Hippie3180
Member
Help! I get swirls on my cap/body ends when I try to do a finish esp on wood they are noticeable, how do I prevent/deal with those?
CA/Gluboost finish and swirls on cap/body end
- Thread starter Hippie3180
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hokie
Member
Sanding and polishing the swirls away is always part of my process. I may even add more CA to fill in the valleys, then re-sand and polish.
Hippie3180
Member
I sand and polish and still see them, maybe filling in the valleys like you suggested is what I'm missing.
jttheclockman
Member
Photos will help. I do not understand the question. What is a swirl?
Yeah, some photos would help. Curious how you are applying the CA? I have learned, with my own recent journey into switching to Gluboost, that application technique matters. You can throw on a LOT of CA, and it can wrinkle and have other problems. Thinner coats are generally better, and how you apply is important. I use a foam applicator with wax paper bonded to one side. The wax paper doesn't hold any CA, so the vast majority of it gets onto the blank. I found that applying with the lathe turning fairly slowly, rather than fast, was a critical part of solving my problems. I think a faster speed creates heat, which overly rapidly cures the glue.
When it comes to sanding. If you can get smooth, thin coats, then you should be able to start at a fairly high grit. I ALWAYS wet sand. If I get a good initial application, I'll sand with 600, 800, 1200 and maybe 1500 grit standard sandpapers, then use the full range of Zona. Standard sandpapers, in my experience, even up to 3000 grit, are NOT sufficient to give you a perfectly clear, smooth finish. Zona paper takes me to 1 micron scratch scale, and that generally does the trick to clear up the finish. I still buff, though, to fully get rid of any scratches (which I'm currently assuming is what the swirls are?) Anyway, its critical that you use something with a finer sanding capability than standard grit sandpapers. Micro Mesh at least, I find Zona is better, or something.
The new Gluboost ultra thin (green label bottle) with a fine whiptail applicator, and very thin application, can be useful for filling in some of the valleys. You might be able to use that as a final coat, then start with a higher grit of sandpaper (maybe even start right off with Zona green (30 micron) or maybe even gray (15 micron) wet).
When it comes to sanding. If you can get smooth, thin coats, then you should be able to start at a fairly high grit. I ALWAYS wet sand. If I get a good initial application, I'll sand with 600, 800, 1200 and maybe 1500 grit standard sandpapers, then use the full range of Zona. Standard sandpapers, in my experience, even up to 3000 grit, are NOT sufficient to give you a perfectly clear, smooth finish. Zona paper takes me to 1 micron scratch scale, and that generally does the trick to clear up the finish. I still buff, though, to fully get rid of any scratches (which I'm currently assuming is what the swirls are?) Anyway, its critical that you use something with a finer sanding capability than standard grit sandpapers. Micro Mesh at least, I find Zona is better, or something.
The new Gluboost ultra thin (green label bottle) with a fine whiptail applicator, and very thin application, can be useful for filling in some of the valleys. You might be able to use that as a final coat, then start with a higher grit of sandpaper (maybe even start right off with Zona green (30 micron) or maybe even gray (15 micron) wet).
Hippie3180
Member
I tried to get a photo and I just couldn't get it to where you could see the swirls. They come from the application of ca/Globoost on the end of your piece.
Hippie3180
Member
I use blue shop towel to apply at a slow speed on my lathe. Sometimes I can polish them and they disappear, other times they are still there.
Would you be able to link the applicators you use? Thank you.
jttheclockman
Member
I just do not know what a swirl is when talking finishes. I am sorry I can not help with your problem.
Hippie3180
Member
It's okay.
The swirl happens from the application of glue on the end of your piece sometimes if you look carefully, especially on wood or dark blanks you'll see a whirl/swirled area of ca/Gluboost build up from where the lathe is turning as you are applying glue. Sometimes the sanding/polishing process is enough to get rid of it,sometimes not.
Curly
Member
Any chance the "swirls" are sanding scratches in the wood that you didn't see before you applied the CA?
jttheclockman
Member
I have been doing pens over 15 years and have never had a swirl. When I put CA on I make sure the wiping goes from one end to the other and it goes off the ends of the blanks. I never stop at the end of a blank. That is why you use teflon bushings. Good luck and hope you get an answer that helps.
