Cigar Turners - Check Your Bushings

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egnald

egnald

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Greetings fellow IAP members,

If you turn Cigar kits using bushings, you might not be aware of the following (for a long time I wasn't).

About a year ago, Ed from Exotic Blanks did a YouTube short video related to the lower-center bushing on Cigar pen kits and how the standard bushings leave a little "shelf" between the blank and the trim ring. Although the difference might seem subtle, I find a very noticable difference between the pens I made a few years ago with standard bushings and the ones I have made more recently. I drew this up to illustrate the difference for my own Cigar kit turning and assembly instructions. (I did my best to make the drawings to scale).
Cigar Improved Fit Bushings Illustration.jpg

Although the same results can be achieved by using standard bushings followed by turning the center end of the lower blank down farther to the 0.490" diameter, I think using a set of Ed's Improved Fit (11A) bushings makes the job much easier. Here is a link to the Improved Fit Bushings that Exotic Blanks sells and a link to Ed's YouTube video Cigar Pen Design Improvement that explains them.

Regards,
Dave
 
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RKB

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Thank You Dave for sharing this information and appreciate your time and dedication to our site.
Cheers.
 
jttheclockman

jttheclockman

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egnald said:
Greetings fellow IAP members,

If you turn Cigar kits using bushings, you might not be aware of the following (for a long time I wasn't).

About a year ago, Ed from Exotic Blanks did a YouTube short video related to the lower-center bushing on Cigar pen kits and how the standard bushings leave a little "shelf" between the blank and the trim ring. Although the difference might seem subtle, I find a very noticable difference between the pens I made a few years ago with standard bushings and the ones I have made more recently. I drew this up to illustrate the difference for my own Cigar kit turning and assembly instructions. (I did my best to make the drawings to scale).
View attachment 360532
Although the same results can be achieved by using standard bushings followed by turning the center end of the lower blank down farther to the 0.490" diameter, I think using a set of Ed's Improved Fit (11A) bushings makes the job much easier. Here is a link to the Improved Fit Bushings that Exotic Blanks sells and a link to Ed's YouTube video Cigar Pen Design Improvement that explains them.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Did not understand any of this. Why is there a problem. Now remember there are a ton of different cigar kits so not all have a problem as you seem to elude to. I am working on one right now called an ultra cigar kit. Have not cast the blanks yet but they are made ready for resin. Have made quite a few over the years. need better photos of what you are referring to.
 
egnald

egnald

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jttheclockman said:
Did not understand any of this. Why is there a problem. Now remember there are a ton of different cigar kits so not all have a problem as you seem to elude to. I am working on one right now called an ultra cigar kit. Have not cast the blanks yet but they are made ready for resin. Have made quite a few over the years. need better photos of what you are referring to.
Click to expand...
John,
Ed's video explains it better than I could ever hope to, but here goes - along with pictures.

The standard Cigar bushing (lower blank center) is 0.528" diameter.
The Trim ring is also 0.528" diameter, but it is not flat, it has a radius.
The blank below was turned to 0.528" diameter according to the Standard bushing.
So there is a "shelf" or step between the blank because of the radius on the trim ring.

The Standard Bushing, the Turned Blank, and the Trim Ring OD all measure 0.528" in the picture below.
The transition between the blank and the trim ring just doesn't look as nice as it could.

Improved Fit Standard Illustration.JPG
xIMG_3934 Cropped.jpg


The Improved Fit Bushing for the (lower blank center) is 0.490" diameter.
The Trim Ring is 0.528" diameter, but the flat, before the radius is 0.490" diameter
The blank below was turned to 0.490" diameter - according to the Improved Fit bushing.
The Trim ring is still 0.528" diameter, but the flat part (before the radius) is only 0.490" diameter.
Since the Blank is turned to the dimension of the "flat", there is no "shelf"

The Improved Fit Bushing and the Turned Blank measure 0.490" and the Trim Ring OD still measures 0.528" in the picture below.
It just makes for a smoother looking transition between the blank and the trim ring.

