Beale Buff or micromesh?

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mmayo

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My choice is the Beale buff. I've used micromesh in the past. I hated the water near or on the lathe, cleaning and replacing the pads and the TIME needed to do a good job.

These pens were sanded to 400 grit and buffing took 30 seconds each using the Tripoli and white diamond wheels.

Just sayin' you might consider it.
 

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BULLWINKLE

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I've always used micromesh. I place wax paper over the lathe bed to prevent the water from getting on the lathe or even worse into the motor.
 

moke

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When I was using Micromesh, I bought some large magnetic covers from heat vents at a big box and trimmed them to fit..they were quick easy and stayed in place...I got the idea on here, but I don't remember who.
I have used a beall buff for years now and never looked back.....like mark said the time saved is enormous.
 

PreacherJon

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I use micro-mesh. I do everything dry... slap them a couple times and move on. I've got the same set of pad for the last 10 years. Don't have a problem with them and they shine very nicely.
 

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PatrickR

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Not trying to cause issues. I just thought back to my micro mesh days and was very pleased to have gone past that method.
Agreed. I have cut my finishing time at least by half since using buffing. sand dry with 3 grits lengthwise then buff and done.
 

Bope

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I don't understand how the buffing system is any faster than micromesh. You still have to sand the finish to flatten then you buff. Don't you need to remove it from whatever you were using to hold the blank while sanding onto what ever you are using to hold it while buffing? Once I sand the finish flat it stays on my lathe and 5-10 seconds with each micromesh and the same with one grit of polish and I am done. Really doesn't take more than a minute or two after the finish is flattened and all done at one machine.
 

RunnerVince

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I don't understand how the buffing system is any faster than micromesh. You still have to sand the finish to flatten then you buff. Don't you need to remove it from whatever you were using to hold the blank while sanding onto what ever you are using to hold it while buffing? Once I sand the finish flat it stays on my lathe and 5-10 seconds with each micromesh and the same with one grit of polish and I am done. Really doesn't take more than a minute or two after the finish is flattened and all done at one machine.
I can't speak for buffing, but I did a test this week where I skipped the micromesh and went straight to the polish. Sanded my finish flat using 600-grit paper, then went straight to Dr. Kirk's Scratch Free on a blue shop towel. I couldn't tell a difference between it, a pen done with the full micromesh, and another where I skipped the micromesh but used the Dr. Kirk's micro magic (3-step polish) in addition to the Scratch Free.

Despite it not being a huge time sink, I'm still happy to skip the micromesh. Any time savings is a time savings. Not to mention I can clear out some space in my workbench drawers, have that much less to worry about putting away afterward, don't have to replace pads, etc.

Has anyone ever done a side-by-side comparison of buffing vs. polishing?
 

PreacherJon

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I can't speak for buffing, but I did a test this week where I skipped the micromesh and went straight to the polish. Sanded my finish flat using 600-grit paper, then went straight to Dr. Kirk's Scratch Free on a blue shop towel. I couldn't tell a difference between it, a pen done with the full micromesh, and another where I skipped the micromesh but used the Dr. Kirk's micro magic (3-step polish) in addition to the Scratch Free.

Despite it not being a huge time sink, I'm still happy to skip the micromesh. Any time savings is a time savings. Not to mention I can clear out some space in my workbench drawers, have that much less to worry about putting away afterward, don't have to replace pads, etc.

Has anyone ever done a side-by-side comparison of buffing vs. polishing?
For 10 years my micro-mesh has worked. One-time buy. With any polish in a bottle... you are going to run out. Cost can be a factor as well.
 

