A Plea to Bash Planners

[mbroberg]

The form that Curtis created for photos of pens being entered into contests is really awesome on several levels. Curtis developed the form for the Photo Contest he is managing. Scott is going to use an entry form for the Ugly Pen contest. Benefits of using an entry form include:

1. The forms (and pictures of the pens) are stored on the IAP content server. This allows the picture to be posted elsewhere on the site with minimal effort. For example, when creating the polls for voting the pictures do not have to be cut, pasted, re-uploaded, etc. Just past the photo's readily available URL in the poll and the photo is created.

1. All the required information needed for shipping and contest eligibility will be readily available to contest managers and the prize distributors. No longer will people have to be hunted down so that they can have their prize shipped to them.

1. We will be able to keep accurate records and statistics on the various contests for evaluation and future planning (I think this is huge!!).

1. This will allow the Activities Manager to more easily spot contestants who are not eligible to participate in IAP activities due to their failure to meet their obligations (keep their promises) while participating in previous IAP activities (can you sense that these people really irritates me?).

Other than the fact that the submission form is a change from what has been done in the past, can anyone think of any downside? If so, please share.


How this would work is all the entries are submitted via the form. They are stored on the server and an email with the contestant's information is automatically generated and sent to the contest organizer. Once the contest closes the organizer can create the polls using the urls for the photos. SIMPLE!


My intent when I started this post was to REQUIRE the use of a submission form in all the contests involving the submission of a photo. All of you have graciously volunteered to perform the task you are performing with a basic understanding of what was required of you. I decided I am not going to change the rules in the middle of the game. HOWVER, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, WITH A BEAUTIFUL, CA FINISH ON TOP, I would really appriciate it if you would use an entry form for your contests if it involves the submission of a photo. Featured Pen, Best Article, Daily Trivia will not need to use a form this year since nothing is being submitted for judging.


You only need to PM Curtis the information you require beyond the basic IAP name, real name, address, email address, etc. He will create your form for you. Thanks Curtis!!!

Here are links to what Curtis has created so far.

http://content.penturners.org/joomla/

uglypen.doc

Future IAP activities and contests, including next year's Bash, will require the use of an entry form (provided Cav doesn't come back and nix it or I'm kicked out of here).

Thanks, ands sorry this post was so long.

 

[MesquiteMan]

I already have 2 forms created so making your new form is quite easy. All I have to do is clone one of the forms and change any of the details as you wish and away we go!

I do need the following contest specific details though

• The e-mail address you would like the form submissions sent to
• Rules you would like highlighted on the form as I did on the photo contest form, if any
• The name of your contest as you would like it displayed
• Categories, if applicable
• Number of attachments allowed
• Any special details you would like. For example, Scott wanted an area for the "story of the pen", etc.

 

[ldb2000]

I'm trying to wrap my mind around this . The entries will be emailed to me then I post the pictures to the correct threads instead of the entrant or does the entrant still upload their photo to the correct contest thread ?

 

[MesquiteMan]

How have you run your contests in the past, Butch. Do the participants normally upload their own photos? If so, then there would not be a real need for the form to include the photo since that only adds more work for you. I could, however, make a form for you where they are required to complete the form in order to enter the pen. That way the prize people have all the info they need and we have statistical data for future bash events. Personally, in your case, one of my rules would be that the uploaded photo will only be considered for the contest upon successful completion of the registration form. The folks that don't complete the form aren't eligible for the contest even if they upload a picture since they did not follow the rules.

Just a thought.

The other thing would be to not have folks post their photos and then you can maintain a contest with less potential partiality/bias since no one will know who made the pen when it comes time to vote on the pen. In that case, you would collect all the data and photos. When the polling time comes, you simply copy and past the url into the image box and the photo will show up. No need to upload anything since it will already be on the server. Not trying to change your contest, just giving some ideas!

 

[ldb2000]

I think that most like the idea of having their pens posted in the contest threads as a "see what I did" kind of thing . I wonder if this would affect participation in a negative way . Can you link the form as a part of posting their photos or would they post the photos and then fill out the form , then if they don't fill out the form would their photos then be deleted ?

 

[Phunky_2003]

I'd like mine posted and be able to describe it and what not. However it wouldnt keep me from entering.

I kinda like what Curtis was saying about keeping pictures anon... anoyno.... secritive until the voting.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Butch,

No, the form can not be a part of posting the photo but it can certainly be in your rules for your contest with a link to the form!

Posting vs anon, personal preference I guess. My thinking is that some folks may get votes just because they are more popular than another if folks know who made what. It is your contest, though, so please just take this as my opinion and nothing more!

 

[hunter-27]

Future IAP activities and contests, including next year's Bash, will require the use of an entry form

Don't shoot-----------:beat-up:Just thinking out loud here. Might it be best to, at the end of the Bash, put out a poll asking if members prefer it this way or the old fashion way. Might be easier for the planners but if no one liked it would it still be a good idea?