Improved Fit Illustration.JPG
xIMG_3935 Cropped.jpg


I hope the pictures help show it as it is kind of hard to put into words.

Best Regards,
Dave
 
Last edited:
M

Mike

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Thanks Dave, I have a few of those to turn. You did an excellent job with the pics and words.

Mike
 
jttheclockman

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egnald said:
John,
Ed's video explains it better than I could ever hope to, but here goes - along with pictures.

The standard Cigar bushing (lower blank center) is 0.528" diameter.
The Trim ring is also 0.528" diameter, but it is not flat, it has a radius.
The blank below was turned to 0.528" diameter according to the Standard bushing.
So there is a "shelf" or step between the blank because of the radius on the trim ring.

The Standard Bushing, the Turned Blank, and the Trim Ring OD all measure 0.528" in the picture below.
The transition between the blank and the trim ring just doesn't look as nice as it could.

View attachment 360565

The Improved Fit Bushing for the (lower blank center) is 0.490" diameter.
The Trim Ring is 0.528" diameter, but the flat, before the radius is 0.490" diameter
The blank below was turned to 0.490" diameter - according to the Improved Fit bushing.
The Trim ring is still 0.528" diameter, but the flat part (before the radius) is only 0.490" diameter.
Since the Blank is turned to the dimension of the "flat", there is no "shelf"

The Improved Fit Bushing and the Turned Blank measure 0.490" and the Trim Ring OD still measures 0.528" in the picture below.
It just makes for a smoother looking transition between the blank and the trim ring.

View attachment 360566

I hope the pictures help show it as it is kind of hard to put into words.

Best Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
OK that explains it. But I warn everyone to never ever use a bushing to final dimension. They are guides only. Use the calipers to zero in on exact dimensions. I would have compensated as I always do for any rounded over components. If you want to go this route he could make e bushings for all sierra kits and that top round portion. There are many kits that the bling sometimes stick out further than the rings and these need to be addressed when turning to bushing size also. But hopefully the warning you placed here does draw attention to that situation and maybe get people to look at other kits as well. Thanks for the explanation. Example of a sierra top portion of that kit and the round over component.

Copy (2) of IMGP0188.JPG
Copy of Copy of IMGP0106.JPG
 
egnald

egnald

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jttheclockman said:
OK that explains it. But I warn everyone to never ever use a bushing to final dimension. They are guides only. Use the calipers to zero in on exact dimensions. I would have compensated as I always do for any rounded over components. If you want to go this route he could make e bushings for all sierra kits and that top round portion. There are many kits that the bling sometimes stick out further than the rings and these need to be addressed when turning to bushing size also. But hopefully the warning you placed here does draw attention to that situation and maybe get people to look at other kits as well. Thanks for the explanation. Example of a sierra top portion of that kit and the round over component.
Click to expand...
John,
Your observation about the Sierra style is exactly what spawned the change to the Cigar bushing for an improved fit. The Sierra styles already have a reduced size bushing that is designed to mate up with the flat on the radiused trim rings and not on their outside dimensions. I am pretty sure that the Sierra is where Ed got his inspiration for a smaller Cigar bushing from. If I remember right, I think he mentions it in the video.
Dave.
 
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Muddydogs

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I get it now Dave, thanks for the heads up, I might turn a cigar one day.
Just looked at a Gatsby click pen which is similar to the Sierra and the bushing are as you described, end of blank hits the ring flat.

I wonder how many people turn to bushing versus measuring? I would bet very few measure the blank for final diameter and turn down to the bushings.

I turn to bushing with perfect results and see no need to measure, I do check my bushing for size every once in a while in case I got western with the cutter or sanding. After my first dozen pens I rarely touch the bushings anymore. Went through 3 sets of slimline bushing starting out though.
 
egnald

egnald

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Muddydogs said:
I wonder how many people turn to bushing versus measuring? I would bet very few measure the blank for final diameter and turn down to the bushings.