mmayo

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I don't understand how the buffing system is any faster than micromesh. You still have to sand the finish to flatten then you buff. Don't you need to remove it from whatever you were using to hold the blank while sanding onto what ever you are using to hold it while buffing? Once I sand the finish flat it stays on my lathe and 5-10 seconds with each micromesh and the same with one grit of polish and I am done. Really doesn't take more than a minute or two after the finish is flattened and all done at one machine.
I use 12-16 coats of CA per blank. I agree that there are surface characteristics that I need to smooth out before buffing. I do that on the lathe with minimal radial sanding at 500 rpm and the lateral sanding until the surface is dull evenly. I DO NOT use medium CA as those ridges are too deep for me. I use thin 5 cps CA then thin 50 cps CA called pen finish by EZ Bond. The sanding takes me 10-15 seconds. I never use micromesh and have given mine away.
 

millsy54

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I use micromesh with wood and kirinite blanks, and it is a good finish. But when i make my own blanks from alumalite, the finish is so dull.
I cant understand this. even plastic, and friction polish does not work. I also use yorkshire grit coarse and fine.
Any advise or help would be very appreciated.
 

derekdd

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I've always used micromesh. I place wax paper over the lathe bed to prevent the water from getting on the lathe or even worse into the motor.
Yeah, I use an old t-shirt which works well.

Still using micro mesh and a plastic polish but it's interesting to hear the other process.
 

keithbyrd

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I used several CA products and landed on Mercury CA about 5 years ago. I use 4-6 coats of thin and 4 coats of medium. As Mark said above - the ridges are a bit big but I like how it fills. I sand only with 400 grit, 4/00 steel wool at 3500 rpm to get the fine scratches out. I used micro mesh for a long time but did not like water on wood products! So I did more of a moist sand not a wet sand. My last step was to polish with Hut's Ultra and Renaissance wax. About 6 months ago I tried buffing again and was surprised with the results. I quit using the micro mesh and use the Beale buffing wheels with brown (Tripoli) and white (White Diamond) compounds followed by Hut's Ultra and Renaissance Wax. I am happy with the ease and speed with which I can put at least as good if not better finish on the pens.
 

byounghusband

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Great questions and answers. I use both, depending on the materials.
Wood is sanded to 600 grit and then I do a Boiled Linseed Oil/Med CA Glue to finish. Don Ward taught me that finish more years ago than I would like to admit. Then they go to the Beall wheels. All three in fact. Tripoli, White Diamond and Carnauba Wax.

Resin, hybrid and other "not wood" materials get paper sanded to 400 or 600 and then all the way through Micro Mesh, 1500 to 12000 wet sanded. Sometimes, I will even do the BLO/CA finish on them, but not always. I guess that depends on my mood.
 

jrista

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The BLO doesn't interfere with the CA? Do you have to apply, give it time to cure, then apply the CA finish?
You mix the two. A bit of oil first onto the applicator, then ca onto that dollop of oil. Then you apply to the pen.

I've experimented with this a few times. I think it may depend on the kind of CA you use, just how well it works or not. I'm not sure its a good combination if you are using GluBoost, but StickFast seems to do well, maybe Mercury Flex as well.

The interesting thing about this, is the CA and the BLO cross-link with each other, producing an entirely different kind of polymer than either creates on their own. The BLO lengthens the open time of the glue, so you have a bit more time to apply, and you can really work it in.

The feel of the finish is different than just CA as well. It feels a bit more rubbery, maybe, and its not as hard. This is another factor, in fact...a BLO+CA finish is NOT as hard. In testing, it doesn't scratch quite as easily, but I've found that its not hard to dent or gouge a BLO+CA finish, so if you want the most durable finish possible, its probably not what you are looking for. I will say, though...the FEEL of the finish, is really nice. Has a very....luxurious feel to it!
 

jrista

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My choice is the Beale buff. I've used micromesh in the past. I hated the water near or on the lathe, cleaning and replacing the pads and the TIME needed to do a good job.

These pens were sanded to 400 grit and buffing took 30 seconds each using the Tripoli and white diamond wheels.

Just sayin' you might consider it.
I'm a big fan of buffing now. In my experience, which granted is only a couple of years or so here, if you want a truly clear, crisp, scratch-free (at least as far as human eyes can see) finish...buffing is the way to go.

