artcam to make designs and the cnc and the laser software will do the rest. Most of the work on the laser is done with Coraldraw

 

[oneleggimp]

All the comments about the fourth axis are valid points. As far as which modality (CNC Router or Laser engraver) it seems that the few trophy shops that do wood engraving use a laser. Woodturninz offers laser engraving services on pen blanks so it might be argued that laser engraver is the way to go and that argument is supported by the name of the machine: laser "Engraver". There are chinese laser engravers available on Amazon. A pen turner by the name of Chad Schimmel who is on Youtube bought one a while ago and did a youtube presentation on it. You might want to spend a few minutes and give it a look. Just a thought..

 

[Ed McDonnell]

In a perfect world, I would have both, but my world is not yet perfect. I ultimately decided on cnc router/mill over laser. The router / mill seemed much more versatile in what they could do for the things I wanted to do (embellish large woodturnings and make pens).

Other considerations (which some may pooh pooh):

The router / mill will not generate toxic fumes that might kill you or destroy the machine if you cut / engrave the wrong materials or don't have adequate venting outside the shop.

The router / mill is much less likely to burn your shop / house down if you walk away while it is running.

The router / mill will have regular small expenses for tooling / sharpening. The laser will have infrequent BIG expenses for laser tubes.

You can almost take a baseball bat to a well built router / mill and not do too much damage. You might get different results with a laser.

My bottom line is I don't think you can go wrong either way, but you need to make sure you know what you want to do (now and in the future) before plunking down your wad of cash.

Ed

 

[oneleggimp]

No Pooh-Pooh ing here. All seem to be valid points to me.

 

[TBCbushings]

I know G-Code...use it every day...lol

 

[ironman123]

Well said Ed.

 

[low_48]

A few points to ponder. How fine of work, and how fast do you want to work? A laser beam is around .005" diameter, depending on what lens you use. Tough to get that fine with a CNC. You can get pretty fine with a tapered engraving bit. A laser can put on a name in under 30 seconds with no method of holding. Just rest the pen in a v-block so it doesn't rotate. CNC may do some fonts that fast, but something with serif points will take longer. You also need some method of holding the pen to the table because of forces of routing. Most laser software works off jpeg files, so even pictures can be engraved. More like a printer. CNC needs vectors, points and curves, created and then Gcode to drive the machine. It's my opinion (and I have a laser and ran a 5 axis CNC on my day job before retiring) a laser is far superior for pen work.

 

[TimS124]

Larry - your profile says you're close to Atlanta...I suggest a road trip to visit a couple of the maker spaces in Atlanta to see which of them can provide you with access to both a laser engraver and a CNC router.

Both machines have their strengths and weaknesses...it really depends on the results you're after. Earlier this week, I used a CNC Router to create custom pen boxes then laser engraved the name of each person that will receive one. I could have engraved them with the CNC Router (and have done that for other projects) but wanted the look/feel/speed of the laser this time.

I looked at the exact same text, same font, same computer driving all the work and noticed that the results would be better, and easier to accomplish, on the laser. The way the letters flow together in the font was handled better in CorelDraw (for the laser) than they were handled by VCarve/Aspire for the CNC Router. I could spend time forcing the CNC Router to do what I wanted, but went with the laser instead.

The cool thing with maker spaces is you can get access to expensive machines for a fraction of the cost....like using high end fitness equipment at a health club. You share access which helps keep the cost reasonable especially if you only need occasional access.

There are trade offs and downsides, but it's a great place to try both with training/support generally available...

 

[vfauto]

2x well said

Of all the responses this one seems to be the most correct (IMO)response to the question. I agree with some other points such as a CNC is more versatile but pertaining to pens Laser is the way to go.I have a 5 axis CNC and to set up a pen to engrave on will take you way longer than it will to engrave it on a laser. A laser should give you much better detail.

A few points to ponder. How fine of work, and how fast do you want to work? A laser beam is around .005" diameter, depending on what lens you use. Tough to get that fine with a CNC. You can get pretty fine with a tapered engraving bit. A laser can put on a name in under 30 seconds with no method of holding. Just rest the pen in a v-block so it doesn't rotate. CNC may do some fonts that fast, but something with serif points will take longer. You also need some method of holding the pen to the table because of forces of routing. Most laser software works off jpeg files, so even pictures can be engraved. More like a printer. CNC needs vectors, points and curves, created and then Gcode to drive the machine. It's my opinion (and I have a laser and ran a 5 axis CNC on my day job before retiring) a laser is far superior for pen work.

 

[larryc]

Larry - your profile says you're close to Atlanta...I suggest a road trip to visit a couple of the maker spaces in Atlanta to see which of them can provide you with access to both a laser engraver and a CNC router.