 

[MesquiteMan]

Here is the database report that can be produced when the deadline ends. Just to give you an idea of the data available to the Activities Manager, the contest organizer, and the prize distribution team.

http://content.penturners.org/joomla/uglypen.html

 

[MesquiteMan]

To post the photo, all the contest person needs to do is right click on the photo link from the report or e-mail and save, then use the yellow box with the mountain in it above this entry box and right click and then paste and it is all done.

 

[ed4copies]

Two concerns:
First, we have to overcome the "creep factor". MANY people continue to think they are anonymous on the web. When you make them step out and identifly themselves, SOME will refuse.
Subtopic: One of the features of the bash is it's ability to persuade "lurkers" to become members. IF they were too shy to join and you start asking for personal information----EGAD!!!!!!!!!! You want my NAME and EMAIL??????????? HORROROOOORROORS

Second point: When MLK mysteriously FOUND a number of email addresses and attempted to say they got them from IAP, Jeff could say with certainty WHO had access to the IAP files and that there was NO WAY this information came from here. IF we establish another database of contest participants and make it available to all of us on the "bash team", can we assure members it will enjoy the same security and privacy promises the site makes as "policy"?

This last point is directed mostly to Jeff---if HE is comfortable, I am comfortable---but I see it as a potential pitfall.

 

[ed4copies]

OK, now as PRIZE CO-ORDINATOR, this form WOULD be nice. I have a lot of email addresses from prior years, as well as phone numbers, etc. that I use for the bash.

But I am afraid it would limit participation by the timid. We only NEED information on the winners.

If we make another step, it will be enough to make SOME people choose not to participate---why do it, if it is not really necessary?

IMO!!!!! The bash is an effort to get the membership involved and get new members to join. IF that is the goal, we should avoid erecting any barriers that are not entirely necessary, even if they ARE very HELPFUL to US.

The bash is not about US>

FWIW!!!

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Given the time and energy involved in the Bash, I don't think it unreasonable to ask contest participants to fill out some information. We already have their name and location, so this is just one more step.

If they are unwilling, then why would they participate in the first place - if you win, you'll have to provide info anyway.

Perhaps a stipulation that we'll destroy all records of addresses after the Bash would ease those fears though, Ed?

 

[MesquiteMan]

Let me clarify a little...

The ugle pen contest organizer will ONLY receive the information for the people who enter his contest. He will be the only one to receive this information. It will NOT be made available to the bash planners as a whole. The report I posted a link to will ONLY be available to the person running that specific contest. Each form creates its own database. The only people who will have access to that particular contest data will be the organizer and myself and Jeff. Jeff and I already have access to the e-mail address of every person who joins IAP so the only additional information we would have is addresses.

For statistical purposes after the bash, I can create a database report that does not have any address or e-mail information that can then be shared with the bash planners to look at participation.

For prize distributors, they will only receive the list of winners, not the entire list of entrants.

 

[ed4copies]

Here's my take, Andrew:

Personally, I know that everything I do on the web is being stored somewhere. I'm old and yet, I'm ok with that (as if I had a choice).

BUT, when we alluded to this in a thread some months ago, the "hue and cry" was amazing. Dawn told me it was the "creep factor". I argued for several days that EVERYONE KNEW the internet was not "private". The tone of the thread convinced me I was wrong. There are MANY who don't want to believe they lose their "privacy" the minute their IP address is logged.

So, while I read volumes on how to track people and how to target advertising, based on their behavior, I will not ask for information, because I am afraid it will "turn them off" to Exotics. So, let the IAP do it and I will learn what the reaction is, here.

It will be great for me as a study in forum marketing, but I believe it will hurt participation in the bash.

The real equation is what do we gain, vs what could we lose.

We could LOSE participation.
We gain, in your scenario (dispose of the info after the bash) their "private" information for a few days.
"Knowledge is power"???
We exercised "control"???

Wasn't our goal to have FUN???? and get DONATIONS??? Even anonymous donations??? But we need to know who submits a picture??? Who cares?

 

[PR_Princess]

From the IAP's Privacy Policy:

"Mailing Addresses: We might ask for your postal mailing address so that we can send you a contest prize, a donation premium, or a thank-you gift for writing an article, etc. The address you supply is used only for the purpose of delivering items to you via the US Postal Service."

(emphasis added)

Wouldn't we be violating our own policies??

 

[MesquiteMan]

Is that not what we are asking for the information for? It states in the contest rules that we only ask for the address info for the purpose of sending prizes should one be won. The address WILL only be used to send prizes if one is won. There is no other purpose for needing the information.

 

[MesquiteMan]

As for knowing who submits a picture...every contest that requires someone to send something via e-mail will be exposing the e-mail addresses to the contest organizer. At the moment, these contests include the photo contest, the ugly pen contest, and the crossword puzzle contest. If a contest has people post their own pictures on the forum, then no e-mail address is shared, obviously.

The photo contest and ugly pen contest have always required sending the pictures to the contest organizer so nothing has changed on those. It could easily be changed to make the address info optional if that helps anyone feel better. Then the prize distribution folks can chase down the address from the winners who do not provide that info. I can easily make that change if desired.