I just picked up some craft foam sheets from walmart. When I used them directly, it caused white frosting in the glue. So I bonded some wax paper on top, and that fixed the frosting problem
I don't think there is any particular brand, if you are going to glue on some wax paper. I cut strips of these applicators, and chop them down to a few inches long by maybe 3/4" wide. It is important to make sure that you don't let any CA dry on the wax paper. I will keep a piece of paper towel under my lathe, and wipe off the applicator after each coat, then after a few coats, trim it down so that I'm working with a new clean wax paper surface. Sometimes the wax paper might fray at the edges...I'll pick away any loose pieces before applying (otherwise it might end up in your finish, as I discovered the first couple times I applied this way).
Oh, also, I use a whiptail applicator on my GB bottles. I trim the blue down a little ways, so that it flows a little faster. In addition to applying with the lathe turning slower, I have also found that if I apply glue to the applicator, its gone in just a moment (now on the blank), and then the applicator starts grabbing and ruins the finish (maybe this is a cause of swirls?) So, I apply the glue slowly to the blank, and spread it with the applicator. I have found this works much better for me, than putting glue on the applicator. This goes for foam applicators, paper towel (blue or other), etc. The whiptail applicator is a flow controller...you trim it back till just the point where you get enough glue flow to coat the blank with a thin layer when spreading with the foam/waxpaper applicator, and nothing more. This ensures efficient use of the glue, while making sure you can spread the glue without the applicator grabbing, or any fibers from the applicator ending up in the finish, etc.
FWIW, I am still optimizing. I have been over-turning too much relative to my fittings. I know you make kitless pens, so this may not be an issue for you, but in my case if I overturn too much, then I have to build up a much thicker finish. My goal has been to overturn just a few thousandths, so I can apply only a thin finish of gluboost. If I have to build up a thicker finish (i.e. hundredths), then I definitely get some crusty glue buildup PAST the end of my blanks, onto the centers. If that happens, I'll take this simple tool I created out of an old butter knife, effectively turning it into a super thin parting tool. I'll just work down the excess glue buildup past the end of my blank with that. When I am done applying finish, I pop the blank off, and will trim any excess glue back with my disc sander. Now, for a kitless pen, I suspect this is probably not possible, and also probably not the same problem as what you are having. You say the end of the pen is where it occurs...I suspect that is where the body and cap roll over to the "finial" or "cabachon" part at the very ends? I could see applying a finish on the ends being more tricky, as you would be smearing the CA around a much smaller area. I wonder if using a foam applicator might help there, as its malleable and would wrap around the end of the pen nicely. I cannot say for sure, though, as I don't quite have the tools to make kitless pens, and haven't made any yet, so I don't have any direct experience here. It may simply be worth building up a bit more CA finish on the ends, then sanding them back and to shape, before final sanding and polish/buffing.
Oh, also, FWIW, buffing will IMO do a much, much better job taking care of any sanding scratches (if that's indeed what the issue is) than polishing. Even with some of the best polishes like Magic Juice, I have just never achieved the same level of quality of finish with polishing than with buffing. Buffing, thanks to the power behind the wheel and the very nature of the wheel material and compound, will very randomly brush over the finished surface of your blank, leaving you with a scratch free finish. You have a lot more opportunity to really work on an area if it still has some scratches as well.
Hippie3180
Member
That has happened too.
Hippie3180
Member
I value all of your helpful tips you are a wealth of information. Thank you.
I will look into the foam applicator situation. .
I don't have a buffing system yet, but I'm sure it will make a big difference in the end result.
wouldentu2?
Member
Use craft foam and reduce the amount you put on each time. Move the craft foam back and forth to ensure the CA lays flat, you can go back and forth until there is a little drag. All of the CA ends up on the blank none is absorbed into the foam.
darrin1200
Member
I have found that even when wet sanding without Gluboost, ieā¦"plastic" blanks, it is easy to impart radial swirls into the ends of my pens. The only way I have found to effectively eliminate these, is to stop the lathe and sand lightly (only a couple of strokes) across the end. This is done with each and every grit Up to at least the 3micron Zona paper.
Because the end is travelling so much faster, especially at the Center, this can be difficult if you are using a finish like Gluboost. It can only take a second to sand a hole into the finish and then you have to start over. This is why, when I do wooden finials, it takes so much longer to finish.
Just my observations, and how I do mine.
Your pens look awesome by the way. Are you putting Gluboost on all your pens, or just the wooden ones?
Because the end is travelling so much faster, especially at the Center, this can be difficult if you are using a finish like Gluboost. It can only take a second to sand a hole into the finish and then you have to start over. This is why, when I do wooden finials, it takes so much longer to finish.
Just my observations, and how I do mine.
Your pens look awesome by the way. Are you putting Gluboost on all your pens, or just the wooden ones?
RKB
Member
Ain't CA fun. So many options, so little time.