I turn to bushing with perfect results and see no need to measure, I do check my bushing for size every once in a while in case I got western with the cutter or sanding. After my first dozen pens I rarely touch the bushings anymore. Went through 3 sets of slimline bushing starting out though.
Click to expand...

I think your bet is pretty accurate. For me, I kind of do a little bit of both, I always turn to the bushing, but I also measure the bushing against a personal tolerance guideline before I use it. Occasionally if I have a kit where I think a mismatch in the fit would be very noticable, I measure the blank and the pen components with reference to my bushings, but the occasion is rare.

I too used to replace bushings much more frequently than I do now. I think there is just a certain skill level and muscle memory related to turning to the bushings and sanding without scraping off metal.

I do however check my bushing diameters when I am preparing to turn a pen, especially if the blank is very unique or if the kit is relatively expensive (or obsolete). I also examine the fit on my finished pens closely and use it as an indication that the bushing needs to be evaluated against its dimensions. I have found that taking pictures of my pens for posting on IAP often exaggerates small defects and differences in fit that are not nearly as noticeable with the naked eye.

According to the Penn State Industries Bushing Book, and their drawings, the bushings are called out at nominal but have a 0.002" tolerance when new. Woodpeckers even turns a "wear groove" in their Precision Pen Turning Bushings as an indicator for when the bushing has worn to the level where it needs to be replaced (but I don't know the depth of their groove). My personal guideline is 0.006" under nominal which gives me about 4 thousandths below the smallest tolerance of the bushing when it is new. I always keep a new, virgin set of bushings for each kit along with my in-use set that I can switch to if I find a bushing has exceeded my 0.006". They are also handy for use to provide a reference measurement between new and in-use bushings.

Coming from an equipment engineering, machine shop, and manufacturing background, it is my opinion that all things, including pen kits and associated tooling should be designed with manufacturing tolerances in mind such that the end result should meet acceptance criteria appropriate for the item. Most modern design and drafting software, even lower end products like SolidWorks and AutoCad have the capability of examining designs for interference fits based on part dimensions and tolerances. So newly designed pen kits and their associated bushings should provide acceptable results when used in accordance to normal procedures and guidelines. Unfortunately it is not always the case, but it should be the goal.

Best Regards,
Dave
 
jttheclockman

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I have said this many times here and I sound like a broken record but I basically use bushings to get me close to finish size. I could care less if they are undersized and I purposely do that so they are not in the way. I have bushings I still use that are over 15 years old. A good set of calipers is what makes the difference when turning a blank down to finish. I always measure each kit and bushings before I turn a pen and write those measurements down so when I take the blank off mandrel I know how much I have to turn down. Comparing bushing to components just gives me an idea how close I can come to bushing before getting calipers out. After awhile it becomes second nature.
 
KenB259

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jttheclockman said:
I have said this many times here and I sound like a broken record but I basically use bushings to get me close to finish size. I could care less if they are undersized and I purposely do that so they are not in the way. I have bushings I still use that are over 15 years old. A good set of calipers is what makes the difference when turning a blank down to finish. I always measure each kit and bushings before I turn a pen and write those measurements down so when I take the blank off mandrel I know how much I have to turn down. Comparing bushing to components just gives me an idea how close I can come to bushing before getting calipers out. After awhile it becomes second nature.
Click to expand...
100 % agree, calipers are necessary, unless "close enough" is good enough for you. I have a small whiteboard hanging by my lathe, I write my final dimensions that match my components on every pen before I even begin to turn it.
 
jttheclockman

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KenB259 said:
100 % agree, calipers are necessary, unless "close enough" is good enough for you. I have a small whiteboard hanging by my lathe, I write my final dimensions that match my components on every pen before I even begin to turn it.
Click to expand...
Sneaky:) Changed the avatar. Thought we had a new member.
 
jrista

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egnald said:
Woodpeckers even turns a "wear groove" in their Precision Pen Turning Bushings as an indicator for when the bushing has worn to the level where it needs to be replaced (but I don't know the depth of their groove). My personal guideline is 0.006" under nominal which gives me about 4 thousandths below the smallest tolerance of the bushing when it is new. I always keep a new, virgin set of bushings for each kit along with my in-use set that I can switch to if I find a bushing has exceeded my 0.006". They are also handy for use to provide a reference measurement between new and in-use bushings.