I also use the Beall buffing system, although I bought some additional wheels and use white diamond, blue rouge, and then an unloaded cotton wheel for final cleaning (just to get any fluff or remnant rouge compound off). Best way to get exceptionally clear, scratch-free results.

Recently, I started using my Magic Juice polish again. I bought some about a year ago, and forgot I had it. It does a great job of giving you a brilliant shine....but, it does not to nearly as good a job at removing the fine scratches that you can see in the right light. So far, the only way I've been able to eliminate those final ultra fine scratches is to buff.

Another nice thing about buffing, is it is really easy to focus on certain areas that might need a bit more work. With polishing, that's harder to do. Possible, but harder for sure. So I'm with you...best way to get the clearest finish is to buff. Definitely worth the investment. You can pick up the Beall 3-wheel buffing system for around $100, although Woodcraft just recently had it on sale for $80... IMO, one of the best investments you can make for taking your pencraft to the next level.
 

RunnerVince

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I'm a big fan of buffing now. In my experience, which granted is only a couple of years or so here, if you want a truly clear, crisp, scratch-free (at least as far as human eyes can see) finish...buffing is the way to go.

I also use the Beall buffing system, although I bought some additional wheels and use white diamond, blue rouge, and then an unloaded cotton wheel for final cleaning (just to get any fluff or remnant rouge compound off). Best way to get exceptionally clear, scratch-free results.

Recently, I started using my Magic Juice polish again. I bought some about a year ago, and forgot I had it. It does a great job of giving you a brilliant shine....but, it does not to nearly as good a job at removing the fine scratches that you can see in the right light. So far, the only way I've been able to eliminate those final ultra fine scratches is to buff.

Another nice thing about buffing, is it is really easy to focus on certain areas that might need a bit more work. With polishing, that's harder to do. Possible, but harder for sure. So I'm with you...best way to get the clearest finish is to buff. Definitely worth the investment. You can pick up the Beall 3-wheel buffing system for around $100, although Woodcraft just recently had it on sale for $80... IMO, one of the best investments you can make for taking your pencraft to the next level.
Hrmm. I've been on the fence with buffing ever since I started turning pens. The few janky attempts I've made (a small buffer on a dremel, which turns way too fast and will damage not just your finish, but your actual blank) were a disaster. But I'm thinking now that ultimately this might be the way to go. Seems like it's faster, and those who've switched from MM or polish generally claim a better final finish.

Can anyone comment on the money side of things? I've generally had to replace my MM pads about once every 6-12 months, depending on how much I'm turning. I can get several years from a single purchase of their 3x4 pads. But with MM, I still have to polish, and the polish is about $30 per hundred pens. How often do you have to replace your wheels, and how long does a stick of the buffing compound last?

Is buffing any cheaper in the long run, and if not, are the differences in the final product worth the extra money?
 

byounghusband

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The BLO doesn't interfere with the CA? Do you have to apply, give it time to cure, then apply the CA finish?
After the blank is sanded, I wipe with DNA to remove ALL dust.
then, I take Blue Shop paper towels from HD and take a sheet, fold in half twice and tear 5 or 6 applicator from that.
With the blank spinning, I apply a small drop of BLO on the applicator pad and rub in on the spinning blank. Then I use Medium CA (Mercury M300M is my current) As the blank is spinning< hold the glue bottle on top of the blank and the applicator under the blank and squeeze glue out as I move the bottle from head stock to tail stock. the applicator runs underneath spreading the CA. The CA actually comes ot of the bottle like a capillary action as I move it. One pass with the CA and I rub the applicator back and forth and basically polish the finish for approx. 30 seconds.
I do this three times. That's it. No sanding, no accelerator, no multiple coats of thin, then Medium, etc. This takes me less that 3 minutes and I am ready to go to the Beall Wheels.

Don Ward mentioned to me recently that the Russ Farfield had a slightly different/improved method. I have not used it yet, but I continue to use what is working for me.