Both machines have their strengths and weaknesses...it really depends on the results you're after. Earlier this week, I used a CNC Router to create custom pen boxes then laser engraved the name of each person that will receive one. I could have engraved them with the CNC Router (and have done that for other projects) but wanted the look/feel/speed of the laser this time.

I looked at the exact same text, same font, same computer driving all the work and noticed that the results would be better, and easier to accomplish, on the laser. The way the letters flow together in the font was handled better in CorelDraw (for the laser) than they were handled by VCarve/Aspire for the CNC Router. I could spend time forcing the CNC Router to do what I wanted, but went with the laser instead.

The cool thing with maker spaces is you can get access to expensive machines for a fraction of the cost....like using high end fitness equipment at a health club. You share access which helps keep the cost reasonable especially if you only need occasional access.

There are trade offs and downsides, but it's a great place to try both with training/support generally available...

I had never heard about maker spaces before so I Googled it. What a concept! I'll have to look into this.

 

[larryc]

Of all the responses this one seems to be the most correct (IMO)response to the question. I agree with some other points such as a CNC is more versatile but pertaining to pens Laser is the way to go.I have a 5 axis CNC and to set up a pen to engrave on will take you way longer than it will to engrave it on a laser. A laser should give you much better detail.

A few points to ponder. How fine of work, and how fast do you want to work? A laser beam is around .005" diameter, depending on what lens you use. Tough to get that fine with a CNC. You can get pretty fine with a tapered engraving bit. A laser can put on a name in under 30 seconds with no method of holding. Just rest the pen in a v-block so it doesn't rotate. CNC may do some fonts that fast, but something with serif points will take longer. You also need some method of holding the pen to the table because of forces of routing. Most laser software works off jpeg files, so even pictures can be engraved. More like a printer. CNC needs vectors, points and curves, created and then Gcode to drive the machine. It's my opinion (and I have a laser and ran a 5 axis CNC on my day job before retiring) a laser is far superior for pen work.

I agree this seems to point out the advantages of the laser. Now I just have to determine the best one for my needs, whether I can afford it, can I use it with my Mac computer? More answers needed.

 

[low_48]

You can get some really cheap lasers direct from China on Ebay. But I read posts everyday from someone that has a tube problem, power supply problem, software problem, and no or extremely slow help from China. You'll also read about laser life as low as 100 hours. That's a lot of 30 second name burns, but the tubes also degrade just sitting there with no usage. There are companies in the USA that resell Chinese lasers with their own software, or upgraded laser tubes. That would be the only way I would buy one of those machines. You won't save any money if it just sits there like a paperweight if you can't get it running. You're going to hear a lot of the opposite opinion, but a lot of those people can tinker with electronics. Me? I need my hand held around these machines at the start. When a computer is involved, I still get a knot in my gut when I get started around a new machine. Maybe because I ran that CNC on the day job, but I just saw a lot of trouble over the years from something as simple as a corporate software update that should have had no effect, but did!

 

[TimS124]

....Now I just have to determine the best one for my needs, whether I can afford it, can I use it with my Mac computer? More answers needed.

Sadly, the only way I've been able to use my Mac with CNC is by running Windows on it. Parallels is my drug of choice for doing that but it's obviously not what you (or I) really want...

Epilog recently released Mac drivers for their Fusion but I've seen posts from hardcore users complaining that the Mac version needs more work...and the Fusion line is not entry-level priced...

Try the maker-space route first to get some hands-on experience and training...

 

[Wildman]

I am not sure which machine is the way to go! If do a search for "coding CNC machines," will see a lot of info and compilers available for G, M, & N coding.

More important to most people here is buying a machine with software needed to do what you want that machine to do already installed! So when looking at these machines look at software package installed or optional for that machine.

If want to build your own machine might help if took a class on coding and interfacing cad & drawing software to run your machine.

Good luck with that!

 

[Carl Fisher]

I have a CNC but I'm also looking to add a laser.

A laser will engrave and engrave well especially at smaller point fonts. They're easier to use but are much more limited in other areas. They can cut thin material, but the 40W hobby lasers will only cut relatively thin material at any respectable feed rate.

A CNC will cut / mill / contour / engrave / drag knife / hot wire cut / laser engrave and more depending on the tool attached to the machine. But the learning curve is much higher with a CNC because you need to learn the full workflow. CAD > CAM > Controller. And adding even a 2W laser for engraving is not an endeavor for the meek and has quite a few dangerous pitfalls.

For me though I haven't found a bit or tooling combination that will give me the same engraving results that a laser can provide which is why I'm looking to add the laser to my arsenal.