Coming from an equipment engineering, machine shop, and manufacturing background, it is my opinion that all things, including pen kits and associated tooling should be designed with manufacturing tolerances in mind such that the end result should meet acceptance criteria appropriate for the item. Most modern design and drafting software, even lower end products like SolidWorks and AutoCad have the capability of examining designs for interference fits based on part dimensions and tolerances. So newly designed pen kits and their associated bushings should provide acceptable results when used in accordance to normal procedures and guidelines. Unfortunately it is not always the case, but it should be the goal.

Best Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Interesting! I have some bushings with grooves...it never occurred to me that was a wear indicator. That's really handy! I mostly use the TBC bushings, which are steel, and they do not wear down very fast at all. They do pick up scratches occasionally, but they are very hard compared to the normal bushings sold by the kit manufacturers.

Anyway, appreciate the thread. I have been over-turning my cigar kits for a while now. I noticed the funky fit between blank and fitting a couple years ago, and it bugged me. Its going to be interesting now, adjusting my turning now that I'm using gluboost...need to make sure I can overturn enough to support some layers of glue plus the underfit for the arched part of the fitting, without overturning...
 
sorcerertd

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I think the redesigned bushings were a great idea on Ed's part. That mismatched size used to drive me crazy until I started TBC with calipers. Thanks to the IAP members who told me about that. I stopped buying bushings. As for the bushings I already have, I still use them for the proper kits, but never to measure final fit. New kits that I don't buy bushings for, I just use whatever I have that is somewhat close and fit in the same sized tube. I measure the kit parts with calipers, then use TBC adapters to hold the "wrong" bushings and turn close to dimensions of the hardware that the barrel needs to match up with. The final turning to proper size and finishing is done with the tube directly between the centers, also measured with calipers. That's just what's been working for me.
 
jttheclockman

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Wow David, I am sorry I will be of no help to you on this. I have been here since 2005 and over those years I have bought rods from various members here who were selling out their stash or just came into some good stuff and shared. All I know it is an Italian material. I looked at the rods I have and no name on them. I know that I bought many Celoplast rods as well from this person. I vaguely remember the transactions we had but it was so long ago I could not tell you who. I have a few others that I have not made pens from that should be as stunning. Is there material that mimics it out there I do not know. I do know this place is a good place to get some nice material which I had shown here and mentioned before. I believe the grey is called stone and looks close to what I used. Is it for sure I do not know. But their Italian rods are very nice. I have their tan Jade and the Cream swirl that I will be using soon. They should look great too. All those Celoplast rods you see on occasion here are fantastic stuff also. Tough to find and just need to keep an eye out here for someone giving some up.


https://vermontfreehand.com/product/acrylic-rods/

Copy of IMGP0279.JPG
red and blue cigar pens.JPG
 
randyrls

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egnald said:
If you turn Cigar kits using bushings, you might not be aware of the following (for a long time I wasn't).

About a year ago, Ed from Exotic Blanks did a YouTube short video related to the lower-center bushing on Cigar pen kits and how the standard bushings leave a little "shelf" between the blank and the trim ring. Although the difference might seem subtle, I find a very noticable difference between the pens I made a few years ago with standard bushings and the ones I have made more recently. I drew this up to illustrate the difference for my own Cigar kit turning and assembly instructions. (I did my best to make the drawings to scale).
Click to expand...

Dave; I always turn down any blank that joins to a round fitting feature to the point where a vertical line joins the blank. This creates a better fit and feel. I will mount oversize bushings in my metal lathe and turn them down to this diameter and a few thousand under. The bushing lasts a LOT longer if I don't run tools into them.

Thank you for your post. It is clear and understandable.
 
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