 

[Scott]

Hi Everybody!

Although this is the first year that Curtis has developed an entry form for me, it is not the first year I have required name and mailing address to be submitted to me with the entry. I put it right in my rules that this information is only collected for the purpose of awarding and sending prizes, and the only thing to be posted on the site with the entry will be the person's user name. It hasn't kept people from entering my contest.

Go check out the form that Curtis made for me. It is wonderful! It will make this whole process much easier to deal with. I highly recommend it.

Scott.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Ok, how's this look for the photo contest at least? One note, though, when the contest is over, I will provide the list of winners to the prize distribution people and any that do not have the address included will need to be contacted by the prize people to get that info. Sounds like a good compromise to me. Thoughts?

 

[MesquiteMan]

Like I said, if the prize people want to track down the members who they need to send prizes to in order to get the address, I am completely fine with that. No skin off my teeth. I was requesting the info simply to try to help make the prize people's job easier but if that is not necessary or wanted, then who am I am worry about it! Sorry for trying to make things easier on the prize people.

 

[ed4copies]

Hi Everybody!

Although this is the first year that Curtis has developed an entry form for me, it is not the first year I have required name and mailing address to be submitted to me with the entry. I put it right in my rules that this information is only collected for the purpose of awarding and sending prizes, and the only thing to be posted on the site with the entry will be the person's user name. It hasn't kept people from entering my contest.

Go check out the form that Curtis made for me. It is wonderful! It will make this whole process much easier to deal with. I highly recommend it.

Scott.

Sorry Scott, you can't prove a negative. You BELIEVE that it has not kept people out---but only those who have NOT participated can tell you why.

 

[ed4copies]

We (prize people) appreciate any effort to make our lives simpler.

But the purpose of the bash is to encourage participation.

We (IAP guys) talk about WHY people LURK. It costs nothing to join---and has so many benefits of participation. Yet, we know a large number of "lurkers" exist. We don't have to understand it, it just IS!!

So, when we hope for participation in the bash, as I said before, why erect unnecessary hurdles? And, to many people, providing even their email address is a hurdle.

I guess I just don't believe in rules for the sake of rules.
We need the winners' information, which I have always gotten. (past couple years) The rest of the participants can keep their "anonymity" if they wish.

But, it is no big deal to me---more or fewer entries won't result in a raise!!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[MesquiteMan]

So Ed, did you look at the pic of the revised form I put up a couple of posts above? Seems like the best of both worlds to me. Folks that are paranoid about privacy don't have to fill out the info and folks who realize their info is already on the net can do so if they wish. This actually gives them even more security since the form WILL NOT transmit their e-mail address unless they provide it whereas, if they are required to e-mail something to the contest organizer, they have to expose their e-mail address.

It will also provide an interesting insight into folks willingness to provide this info. When done, we will be able to see a % of the folks who wanted to maintain their privacy vs. those that don't care.

IF we establish another database of contest participants and make it available to all of us on the "bash team

Also, in case you missed it from up above, the databases will only be available to Jeff and myself with the pertinent info shared with the contest organizer. In other words, if you are not running the Ugly Pen contest, you have no need or access to the Ugly Pen contest database and even the Ugly Pen Contest organizer will only be privy to the data necessary to run his contest.

 

[ed4copies]

Yes, Curtis, I saw it and I like it better than before.

I believe the plusses and minuses have been offered, now a reasonable period of thought should ensue. An immediate decision is not required, since we have until Tuesday.

So, let's all consider why we would do whatever we do and decide what policy to set. Or, if others have an opinion, now would be a good time to "voice" it.

Decisions can wait until Sunday or Monday, I believe.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Not if a form is needed! I need some time to clone and tweak the new form.

Also, I believe setting the policy for activities falls directly on Mike's shoulders and not on all of ours.

 

[mbroberg]

Thanks for all the opinions. IMHO, all of the points have some validity except for:

"I guess I just don't believe in rules for the sake of rules."

What this says to me is that having a form serves absolutely no useful, practical or beneficial purpose what so ever. It says that the only reason the rule (i.e., the form) exists is to have it. I don't agree with that, I believe that there are at least four benefits to having it, which I listed above in the first post.

So far, unless I missed something, the downside is the perception that some people might have, that their information is not safe. This could lead to a hesitation to participate.

At this point, as stated in the first post, the use of an entry form is voluntary. If you want to use it, use it. If you don't, don't.

Curtis, Thanks for taking the time to develop it. I think there is some real merit to it. Lets see what percentage of contestants provide the, "controversial" information voluntarily in the Photo Contest and the Ugly Pen Contest. After the Bash we can re-evaluate and further discuss the issue.

I do hope that all contest organizers have their rules posted in the public Bash thread by Saturday. That way I can have Jeff move it to public view either late Saturday or on Sunday. ( I hope to have a, "Welcome to the Bash" post in place by this evening.)

 

[jeff]

Good IT practices dictate that we collect the minimum amount of information necessary to get the job done.

I'm happy with the form as modified. It complies with our privacy policy.

Thanks for the discussion!