Blowing blanks off the tube

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

Jdubfudge

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
85
Location
Kailua, Hawaii (Oahu) Zip 96734
2377963f5daf964015cc524d8eb0d617.jpg


So I blew two blanks off the tube tonight and I'd like a little bit of help before I try. The wood is from the USS Missouri that I got right from the deck, so I'd like to try to actually get some more pens from what I have. From what I can tell it comes down to four things: technique, tool, glue up, or the wood.

My technique: I'm new to this so, but I have been trying to not be aggressive. Taking a tiny bit off at a time, keeping the tool square, and then sanding to the final shape.

The tool: I have a carbide one that I bought from PSI, so it should be sharp. Ihve turned about seven pens with it so far and haven't rotated the tip yet. How many turns do people normally get before they have to rotate/change the tip?

The glue up. This is where I think I went the most wrong. Ihve noticed the last few times Ihve drilled, it seems there is a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of wiggle room for the pen tube. I'm using PSI instaflex +. I put it on the tube, rotated it in, then let it sit for about four hours before I started turning.

The wood. I'm using teak from the Mighty Mo. The newer stuff is only about 3/4 inch thick so I had to double it up because I had to plane off the rot. Once planed, I glued some koa to it for band and to make it look like I wasn't trying to hide the fact I laminated the wood. On one side, I did the wood glue/hot iron method. On the other, I glued and clamped and left over night. I have been able to get a few pens so far, but right now I'm 2 for 4 and I really don't like those odds.

So my questions. I take it that while my technique will probably get better, it will in time so that can't be fixed overnight. For my tool, should it still be sharp? For the glue. If there are tiny gaps in the pen tube, so I use gorilla glue or epoxy as opposed to CA? For the wood. Should I stabilize it?

This is wood how I got it.

fcdda997a91f41ff0dcffa24f92625a2.jpg


This is it after I planed it.

fac6fd00fa1fe52446471d5d9ddf518a.jpg

61fda3e314afc3dbf4d525b829955de1.jpg


And this is it doubled up.
84f88800f85e7516f1385667a98a2c3c.jpg






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

Pat Keefe

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
95
Location
Towradgi Australia
Ok, let's start at the start. Laminating timber, glue and leave clamped for at least 24 hours, longer the better. Drilling, drill a pilot hole first. For a 7mm hole, drill at 6mm then ream out with a 7 mm. This will give you a more accurate hole. Glue the tube in, Gorilla grip is good and leave for at least 24 hours. Turning, I personally use a gouge and a skew. I have never had any luck with scraping. Soft hands, soft cuts and turn at the highest speed you are comfortable with. For me that's 3900. You can try to turn the scraper to 45°, drop the handle to 45° and shear scrape. If you doubt that the edge is "sharp", rotate the head to a fresh edge.

Beautiful board of wood.
 

1080Wayne

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2006
Messages
3,340
Location
Brownfield, Alberta, Canada.
Cross cut grain is much more difficult to do , particularly in a very thin section . You can`t afford to have any gap between the tube and wood , so a gap filling adhesive such as Gorilla glue or equivalent or an epoxy is a must . Tools also need to be razor sharp , or be prepared to use coarse sandpaper once you get close . No idea how sharp PSI`s carbide is , As with any tool edge , lifespan varies with the material being cut . You will not get seven pens when turning fire pit ash , but you should with soft woods . Don`t have much teak experience , but my guess would be that stabilization wouldn`t help a lot .

Very nice grain in that piece . I would cross cut it also .
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,084
Location
NJ, USA.
Not sure what you have done already and what you want to do. First and foremost start with the gluing of the pieces. They need to be dead flat to each other so that there is no airgaps when cut. Next I would use acetone to clean both boards before gluing. They are oily woods. I would use TitebondII for the glue up. I would clamp or at least weigh down with efficient weights to keep flat and let dry 24 hours. (never rush a project or you do it twice) I am gathering from the looks of the boards they are not thick enough to get a pen blank out of, thus the gluing.

Now cut your blanks to size. Now here is where you loose stability because you will drill right down the glue line but you can compensate for this if you use epoxy and for that I suggest a good structural epoxy like System III T88. Best on the market in my opinion. You need to secure the bond to the tube and also reinforce the seam and epoxy will do this.

After 24 hours again then proceed to dress the blank to the tube and start turning. Now if you are using a scraping tool such as a carbide cutter in a scrapping position you may have a tendency to get a catch where that seam is, thus blowing the blank apart. Take a look at the ones you did blow apart and see where they broke. To avoid this you can use the carbide cutter as you would a skew in a shearing cut as opposed to a planing cut.

That is my take on this situation and I am sure others will chime in. Good luck.
 

Skie_M

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
2,737
Location
Lawton, Ok
To add to John's great advice ....


There's no shame at all in treating a fragile blank with care! Once you get down somewhat close to the bushings, switch over to sandpaper to take you the rest of the way. You'll get your pens done more slowly, but have a much higher chance for success!


Also, looking at what's left of that blank on the brass barrel ....

I see that it's crosscut, as has been mentioned ... stabilizing it would help it a TON.

