CA finish commonalities

[RunnerVince]

I've been reading up on CA finishes, and trying to figure out the commonalities from different methods. Experienced folks seem to have good luck with many brands, and using all thin CA, all medium, thin first then medium, medium first then thin, thin medium thin, and probably many other combinations. That leads me to believe the CA itself isn't a huge factor in success.

I think I'm seeing more experienced turners that use no accelerator, but enough that do, and in many different places in the process. So I don't think using/not using accelerator isn't a huge factor either.

I've seen anywhere from as few as 3 coats (usually medium) to 15+. Again, this doesn't seem to be a factor.

Sanding grits, timing, and methods vary widely with good results from many methods, and the same is true for polishing.

Same thing with applicators like blue shop towels or foam and application methods -- first on towel then pen, or straight on pen with towel to catch excess. Good results from both.

So if the type and brand of glue, sanding and polishing methods, number of coats, applicators, and use of accelerator vary widely, and people get good results, what's left?

It seems like pressure is the culprit. I've seen several discussions on one man's heavy is another man's light, so can we quantify slightly? I realize there's always going to be subjectivity, but I'd appreciate some descriptions of what people do. Barely touching? Scrubbing nasty dishes?

What are everyone's thoughts on how much pressure affects the final result?

 

[jttheclockman]

You are trying to add something that is not able to quantify. Just add it to the list of things you mentioned that everyone develops their own method. Weather that happens from trial and error or by reading past threads here of others trials and errors or combination. How hard one applies sandpaper or MM is not quantifiable(if that is a word) How heavy a person puts CA on and how many coats and what he applies it with are all factors in the many methods of finishing a pen. The brand CA and by the way not all CA's are the same, and weather he is wearing his lucky yellow socks when finishing are all irrelevant if it gets the results he or she is after. Good luck as you search for that perfect finish.

 

[FGarbrecht]

JT is right, no one is going to be able to answer your question. Try things (CA brand, pressure, application method, number of coats, thick or medium) based on the experience of others until you find something that works for you fairly consistently.
Editorial note: Despite CA giving a nice hard glossy finish that appeals to many, it isn't the only good way to finish a pen. Any well loved pen (used daily and dropped once in awhile) is going to start looking 'well used' after awhile with scratches and chips in the finish. Personally I prefer other ways to finish that preserves the feel and appearance of the wood. A nice BLO or waxed finish will need to be renewed once in awhile, but that is easier to do than trying to repair a scratched CA finish. Just my opinion. And if you are looking for the ultimate finish that will last centuries, look into urushi (but that introduces a whole new world of complexity and expense).

 

[MRDucks2]

The greatest variable is the human. All the methods are shared to give ideas what has helped others in your journey to a perfect CA finish for you.

I, for instance, can get a beautiful finish using 2 or 3 different combinations/methods. But, I am slower than dirt, so it takes me a while. My pursuit is in gaining efficiency in the process.

 

[Chasper]

I'll bite on the request for thoughts about pressure, but a few other data points about my method first.
My method: sand to 400-600, one coat medium no BLO followed by 5-7 coats thin with BLO, any brand CA works but don't let it get too hot between use, apply with Bounty select a size paper towel folded to 16 layers thick, apply CA to turned pen section--not to the paper towel, no accelerator, no micro mesh, remove from lathe and take to buffer while still hot. No cure time allowed between coats or after final coat/buffing. Ready to assemble immediately.

Pressure: I put lots of pressure on the paper towel when applying CA. Back and forth 30-50 times at high speed. The finish will look wet and shiny for the first 4-5 passes, get duller for the next 10-12, get more and more shiny for the next 10-12. After that the adhesive on the towel and pen part is curing, the final 15-20 passes is burnishing. The blank will be hot at that point. Before it cools I get it on the buffer with a superfine white compound.

 

[jttheclockman]

I'll bite on the request for thoughts about pressure, but a few other data points about my method first.
My method: sand to 400-600, one coat medium no BLO followed by 5-7 coats thin with BLO, any brand CA works but don't let it get too hot between use, apply with Bounty select a size paper towel folded to 16 layers thick, apply CA to turned pen section--not to the paper towel, no accelerator, no micro mesh, remove from lathe and take to buffer while still hot. No cure time allowed between coats or after final coat/buffing. Ready to assemble immediately.

Pressure: I put lots of pressure on the paper towel when applying CA. Back and forth 30-50 times at high speed. The finish will look wet and shiny for the first 4-5 passes, get duller for the next 10-12, get more and more shiny for the next 10-12. After that the adhesive on the towel and pen part is curing, the final 15-20 passes is burnishing. The blank will be hot at that point. Before it cools I get it on the buffer with a superfine white compound.

Well lets add this one to the ever growing list of ways to do a CA finish. Never heard this one.

 

[wouldentu2?]

I have found more pressure on the applicator fills the grain faster and it cures faster so less wait between coats. i almost never use accelerator and use the craft foam method.

 

[duanechun]

Another factor I've found that impacts my finish with CA is humidity.


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[RobS]

Another factor I've found that impacts my finish with CA is humidity.