I might do a video sometime, but I'm old school and some people might freak out to see that I turn, sand and finish using the same bushing on the mandrel. o_O
 

jrista

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Hrmm. I've been on the fence with buffing ever since I started turning pens. The few janky attempts I've made (a small buffer on a dremel, which turns way too fast and will damage not just your finish, but your actual blank) were a disaster. But I'm thinking now that ultimately this might be the way to go. Seems like it's faster, and those who've switched from MM or polish generally claim a better final finish.

Can anyone comment on the money side of things? I've generally had to replace my MM pads about once every 6-12 months, depending on how much I'm turning. I can get several years from a single purchase of their 3x4 pads. But with MM, I still have to polish, and the polish is about $30 per hundred pens. How often do you have to replace your wheels, and how long does a stick of the buffing compound last?

Is buffing any cheaper in the long run, and if not, are the differences in the final product worth the extra money?
A buffing wheel will last you for ages. You might want to pick up a $15 buffing "wheel rake" which will help you clean and trip your wheels to keep them working well. But you shouldn't have to replace wheels often (I've never replaced mine yet...I did buy some new ones, to experiment with different compounds.) Each type of compound you use, WILL need its own wheel. You never want to mix buffing compounds (i.e. rouge). I picked up a package of two 8" cotton loose leaf wheels for $25 recently. So around $12 each. They aren't expensive. You can get flannel, cotton, muslin (softer cotton), I've actually even seen a blue jeans wheel out there. There are other types, some sewn, some loose leaf, some have other structure. In any case, they are generally not very expensive. Once you have them, a set of wheels should last ages.

The buffing compounds themselves, if you are JUST doing pens, should also last you for a long time. I started with these tiny little bars, and I've gone through a few...but, they were actually probably more expensive than just buying a full sized "brick" of the stuff. I just didn't know back when I started. A full size bar of tripoli, for example, will cost you around $5. A full size BAR....yeesh, that might well last you a lifetime, if the only thing you are doing is buffing pens. Buffing larger things, like bowls, vases, that kind of stuff, you might use more of the compound. But pens...you won't use much. You might need a few types. Trip, white diamond, blue rouge. These are the ones I primarily use. If you buy the Beall buffing system, you'll get a full bar of trip, white diamond, and some carnauba wax as well (I NEVER wax my pens with natural waxes...just dulls the finish!!) If you spent say $20 on buffing compounds, it should last you years if all you do is pens. So, should be very low cost.

You will need some kind of setup to buff. The Beall 3-Wheel Buffing System is a kit that contains a #2 MT Mandrel, three wheels, and three bars of compounds. Its around $110 normally, although you can find it on sale. This works with the lathe. You can also repurpose a grinding wheel, as a two-wheel setup. Normally, I use White Diamond and Blue Rouge, and then have a separate "clean" wheel that isn't loaded with any compound, to clean off any residue from the prior two buff stages. That doesn't need to be done with a wheel, so if you have an extra grinding wheel somewhere, and don't use it, or can find one cheap used, then that will work just as well. You might need to pick up some arbor adapters to use the buffing wheels on a grinder, but those aren't very expensive ($20 maybe?)

Buffing shouldn't be expensive. That said, it doesn't eliminate sanding. FWIW, I still sand. I use Norton 400-1200 grit on resins and CA. Sometimes just 400, 600 and 800. I use small little strips...maybe 3/4" x 1 1/2" or thereabouts. So, a sheet of sandpaper lasts a lot of pens. The cost is utterly trivial.

I then also use Zona paper. I then buff out the final scratches from the 1 micron Zona. I am extremely efficient with my Zona paper. Its, oh, $10-12 a package, a package contains 6 grits in 11x8.5" sheets, and I use a set of 3/4" x 3/4" squares of Zona for each pen. Sometimes, I might use more green and white zona. Still, small three quarter inch squares. Those sheets last a LOT of pens. In fact, by my calculation, a single package of Zona paper should last 150 pens, or more. To your $30 cost, at that rate, three packages of Zona paper would sand 450 pens. In essence, a negligible cost!

In fact, with both sanding and buffing, in the long run, its a negligible cost. Per pen, its cents, really.
 
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