Any objection???

[Brooks803]

To make my life a lot easier I'd like to generate two threads in here (the planning side of the bash) with all my contest entries fully visible.

My main reason is to make my life ALOT easier when it comes to the end of the contests and I can ask to have the thread moved to the public thread.

Since all entries are not to be seen (with the makers name) until the contest is over it'd save hours of time if I could do it as the entries roll in.

Does this sound like something I could be allowed to do?

 

[Displaced Canadian]

Sounds reasonable. Also that way when you set up the poll we can make sure it can't be seen before everybody else sees it.

 

[toddlajoie]

Sounds like a great idea... may have to steal it myself...

Wasn't there an issue with the polls not being hidden for users on ForumRunner? I remember seeing a thread about it, but did not follow it at the time... Now it looks like I probably should look it up and read up...

 

[jeff]

That's a good idea. I do it all the time.

Remember: poll results are not hidden on Forumrunner.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Only one question/issue...are all the folks who have access to this forum prevented from entering any of the contests? If so, then your idea would be good. If not, then it may not be a good idea since someone could say that folks with access here had an unfair advantage.

 

[mbroberg]

I am all for anything that makes life easier!

Curtis,

Planners cannot enter the contest they are involved planning or running. They are also not allowed to enter the Trivia Contest or any other contest for which they had prior access to the answers by virtue of them having access to the planning forum.

I can't think of any advantage anyone would have by seeing a poll being constructed that will eventually determine winners by membership vote. However, I've never claimed to have all possibilities considered. Would someone have an advantage by seeing the contents of a poll prior to it being voted upon by the membership? If so, how?

 

[MesquiteMan]

I may have misread it but I think Jonathan was planning to create a thread with pictures as they come in. If so, then someone in the planning forum would indeed have an advantage over other members who did not have a chance to see the pictures. That is the reason photos are not posted in the forum before the contest is over. If no photos are planned to be posted, then disregard my concern.

 

[mbroberg]

I don't think you misread it. My understanding is that photos will be posted in the planning forum and will be visible to the planners, who have access to the planning forum, prior to the poll going public. My question is, how does the visibility of the photos to the Bash Planners create an unfair advantage to the people who entered the contest.

I suppose what you are thinking is that if a Bash Planner enters the contest and is able to see his photo in a poll prior to the start of voting he will know what his competition is, know where he stands, may be able to do some behind the scenes lobbying, etc. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Brooks803]

Correct. I would be posting pictures of the pens along with their descriptions and makers name.

I understand that the people that are allowed access to this "secret" forum would be able to see everything that's posted. The way I see it is that if we're trusting enough to go off the honor system for contests like the beginners contest the we should trust that the members that could see this thread wouldn't use it to their advantage. They'd have to click on the thread to see anything, if they can resist that temptation then I personally don't see an issue. Not to mention you can always see the # of views to the thread.

One of my biggest reasons for wanting to do this is that i'll be out of town right at the end of the bash. I'll have my laptop, but it would just be simpler to have the majority of the work already done once the contest ends.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Why are we not posting the photos in the general forum ahead of time? One of the reasons that was brought up during the post bash dialogue last year is that by posting photos in the general forum as they come in it could influence whether or not someone entered a contest. If it is not an issue, then the photos need to be posted in the general forum as they come in. Otherwise, if it comes out after the bash that the bash planner who entered a contest was able to see the photos that no one else was able to see, then it will cause a stir and rightfully so. Does it give an unfair advantage? I don't know. It could be said that they were able to see the photos and saw what was in already and based their entry on that information. Again, information that only planning folks have access to. Even if, in your wisdom, you do not think it gives an unfair advantage, it could be perceived as such and is something that, in my opinion, we should stay completely away from.

If the amount of time it takes to create the poll has anything to do with photos and uploading, I can help with that. All the photos are already on the server that the form is on. Photos do not need to be uploaded again on IAP. I can send you a spreadsheet when the contest ends or you ask for it, that has the member info as well as the URL to the photo. All you have to do then is copy and past the URL.

I too am all for anything that makes things easier. However, after being a moderator for the past 7 or 8 years, I know how folks are. I have been accused of favoritism from every angle. Allowing only certain people who are going to enter a contest to see the pics ahead of time is opening a can of worms unless you try to keep it a secret that they had access. I am sorry but I will not stand for that. It all has to stay above the board or risk loosing all integrity of the management of IAP.

 

[MesquiteMan]

And Jonathan, it is not about us trusting anyone. It is about perceived advantage. I would trust anyone here. However, some in the general membership may not feel that way. Again, I have been accused of all kinds of unfair, good old boys stuff over the years. I just think we should stay well away from that perception.