Plus .. there's VERY LITTLE GLUE on that barrel. I can see a gap between the wood and the barrel in the picture, too, where there's no glue! I would use either gorilla glue or epoxy for that glue-up, for extra strength. Make sure your drill bit is sharp and you are drilling dead center on the lathe! :)


Last little thing ... Carbide tools can be sharpened! (Use a diamond faced sharpening surface, lay the carbide bit upside down -flat- on the surface, and rub it around about 30 times on 600 grit or better surface.) For the multibit system, use a diamond faced wheel or cutting disc mounted on a flat block that you've trued up on the lathe, and use the SIDE of the disc to grind the tip of your carbide bit - keep the bevel consistent as you turn or orient the bit!
 
Last edited:

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
15,913
Location
Canada
I haven't read the other suggestions so might be duplicating.

The wood looks delicate and seems to be crosscut (which makes it even more delicate).

Also, it looks like the glue on the brass tube is not very thick, maybe did not adhere.
Sometimes the kit manufacturer suggests drilling a brass tube hole size which is bigger than necessary ... the result is there is a gap between brass tube and the wood which does not get filled properly with glue. . As a precaution, I drill the hole just a shade smaller than suggested. Of course this means you have to have a whole range of drill sizes to choose from and a reliable table of drill sizes to refer to.

I bit the bullet early on in my pen career and bought complete sets of fractional drills, metric drills, letter-size drills, and number-size drills. . cost me about $500 but I have never been sorry. . I am now starting to buy fractional metric size drills in the most likely-to-be-requried sizes.

My comments may not apply at all to your situation but I just offer them FWIW.

Your problem may in fact be a combination of things.

I certainly know the feeling of not wanting to waste good and precious (and often expensive) blank material.

Good luck and I hope you find success.
 

JimB

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,683
Location
West Henrietta, NY, USA.
As others have mentioned, to me it looks like poor glue up. I don't see any glue on the tube and it looks like there is a gap between the remaining wood and tube.

You say you apply the glue to the tube but you don't say how you do it. You need complete coverage. I put a puddle of glue on wax paper and roll the tube in it. Then I insert the tube using a twisting motion. Excess glue will squeeze out the end back onto the wax paper.

I'm not familiar with that CA but you need to be using thick to fill gaps, not medium or thin if you are going to use ca.

Also, as mentioned you may need to drill a different size, smaller, hole. The instructions with many kits recommend a drill bit size but that is not always the best choice. Like many folks, I have a 118 bit set. Mine is from harbor freight. It allows me to use a bit that is just a tiny, tiny, tiny size different than what is recommended.

If it makes you feel any better, we have all had the experience you are having.
 

randyrls

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
4,823
Location
Harrisburg, PA 17112
From the photo, it appears there isn't any glue on the tube. The tube must be scuffed so the glue will stick. CA does not fill gaps well and you must use more than enough of it. A polyurethane glue like Gorilla Glue will work better. I believe this may be teak. If so, run a cotton swab thru the drilled blank with acetone on it to remove oils from the inside of the drilled hole before gluing in the tube.

Carbide tools tend to put more stress on a blank than a HSS tool like a skew or gouge. The cross grain makes the grain weak and it isn't very thick to start with. You may want to use 50 or 80 grit sandpaper to size the blank.

+1 for stabilizing.

+1 for drilling the hole in a sliding slip fit.
 
Last edited:

jleiwig

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,860
Location
Monroe, Ohio, USA.
Have you taken a caliper and measured the diameter of the tube? My guess it's not exactly what it's state at. Also measure your drill bit as well because those tolerances aren't that great either. Everyone else already got you covered on the other stuff. You may also want to coat the ends of the blank in epoxy as well to help it hold together.
 

Jdubfudge

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
85
Location
Kailua, Hawaii (Oahu) Zip 96734
Thank you everyone for the information. I think I will try again with some T88 epoxy and then drill the holes a tiny bit smaller and ream it out to the correct dimension. For the tool, right now, I'll just rotate it for these blanks for now.

I'll post more photos of the finished products once I'm done with the trying again.
 

schapekop0701

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2016
Messages
7
Location
Belgium
Wood from the deck of the USS Missouri waw

Did you stabilize the wood?
Wood that has been treated (mistreated) like that needs to be stabilized.
It has cracks you can't see.
I had the same with a peace of ebony that was 120 years old and came from a Congolese statue.
All went well until the last mm.
It bursted into peaces.
Now i'm using epoxy and a friend stabilized the wood with a very thin epoxy and a vacuum pot.
 

JohnU

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,925
Location
Ottawa, Illinois
What works for me is...when I epoxy tubes in blanks I always start with a small stick like a bamboo skewer and put some epoxy on it and then insert it in the drilled hole and smear it on in a rotation working from the middle of the blank out to each end. Then I roll the tube in it and insert, turning it as I go. This way I make sure there is epoxy on both the tube and the blank. It might be overkill but I haven't had any issues with blow outs.
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,084
Location
NJ, USA.
What works for me is...when I epoxy tubes in blanks I always start with a small stick like a bamboo skewer and put some epoxy on it and then insert it in the drilled hole and smear it on in a rotation working from the middle of the blank out to each end. Then I roll the tube in it and insert, turning it as I go. This way I make sure there is epoxy on both the tube and the blank. It might be overkill but I haven't had any issues with blow outs.


I do the same John and it has worked for me for years. No such thing as too much glue:biggrin:
 
Top Bottom