An Argument About Statements.

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To some people on some forums yes they are! On one home machining forum one of the members makes everything into the "how many angles can dance on the head of a pin!" If he disagrees with it in the least he is off and running. Although of lately the new members are no longer taking the bait. But he only thinks that he is correct on everything. "legend in his own mind":rolleyes:
:clown:
 
Depends partially on what the reaction is. If you state something, it's just that. It could be your opinion, or possibly not.

But the reaction can determine it's fate. An argument needs 2 or more parties. Unless you have multiple personalities :eek:! But wait, I'm not sure I agree with that, oh yes I do, ....
 
I'm not talking about the "fighting" argument, I'm talking about arguments in the academic sense. Kind of like "your argument is...".
 
Statements are facts, hypotheses, or assumed facts to prove/disprove a hypothesis. In essence, you use statements to lay out the foundation for any particular argument.

That said, the English language allows for some real twisted verbiage to happen, so the above is only meant to cover it in broad terms. I can make a statement that is also meant to be an argument, such as "All trees are brown." In my experience, that may be true, and as such, it's an argument whose veracity can be challenged. But it is both a statement and an argument.
 
I think it depends on the context.

If I say "My lathe broke this morning" that is a statement of fact it is in no way an argument and no one should ever disagree with such a statement unless they know for a fact that I lied.

If I say "All beer is the same" it is not necessarily a statement of fact...it is an opinion and others are free to disagree and state their own opinion. It is not in and of itself an argument but could easily become one.

If I make certain statements in the context of debate, they are an argument even if absolutely true. If I am debating a position regarding (say) the greatest baseball player of all time and state that persons statistics-the statement becomes an argument in favor of my position.

Now all of the above are opinions ---
 
But you are trying to convince everyone that your lathe did actually break. It can be verified true or false, but in stating that, you are in a sense arguing that your lathe broke. Right?
 
Smitty37 said:
If I say "My lathe broke this morning" that is a statement of fact it is in no way an argument and no one should ever disagree with such a statement unless they know for a fact that I lied.
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Now, if you said "My lathe broke this morning when the tailstock locking nut sheared off" I doubt anyone could argue with that. However, if you said it broke because you can't get it to work (a la those who call the Help Desk to report that the Internet is broken when all they needed to do was turn on the monitor -- if you have ever worked in IT you know this to be true:rolleyes:) only to realize two hours later that the circuit breaker popped, then that is a different kettle of fish of which the 'brokedness':eek: of the lathe could be argued.:biggrin::wink::biggrin:
 
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Let's use the Socratic method:

A statement is an expression of what the speaker perceives to be true.

Determining Truth requires a person to interpret whether the statement fits with what he/she knows.

The truth of that statement is analyzed through the very process of hearing, internalizing, and judging the Truth of the statement.

This judging occurs when you hear the statement.

In other words - in order to get meaning from the statement, the 'receiver' of the statement must interpret the statement, analyze it, and determine if it meets their standards for 'truth'.

If it's perceived to be true, then it is accepted. If it's inherent Truth is questioned by the receiver, then it is considered 'false' - but either way, interpretation and silent 'judging' must occur.

Therefore, all statements require internal analysis by the person hearing the argument.

Therefore, all statements are arguments.
 
maxwell_smart007 said:
Let's use the Socratic method:

A statement is an expression of what the speaker perceives to be true.

Determining Truth requires a person to interpret whether the statement fits with what he/she knows.

The truth of that statement is analyzed through the very process of hearing, internalizing, and judging the Truth of the statement.

This judging occurs when you hear the statement.

In other words - in order to get meaning from the statement, the 'receiver' of the statement must interpret the statement, analyze it, and determine if it meets their standards for 'truth'.

If it's perceived to be true, then it is accepted. If it's inherent Truth is questioned by the receiver, then it is considered 'false' - but either way, interpretation and silent 'judging' must occur.

Therefore, all statements require internal analysis by the person hearing the argument.

Therefore, all statements are arguments.
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Nope
 
maxwell_smart007 said:
Let's use the Socratic method:

A statement is an expression of what the speaker perceives to be true.


I really shouldn't enter this fray, however...

Not to critique Socrates, but can't I make a "statement" without believing it's true? Not me :biggrin:, but many I know do this frequently, just to poke each other... :mad:
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Therefore: since all statements are arguments:

Everthing we say is by definition a statement.

Therefore, since arguments must be stated to be heard, all arguments are also statments

Hence, everything we say is both an argument and a statement
 
Smitty37 said:
Joe S. said:
Also, IF all statements are arguments, it doesn't mean all arguments are statements.
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Read my earlier post again.
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I don't agree with the "everything we say is by definition a statement" argument/statement.

But if we are defining words differently, we will never be on the same page to argue. That's what the whole question revolves around: the definition of argument and statement. And according to my comp II textbook, all statements are claims until you put a reason behind it, then it is an argument. I just find it interesting to talk about. And I really like Andrew's answer too.
 
Joe S. said:
Smitty37 said:
Joe S. said:
Also, IF all statements are arguments, it doesn't mean all arguments are statements.
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Read my earlier post again.
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I don't agree with the "everything we say is by definition a statement" argument/statement.

But if we are defining words differently, we will never be on the same page to argue. That's what the whole question revolves around: the definition of argument and statement. And according to my comp II textbook, all statements are claims until you put a reason behind it, then it is an argument. I just find it interesting to talk about. And I really like Andrew's answer too.
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Andrew's post led to my response to it. My response is (to me) the natural extension of Andrew's reasoning. If, we must process every statement we hear to determine whether we believe it or not (which makes it an argument until we decide)...that includes everything said for any reason. If that is the case then everything said is an argument. Since all arguments must be statements and all statements are arguments arguments and statements are the same thing and include everything we say.


BTW I don't really believe that, I was responding to Andrew.
 
dwarmbrodt said:
"I'm hungry" is a statement I can make that no one else can prove or disprove. Or is that just me making a comment?
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But i can disbelieve and reply "Oh, you are not" so it was an argument. Actually that is a statement that you can't prove or disprove either and evidence that supports or refutes the statement can be introduced.
 
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