 

[toddlajoie]

I'm not sure if it is my feelings being similar to Curtis' or my misunderstanding, but I had thought that we were excluded from all the contests anyway for this issue of general membership perception (maybe it was just because I enjoyed the Trivia Contest the most, and that was the first I heard I couldn't participate in...:frown

I can guarantee that I would never intentionally look into the planning thread for a contest I was going to enter, but I couldn't guarantee that I wouldn't hit it by mistake not knowing that was what it was, so I'm interested in how this plays out. I don't have a problem not getting my stuff done ahead of time, as I left myself a day or so to get the poll post together after entries close before I have committed to posting the poll, but if others feel that they need to have that done ahead of time, I'm fine with opting out of entering the contest and getting 2nd to last place...

 

[mbroberg]

Why are we not posting the photos in the general forum ahead of time? One of the reasons that was brought up during the post bash dialogue last year is that by posting photos in the general forum as they come in it could influence whether or not someone entered a contest. If it is not an issue, then the photos need to be posted in the general forum as they come in. Otherwise, if it comes out after the bash that the bash planner who entered a contest was able to see the photos that no one else was able to see, then it will cause a stir and rightfully so. Does it give an unfair advantage? I don't know. It could be said that they were able to see the photos and saw what was in already and based their entry on that information. Again, information that only planning folks have access to. Even if, in your wisdom, you do not think it gives an unfair advantage, it could be perceived as such and is something that, in my opinion, we should stay completely away from.

If the amount of time it takes to create the poll has anything to do with photos and uploading, I can help with that. All the photos are already on the server that the form is on. Photos do not need to be uploaded again on IAP. I can send you a spreadsheet when the contest ends or you ask for it, that has the member info as well as the URL to the photo. All you have to do then is copy and past the URL.

I too am all for anything that makes things easier. However, after being a moderator for the past 7 or 8 years, I know how folks are. I have been accused of favoritism from every angle. Allowing only certain people who are going to enter a contest to see the pics ahead of time is opening a can of worms unless you try to keep it a secret that they had access. I am sorry but I will not stand for that. It all has to stay above the board or risk loosing all integrity of the management of IAP.

The purpose of the planning forum is to plan. Inner workings of contests, contest preparations, even answers to contest questions are freely discussed in the planning forum. That is common knowledge. No one is trying to keep anything secret. A certain amount of trust is necessary of the planning team is to function.

The primary reason for posting all the photos to be voted on at once instead of as they came in is to allow all of them the "same amount of time in the spotlight". The issue you mentioned, influencing whether or not someone enters is also a concern, but not the primary one.

What I gather from your posts is that your concern is that planners who may enter the contests in which pictures are posted as part of a poll would have an unfair advantage over other members planning to enter the same contests who do not have access to the planning forum. I agree that there is an argument to be made there. That is an easy fix. I will simply post a notice in the planning forum that states that any member of the planning group who intends to enter a contest which involves a poll needs to make a post in that thread (the one I start to make that notice) stating that intention. The first thing that will accomplish is to find out if we even have a concern. If we do I can think of several options that would eliminate the conflict. Rather than list them all lets see to what extent we actually have a potential problem.

I do appreciate your input!

 

[mbroberg]

And Jonathan, it is not about us trusting anyone. It is about perceived advantage. I would trust anyone here. However, some in the general membership may not feel that way. Again, I have been accused of all kinds of unfair, good old boys stuff over the years. I just think we should stay well away from that perception.

I agree with this 100% Perception is reality. If someone believes something to be true than it IS true.

Having been a cop for 35 years I also have had some experience dealing with people. It is true that you will never please everyone, but most people are reasonable enough to recognize honesty if the legitimate effort is made.

 

[MesquiteMan]

What I gather from your posts is that your concern is that planners who may enter the contests in which pictures are posted as part of a poll would have an unfair advantage over other members planning to enter the same contests who do not have access to the planning forum. I agree that there is an argument to be made there. That is an easy fix. I will simply post a notice in the planning forum that states that any member of the planning group who intends to enter a contest which involves a poll needs to make a post in that thread (the one I start to make that notice) stating that intention. The first thing that will accomplish is to find out if we even have a concern. If we do I can think of several options that would eliminate the conflict. Rather than list them all lets see to what extent we actually have a potential problem.

I do appreciate your input!

Yes, I believe I made that clear from the beginning! Contrary to what you may think, having pictures posted as they come in either encourages or discourages folks from entering. I have heard that comment so many times over the years from all kinds of folks. It is best to just stay away from any chance of claims of favoritism or impropriety.

 

[mredburn]

I am one of those considering entering a competition. I volunteered last year and entered the freestyle and the color casting although I ate my edible entry failures and did not enter it although I was trying.. I agree it will be perceived as an unfair advantage whether or not it is. It would undermine the Bash.
I could care less who has done what in any of the contests I enter I am only concerned with my efforts. But there are many that would not believe that. Especially if I or someone who did have access won. I would be glad to help Jonathon post his contest if that will help. I did so for Landon last year.