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100% CA cures as a function of available humidity. Ever since I moved 8 miles from the coast to 2 miles from the coast, the same CA behaves entirely differently. Additionally dry arid environments will not take significantly longer to cure assuming they cure (depends on the specific formulation of CA).

 

[leehljp]

. . . I think I'm seeing more experienced turners that use no accelerator, but enough that do, and in many different places in the process. So I don't think using/not using accelerator isn't a huge factor either.

It isn't necessarily, but it is more problematic with new users. Accelerator in some cases pull in moisture; that happens more in humid areas than dry areas; It also happens more in swings from fall to winter or winter to spring. Cool humidity times introduces more humidity - and I think the heat caused when the accelerant is applied draws in moisture. Kinda like the reverse of a cold glass of water drawing moisture from humid warm air.

I've seen anywhere from as few as 3 coats (usually medium) to 15+. Again, this doesn't seem to be a factor.

You are correct, but someone trying to copy someone else's success often leads to some degree of failure. Also, I apply more depth in 2 or 3 coats than most people do in 15. It is not the number of coats that are applied, it is the depth of the total so that it matches the sizing of the fittings when checked with calipers.

Sanding grits, timing, and methods vary widely with good results from many methods, and the same is true for polishing.

One item left out that a few do - SHARP tools allow a finish so smooth that sanding is not necessary in many cases. - Especially when sanding will smear segmented woods or metallic content in segments.

Same thing with applicators like blue shop towels or foam and application methods -- first on towel then pen, or straight on pen with towel to catch excess. Good results from both.

So if the type and brand of glue, sanding and polishing methods, number of coats, applicators, and use of accelerator vary widely, and people get good results, what's left?

Practice, practice, practice!

It seems like pressure is the culprit. I've seen several discussions on one man's heavy is another man's light, so can we quantify slightly? I realize there's always going to be subjectivity, but I'd appreciate some descriptions of what people do. Barely touching? Scrubbing nasty dishes?

Since Pressure can't be perfectly quantified, it comes back to practice, practice, practice and let others interpret for themselves.

What are everyone's thoughts on how much pressure affects the final result?

You have brought up some great thoughts and they are very helpful in identifying points. Too often I see people in a hurry to get a pen done and they don't take the time to identify the processes. A fine pen is made and then the next two or three just don't come together with the finish and they wonder what is wrong. It is quite common to make several dozen pens and then there is the pen that the finish doesn't come together right, so it is removed and the same thing happens three or four times. THAT pen is put on the shelf and taken up again 6 months or a year later. That happens!

Thank you for your observations and questions. GREAT Thread.

 

[KenB259]

The thing that everyone has in common is everyone does it their own way. It's funny because it is such a simple concept. You apply ca to a small wooden cylinder. I say that tongue in cheek because this has got to be the most discussed topic. You just have to develop your own method and even beyond that your own " feel ". I use blue towels, they work well for me. I tried the foam a few times, every attempt ended up a huge mess. Not saying foam doesn't work, it just doesn't work for me. I don't really have to concentrate on applying a ca finish anymore, I recognize the "feel". I think sometimes we all overthink things. Just have fun and develop your method. You don't have to waste an expensive pen blank. Turn something round, finish it turn it down a little more and finish it again. I think you'll find once you settle in on a method that works for you, you'll wonder what all the fuss is about.


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[tomas]

Here's my devalued $0.02. I turn the blank as smooth as possible then sand with Abranet 120 - 600 at high speed. I spend more time on the finer grits. I wipe the blank liberally with DNA. I then apply 12 coats of Medium EZ-Bond CA using a Brawny paper towel. I have tried the craft foam without good results (probably a mental blockhead). I apply the CA at the slowest speed on my lathe putting a couple of drops on the Brawny and apply it laterally with 4-5 passes. I use EZ-Accelerator with a couple of spritzes between each coat. I then wet sand at high speed through all the Micro Mesh colors spending more time one the finer grits. I use the foam backed MM pads and keep them in a water filled container. This is the method I have used happily for about 12 years. I started using 20 coats of CA but settled on 12 (I got tired of taking my shoes off to keep count).

Ultimately, it boils down to what you are comfortable with and gives the results you want.

Tomas

 

[mick]

I still stand by my original tenet, it's socks people, yellow striped socks!

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[Curly]

Well there is always the lathe speed for application to consider. Fast so you end up with the CA on yourself or slower so it stays on the blank.

 

[mick]

Well there is always the lathe speed for application to consider. Fast so you end up with the CA on yourself or slower so it stays on the blank. [emoji848]

There's a fine line between the two but where's the fun in that!

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[Chasper]

I was making a presentation at MPG several years ago, back when it was in Illinois, and I said that if you were to put 50 pen turners together and ask them the proper way to apply CA, you would get 50 different answers and everyone of the pen turners would be ready to defend their method as the one and only best method. I didn't make that up, I had heard it earlier from someone. In between sessions someone came to me and said I had it wrong, 50 pen turners would have at least 75 methods of applying CA and they would believe that every one was the one and only proper method.

BTW, I apply CA with the lathe turning at 4,000 RPMs and I've never had a drop of CA splash on me