CA ....BLO/CA finishes

[mick]

I'm to the point I want to try one or other of the CA or BLO/CA finishes. I'm not really happy with the friction polish. It looks great at first ...but after handling the pen are any period of time it seems to dull. So...on a scale of 1 to 10 how difficult are the two CA finishes to apply and whats the advantages of one over the other. Or should I start with one and progress to the other? Any and all comments will be great appreciated !

 

[woodscavenger]

Which two? I can't think of two specific ones. I think there are about 10 different ways to do it.

 

[mick]

Scavenger...the 2 articles listed on the home page. One about a Straight CA finish ...and the other a BLO/CA finish. If I've never done one before ....which would be the best to start with?

 

[JimGo]

I agree with Woodscavenger...I've seen a lot of different takes on it, in addition to the CA and BLO/CA techniques discussed on the main page. I agree Mick that FP doesn't last long enough; you may also want to look at other finishes, too, in addition to CA. I've hit that point now, and am going to be doing some alternative/additional finishing techniques in my next set of pens.

 

[JimGo]

Sorry...had the window open before you replied. I like the BLO/CA technique better because the BLO really helps make the grain pop, wets any dust that's still in the blank, and IMHO gives a better shine than the plain CA technique. But I'm sure others, just about all of whom will have more experience than I, will weigh in.

 

[Kevin M]

Mick, I use the blo/ca and have great success with it. On the other hand the straight ca has not worked for me. At times the blo/ca comes off the lathe so smooth and glassy I wonder if I should even attempt to touch it, still looks wet! blo/ca = 2 ca = 8

 

[Daniel]

I have always used the plain CA finish method with a slight variation or actually additional step. I don't think I have ever really known the reason for the BLO/CA. But I have seen a lot of confusion and failure for newcomers since it has been introduced. suddenly a CA finish became difficult enough for many to give up on it.
I turn the blank to shape, then sand with 220 grit. I then slow down the lathe and while sanding with 300 grit paper I apply thin CA to the whole mess. this creates a slurry of CA and sawdust that fills the pours and small voids in the blank. when you are done you will have a very rough nasty looking blank. start resanding with 220 and work your way all the way to 4000 MM this puts as much polish on the actual wood as you will get. the final CA finish will go over this. then follow the directions in the CA finish article. except I use thick CA for the finish. the idea is to get a coat that you can sand and polish smooth. not to apply a smooth coat in the first place. having seen examples of both methods I still prefer the plain old CA finish.

 

[mick]

I see merits to both ways.....with and without BLO. Without knowing more I would think that in addition to popping the grain the BLO might help "float" the Ca on better? My main concern with either finish is this ......as a beginner .....which should I try first? (ie: which is easier for the novice) and also which woods should I be aware of that'll need extra care , such as olivewood needing to be wiped down denatured alky?

 

[Daniel]

Mick,
It's pretty good habit to wipe down all woods before the final finish. clean up around the lathe for those that are religious about flawless finishes as well.
some of the problem woods that come to mind right of the bat are olive wood, cocobolo, and ebony, te last has more problems than just being oily. and I pretty much avoid it. other woods have other problems such as snakewood, african blackwood and more, but those problems show up more in drilling or actually turning. actually I thinkit woudl be inpossible to give a complete rundown. this is something you will learn one piece of wood at a time. the olive and cocobolo both take fantastic finishes though. otherwise I usually find the harder and denser the wood the better it will finish. of course the CA Slurry step helps alot with the open grain woods.

 

[Gregory Huey]

IMHO the BLO/CA is a little easyer to work with than just straight CA. I suggest you work with both and find what work's best for you.

 

[MDWine]

Originally posted by Kevin M
... blo/ca = 2 ca = 8 ...

Kevin, what do you mean by your nomenclature above? Are you talking about number of coats for each?

 

[swm6500]

I am still experimenting with both finishes and have not decided yet which I prefer. Think I may try Daniels method to see what it is like.

 

[Kevin M]

To MDWine, the blo/ca = 2 and ca = 8 is the ease of application asked for in the original question. I find the blo/ca is an easy 2 on a 1-10 scale and the ca is harder to get right for me, so I give it an 8. I wet my papertowel with blo and hold under the blank, apply ca to the pinch point approx. 5-6 drops of thin ca and move my papertowel back and forth across the blank 3-4 times and that is it. 4-5 applications to both blanks takes about 5 minutes. Hope this helps.

 

[dubdrvrkev]

I have been putting the BLO on by itself and letting soak in/dry. Then putting CA over the top. I don't know if that is wrong or just different. I have had a few finishing issues but I think it was due to rushing the process a bit or due to using a FP after CA. Being a newbie I have thrown everything at a few pens just seeing what works and what doesn't.

 

[JimGo]

Kevin,
I think that's the best way to do it. See what works for you, and what doesn't, and move on from there. As a side note, I've been using FP after CA without problems (that I know of), but that's just been my experience, and I'm still a newbie too.

 

[PenPauli]

I like the ca finish but the ca\blo seems to finish a little easier. To me it creates less ripples with the ca. However I am pulling my hair out because I continue to get ghosting (light clouds) in the finish which I can't seem to get rid of no matter what I try. Arrrrggg. Please someone help me.

 

[youngturner]

I tried the CA/BLO for the first time today on a Rose Myrtle Pen I was really happy up until the stage of the last coat of CA/BLO but then I wasnt sure what to use for the final finish, i tried some shellawax cream and it didnt seem to do much. would like to know what you guys use as the final touch or do you just leave the final coat of CA/BLO as it is and just burnish it with paper towl???

 

[Gregory Huey]

I usually use Lou" wax or Ren wax,sometimes I will use Magic spray.

 

[youngturner]

i am looking for something that will give it a real shine would a friction polish work?

