2 MT Alignment tool . . How?

[leehljp]

I purchased the 2MT alignment tool from Packard Woodworks while back in the States.

What is the correct way to use this?

Reason for the question: I was having an alignment problem on occasion and it was the tail stock. I discovered the problem and solution after getting the 2MT alignment tool.

However, I now realize it is not for the tail stock but for the head stock alignment. IS this correct? Can it be used for tail stock alignment? I don't see how.

I pulled the tail stock up and everything fits fine by my observation, but I can't tell if the tail stock is off by any margin from the tool. My only conclusions were that you put it in the tail stock and align the head stock - for those lathes that you turn outward for bowl turning.

IF the tail stock aligns up with the head stock according to the tool, it doesn't do any good once the tail stock is moved back.

Opinions?

 

[Fred]

Lee ... Sorry ole buddy, but I have never had the problem ... now I go off and knock on all the wood around me for good luck to continue!

You know how it goes the moment after you say, "I ain't never had to ..." BAMB goes the hammer and now you too have the experience.

BTW, what was your solution to your problem and how did the problem develop?

 

[KenV]

Lee -- I have read this a couple of times and I get confused as to what you are seeking. Most of the wood lathes used in US and europe are set with the inside of the ways being the control for the tailstock. These should be close to the alignment of the bore/spindle in the headstock, but there is a fair amount of tolerance by the time you get to a hundred mm or so (4 inches) from the headstock. If the headstock spindle is pointed a long ways from the ways, it tends to creast some kinks in semi-rigid things like pen mandrels, but should be barely detectable with dead-center/live-center (mandrelless) turnings. My big lathe has movable ways - not a problem for small alignment offsets.

Sounds like you are suspecting that your headstock needs to be shimmed - and carefull measurement comparing the axis of the spindle to the alignment of the ways should tell the story.

 

[leehljp]

My primary problem was that I had not thought the process through. I was wanting the headstock and tail stock aligned in all dimensions - up close and when the TS was way back. Seemed reasonable enough when I bought it. :biggrin:

However, The tail stock has a fair amount of lateral (side to side) play in it. It can be locked down too far to the right or left. I have to use one hand to hold and align the TS to the front ways and then lock it with the other hand. It does OK then.

When the dead center and live center are brought together nose to nose, and locked down naturally, the TS is about 1/32 to the right (viewed from the top). If I unlock it and pull on the TS "live center", I can pull it (kant it) to about .1mm to the left of the HS dead center. But, If I pull the "TS" snug against the front ways, it lines up fine, but it does not do this naturally. I have to deliberately align the TS to the front ways each time in order for a good alignment. Is this normal? For two years I have not had to do this, but lately I have. I don't know what is wearing down.


Back to the alignment tool. It only works when the TS and HS are nose to nose - which doesn't help once the TS is back to the position of where I mount a blank. It tends to align itself 1/32 in to the right, unless I deliberately hold the TS snug against the front ways as I lock it.

Again, I wasn't thinking this through when I got the alignment tool. It doesn't help the situation I have. Does this make sense?

 

[keithkarl2007]

I feel your pain buddy, on my lathe the tailstock is below the headstock. I've posted about it asking for help, its been like that since i got it and the only thing we came up with is shim up the tailstock or grind down the headstock.
Ed4copies emphasised to me that shouldn't have to be done on a new lathe and i'm doing my best to send it back. I've emailed the company with photos of the problem but i just know they are going to tell me to shim the tailstock

oh and i understand about pulling the tailstock out to the front of the ways for alignment, same problem here, its going to drive me insane.
Your lucky you got 2 years out of it before the problem arose, i turned one pen on mine since i got it and it was out of round, the fault was there before i used it.

 

[rherrell]

Hank, I believe those tools were made to "re-align" a moveable headstock that had been moved to do outboard turning or something else. They won't align a lathe that is out of alignment.:frown:

 

[juteck]

Hank - I think the double MT2 alignment tool is primarily used to re-align lathes with rotating headstocks, to get the headstock back in line instead of relying on the built in stops.

My Jet mini never had alignment problems, so never had to mess with it. I upgraded to the Jet 1462 with sliding headstock and have had similar alignment issues with the tailstock as you mentioned. Mine was out a little less than 1/32" or so, so I ended up shimming the front face of the headstock to "tilt" it backwards. I still have a fair amount of "slop" in the tailstock adjustment, but it hasn't seemed to give me problems with alignment for pen turning on a mandrel. I take a little more time with drilling before locking the tailstock in place, to try and maintain a centered bit running parallel to the ways - anything else will give me an enlarged hole and lots of squealing when I drill.

That said, the double MT2 alignment tool you have should still help you determine where to shim, and how much shim material you need. To shim, loosen your headstock mounting bolts and insert your shims until the MT tool fits into both the tailstock and headstock.

Good luck.



On a side note to Keith, if the dealer does not accept the return and tells you to shim, at least ask for the shim material, or have them send you to an authorized dealer for shimming...on their dime.

 

[leehljp]

I am going to check the headstock and see if I can make the corrections there!
Up, down, tilt, skewed is not the problem. Just 1/32 alignment off. I think I can do that! The alignment tool will be perfect in this case.

I am just slow in getting the "idea"! Rocks are hard to penetrate! Thanks all!

 

[Paul in OKC]

I would think if you shim, you would need to shim the whole thing, not just front or back. This would change the angle of the spindle, and not be much better than to just leave things as they are. I have said before, that I don't see where this makes much difference in turning with hand held tools. Being off 1/32 tip to tip isn't very much once the tail stock is backed up to turning position. Not to say I wouldn't like it like that, but.... Changing the 'axis' of the spindle puts a curve in the alignment as well, just in a different direction.

 

[KenV]

Lee -- I have a lathe with a movable bed (stubby) and between the movable bed and the tailstock, I think 1/32 inch precision at a foot from the headstock is looking pretty good. That is 31 thousandth of an inch, but the error of the offset at the ends is out of spec for a metal lathe, but for a wood lathe with hand held tools, you will not be able to measure it on the end product.

Unless you are doing minatures, the problems are not in minor alignment tolerances An extreme compoarison is the two universal joints and drive shaft on an old pickup. The drive shaft is concentric about its axis regardless of the offset. The universal joint (ends) are where the excentrics happen.

 

[leehljp]

I noticed a little bit of OOR in a couple of pens back a couple of months ago. I could feel a very slight vibration at the tail stock end at 2000+ rpm. It was barely noticeable on the pen but enough with my eye that I would not submit it to peers for evaluation. LOML could not see any problem but I could.

With calipers I could measure something like .05 mm greater on one cross section of a turned blank than the right angle cross section. I began to measure a couple of others and found similar results. Then I checked the lathe. Not nose to nose. 1/32" approximately off. Then I started pulling the TS snug to align with the front ways as I locked it down and the problem went away.

I did not have to do this before. I am sure of this because about a year ago, I considered sending a pen to PMG for consideration and I scrutinized everything. Tolerances were taken into account. So, something in the tail stock has caused it to get out of alignment.

AS long as I make sure the TS is snug to the front ways when I lock it down, I am OK.