 

[mbroberg]

I will find out who is planing to enter what. I will then find out what chairmen would like to make their polls early in the planning thread. I will then deal with the overlap where necessary. There are some contests that volunteers cannot enter by virtue of their being a volunteer. I want to do what I can to keep those missed opportunities to a minimum.

 

[MesquiteMan]

You might ask Jeff to make a subforum here that only the chair's that aren't going to participate can view. Just a thought to make things easier.

 

[Brooks803]

You might ask Jeff to make a subforum here that only the chair's that aren't going to participate can view. Just a thought to make things easier.

I just came on to mention the exact same thing. Could save a lot of headaches!

 

[jeff]

I've created a subforum here "Poll Set Ups"

Who wants access? Nobody should be able to see the forum right now. Correct?

 

[Brooks803]

I don't see it but I want it!

I do plan on entering the advanced, freestyle,modified, and casting contests

 

[mbroberg]

I've created a subforum here "Poll Set Ups"

Who wants access? Nobody should be able to see the forum right now. Correct?

If I understand things correctly, unless you can lock down the individual polls within the subforum, that may not solve the problem. Say Jonathon wants to enter the Advanced. Mike Redburn is running the advanced and wants to set up his poll in advance in the new "Poll Set Ups" subforum.

Jonathon is running the Beginner and wants to set up a poll for that. Jonathon now has access to the "Poll Set Ups" subforum and could conceivably access the Advanced Poll.

Three questions need to be answered.

Who are the planners who want to enter contests?
What contests do they want to enter?
What chairmen want to set up their polls in advance?

Once we know that we will have a better idea about the scope of the issue. It may not be as big as we think.

 

[jeff]

I cannot lock individual threads, so I think the forum idea won't work.

I think Curtis mentioned that he can provide URL to the photos on our bash server. Those can be wrapped with IMG tags in any editor such as Notepad, then pasted into a thread. It can take a few minutes to get it entered, but maybe that's tolerable.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Not only can I provide the URL to each photo, I can even wrap it with the IMG tags so all that has to be done is copy and paste! I did it last year for the few who used the info I sent. I have a handy add-on for excel that will allow me to add the IMG stuff to an entire list with just a couple of clicks.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Or you could make a sub-forum for every contest that is only visible to the contest chair!

 

[mbroberg]

Or you could make a sub-forum for every contest that is only visible to the contest chair!

Wouldn't need one for every contest, would just need one for every chairman who would be posting polls. The most we would need would be 8.

Mredburn: Advanced, Youth
ParklandTurner: Fairfield
Displaced Canadian: Freestyle, Modified, Edible
Brooks803: Beginner, Intermediate
Buzzzz4: Casting
Monty: Antler
Toddlajoie: Photos
MBroberg: Creative

Toddlajoie has said that he doesn't need to set up his polls in advance (you can change your mind any time you want Todd). That takes us down to 7.

I don't know what is involved in creating a subforum but 7 doesn't sound too unreasonable.

 

[Buzzzz4]

Any way is fine with me. I am not entering any contests this year except my kids are doing the under 12. A place to start setting up the entries would be great.

 

[mbroberg]

As of this moment I have heard from everyone except for GoodTurns, Monty, Robert Sherlock and Sumpterdad. I can PM them.

Jonathon is running the Beginners and Intermediate.

The only person so far who has indicated that he might enter either of those contests is Todd, who might enter the Intermediate if his ego so dictates at the time :wink:.

I'll find out about the others. In the mean time, if you haven't responded to the two threads above concerning setting up polls and entering in contests, please do so.

 

[mbroberg]

Issue Resolved

We have this thing figured out.

Jeff is going to create five subforums. One has already been created. The only people who should be able to see the one that has already been created are Jonathon, Jeff, Curtis and me. Jonathon will set up his polls in that forum.

The four subforums yet to be created will be for Mike R, Eric, Chris and me.

Todd does not require a place to set up his polls early. He will do his polls when his contests end.

No planners are planning to enter Ed or Mannie's contests so their is no reason they cannot be visible to other planners.

That should take care of any concerns about entrants being able to see the polls of the contests they are entering prior to the general membership.

 

[mbroberg]

Jeff just let me know that all the subforums should be set up. No one except for Curtis, Jeff, Me, Mike R., Eric, Chris and Jonathon should be able t see or access any of these forums. Jonathon, Mike R., Eric and Chris should only be able to see their own forums. Let me know if that is not the case.

 

[mredburn]

I dont see mine. where am I supposed to look?

 

[mredburn]

Found it I can see only one for me