 

[Daniel]

for a real shine I use Micro Mesh. the final coats of wax seem to me to protect the finish not do much for increasing it. buffing also is a good idea.

 

[hockeyref]

Is there any negative to using myland friction polish after you have done the blo/ca and MM to 12,000?

 

[MDWine]

I tried my first CA/BLO finish yesterday.

It did not seem to build up like I have seen on other pens. I tried to build up three coats, but for some reason, it never got very thick. It looked more like one coat than three.

I was using "medium" CA, and followed the directions in the article. It just never seemed to build up.

I sanded the final "version" through all of the MM grits, and it was definitely smooth when I was done, but it was not the thick "plastic" coat that I've seen on other work (like Tom).

One observation, however, is that I'm going to be running through a BUNCH of sandpaper using CA! [!] In between coats, I sanded lightly with 400/600/800, and the CA loaded the paper like mad. I went through a bunch of my 400/600/800. (Which I did not have much of in the first place!)

So far, I am not impressed with my ability to use CA/BLO, I have a LOT to learn. I guess when I get home today, I'll strip the REN off of the blank, and see if I can another coat of CA on it, using the "thick" forumla. I'd like to get this process under my belt for a set of pens I'm working on this week!

I'll keep ya posted!

 

[woodscavenger]

Depending on the wood I sand to as fine a grit as looks appropriate. I use MM to 12000 for stabilized stuff. I sand to final dimensions then apply a good thick coat of BLO with the lathe off then spin it up and pinch it and rub back and forth. At this point my paper towel has some BLO in it. I then squirt a bead of medium of thick CA across my 1" wide folded towel. I apply the glue to the spinning blank as a rub back and forth. In a few seconds it turns a little white/dull and then I add more pressure and rub aback and forth vigorously. (careful it can get hot) Keep this up until you see it change from dull to glossy. My lights are directly above my lathe so the clarity of the light reflection helps me see if there is an area that is still dull and needs more rubbing.

This takes less than a minute. I do put my shop vac wide head under the blank so keep the fumes at bay.

I repeat this step as many times as I want. Usually only 4-5 coats on each blank depending on whether I used thick or medium. I think the BLO in the towel is enough to give a smooth application so I have gone away from alternating.

I think that a little CA stays on the towel and dries in a curved shape like the blank I polished. I think this acts as a fine buffing agent for the blank. I have rarely every sanded back over what I just did. I do not go for the super thick coat. If I want that I spray it with polyacrylic spray. I have learned that if I repeat BLO too often that I will occasionally get a splotchy finish. Under the light the BLO will look like a great coat then when it dries in a few days it leaves the wood naked if you didn't put enough coats on.

Rarely on some woods it acts as an accelerant and I get a rough finish which I resand (cussing the whole time) and start over but this is less than 1 in 20 pens.

good luck.

 

[RussFairfield]

If we do two things, CA glue can be sanded dry without clogging the sandpaper.

1. Make sure it is cured. CA isn't as "instant" as we would like to believe. Give it a few minutes to cure before sanding. A cured CA should produce a white powder sanding dust and not clog the paper.

CA cures harder and sands easier if we DO NOT use an accelerator. If we want to speed things up, wait a full minute (60 seconds) before using the accelerator.

2. Slow down the speed for sanding the CA. Use 300 RPM, and not 3000. CA glue is a plastic, and as such it is not as tolerant of heat as a piece of wood.

The alternative is always wet-sanding a CA glue finish.

 

[MDWine]

Once I've sanded down to 320, I don't sand while turning any more, I sand "with the grain" without turning at all.

I had too many circles to sand out the other way, and this is just as fast, and produces a smoother surface for me.

 

[JimGo]

Michael, we'll have to arrange a time for you to come over and try BLO/CA with me (or vice-versa). I don't have the same problems; maybe if I watch you, I can help you figure out what's going on. FWIW, I do basically the same thing as Shane (WoodScavenger).

 

[woodscavenger]

Jim, I am flattered[] Since you outpost me are you sure that I don't do it the same way as you?[]

 

[JimGo]

Shane,
The only reason I outpost you is that I'm inside chatting while you're out there turning! [V]

 

[mick]

Since my original question about CA vs CA/BLO finishes I've done a lot of practicing and finishing and refinishing and have come up with a finish that works for me with almost all the woods I've tried it on. Once I've reached final dimensions on my blanks I work up through my MM to 12000. Most woods will have a rally nice shine to em! Then I fold a paper towel into a pad like mentioned in the CA/BLO article, wet the end with BLO, apply it to one blank and rub in well. While still holding the pad to the blank I apply CA to the point where the pad and blank meet, rub back and forth over the blank til I "feel" the CA start to stiffen. I cut the end off the pad and reapply BLO to the new end. I repeat the process with the next blank then use another pad to buff and burnish the first blank then the second. At this point theres a nice shine over the blanks. I rub this out with MM from 4000 thru 12000. I repeat the CA/BLO/MM steps as many as 4 or 5 time depending on how much the wood needs "filling in". After this I apply Deft spray lacquer while the lathe is spinning at its lowest speed. 3 very light coats works much better than one heavy one. I let this set or harden for a few minutes and use craft paper .....or a brown paper bag, or sack, depending on what part of the country you're from......lol. This softens somewhat the very bright shine from the lacquer. All in all I'm very satisfied with this finish, but as always willing to try another if something better comes along. As always you guys have been a big help, willing to answer my questions, give advice and generally helping out when needed. Thanks again!!

 

[Old Griz]

Mic, sounds like you have a system that works for you... but one thing you do disturbs me... I have used lacquer for a lot of projects and the one thing I have learned is that you need to let the lacquer cure.. even 3 thin coats should be allowed to cure for at least 2-3 days or longer before buffing out...