Best chisel for roughing pens?

I did a search, but nothing came up on this, so forgive me if it's already been asked somewhere. I'm just getting started with turning - I've only turned three pens so far, and I'm happy with the early results. So far I've just done wood blanks, but I am looking forward to trying plastics once I'm more comfortable with the tools (and my skills). Right now, all I have is the set of 3 Benjamin's Best HSS Pen Turning chisels that came with the PSI starter kit. I've been using the 3/8" spindle gouge for rough turning the square blanks down to the general shape, then finishing the shaping with the 1/2" skew. At some point in the not too distant future I'd like to start upgrading the chisels, but before I do (and I know this can be very subjective and unique by in), I'd like some opinions on what you more experienced guys are using for roughing and finishing, for other wood and plastics. A good friend of mine has been turning for several years now, and he swears by roughing with a skew and finishing with a 2" radius square, so I'm sure there's no single correct answer. I'd also like to diversify into other small turning (bottle stoppers are next on my list), so hopefully my upgrades will be appropriate for those kinds of projects as well. Thanks in advance!

I mostly use carbide and generally switch to the skew for the final few cuts. That being said, I have turned complete pens with nothing but a skew and I have turned complete pens with nothing but a roughing gouge. Your use of the spindle gouge for rounding them out is certainly a great way to do it. A roughing gouge is good to keep around, though. Your best bet is to just throw some blanks on the lathe and play around to see what feels best to you. You can use cheap wood and don't even have to drill and tube it to just get a feel for the chisels. Chances are that you're going to change up from your original routine a few times as you progress anyway. Ultimately, the skew is the one to master for just about anything. No matter what you use, keep them sharp!

Plastics are a different story. Some are quite finicky. A lot of resin blanks are Alumilite, which turns very smoothly. The hybrids can be tougher, even though most are cast with Alumilite, just because of the mixed materials. The acrylic blanks are where things get a little tougher. They crack and chip easily, but they take a better polish than Urethane resins (like Alumilite). The best way to get used to those is with the rhino plastic blanks. They're really inexpensive, so they make great practice blanks. Inlace Acrylester and Mica Pearl blanks are probably better to hold off on for a little while.

I hope that helps. It's good that you ask before spending a fortune on tools. For what it's worth, I started with the Benjamin's Best set of 8, which has been adequate for everything I need, but I am glad that I got some carbide chisels. I also have the set of 5 Benjamin's Best detail chisels, but they don't get used much. A big question is, are you going to turn more than just pens?

For rouging, vs. finishing cuts, on wood I use a spindle roughing gouge. I have two, one about 7/8" size and another 1-1/4" size. When properly sharpened, and used at a sheer angle, I've turned entire pens with nothing but these roughing gouges (the 7/8" in particular). Normally you present a roughing gouge strait in, however turned to an angle you can take very clean cuts across a pen blank, and it is a quick way to rough down the blank and smooth out the cylinder without ever changing tools.

Sometimes I'll rough with the roughing gouge, then switch to a 1/2" spindle gouge for the final work. This is often more true when I need a slight curve to my barrel rather than just a strait cylinder.

FWIW, I have been using a skew a lot these days. I have honed my spindle gouge usage pretty well, and I can get quite clean cuts, especially with very sharp tools that have honed edges (not the rough burr off the grinder.) However, if you want the smoothest cut surface possible, once you have the skill, the skew will usually still surpass the gouge. I still have a little trouble controlling a skew in some cases, notably at the ends of the blank when I'm turning down to the bushing. I don't know why, perhaps some unstable hands. In any case, skew gets you the smoothest wood surface you can attain, once you have the skill.

As I hone my skill with a skew, I find that I am often roughing my pen blanks down with them as well. There are various ways to use a skew to rough down a spindle. You can peel, which can be very fast but a bit rough, and it works well on some woods and not as well on others (harder woods may chip and shake). You can also run the skew across the blank and just take off layers of the wood until the blank is round. A roughing gouge is a lot easier to use, but, with the skew used this way, which can be a bit harder since you have to hold the skew at the same distance from the woold the full length of the stroke across the blank until it IS round, you basically run no risk of tearout or chipout, and the final result will be extremely clean and smooth.

sorcerertd said:

I mostly use carbide and generally switch to the skew for the final few cuts. That being said, I have turned complete pens with nothing but a skew and I have turned complete pens with nothing but a roughing gouge. Your use of the spindle gouge for rounding them out is certainly a great way to do it. A roughing gouge is good to keep around, though. Your best bet is to just throw some blanks on the lathe and play around to see what feels best to you. You can use cheap wood and don't even have to drill and tube it to just get a feel for the chisels. Chances are that you're going to change up from your original routine a few times as you progress anyway. Ultimately, the skew is the one to master for just about anything. No matter what you use, keep them sharp!

Plastics are a different story. Some are quite finicky. A lot of resin blanks are Alumilite, which turns very smoothly. The hybrids can be tougher, even though most are cast with Alumilite, just because of the mixed materials. The acrylic blanks are where things get a little tougher. They crack and chip easily, but they take a better polish than Urethane resins (like Alumilite). The best way to get used to those is with the rhino plastic blanks. They're really inexpensive, so they make great practice blanks. Inlace Acrylester and Mica Pearl blanks are probably better to hold off on for a little while.

I hope that helps. It's good that you ask before spending a fortune on tools. For what it's worth, I started with the Benjamin's Best set of 8, which has been adequate for everything I need, but I am glad that I got some carbide chisels. I also have the set of 5 Benjamin's Best detail chisels, but they don't get used much. A big question is, are you going to turn more than just pens?

Click to expand...

Both replies here are very helpful, especially the details about plastics - thank you! I'll probably be sticking with woods for a while, as there are plenty of them to keep things interesting. And then I'll have to put myself in the right frame of mind for the eventuality of wasting a lot of materials before I get plastics right. As for playing with different tools and routines, I have a mountain of scrap, much of it 3/4" thick pine, so cutting up blanks for testing would be a breeze. It'd be good practice for drilling, too - I got 40 pre-cut and drilled blanks in the starter pack to get spoiled on.

To answer your question, yes I do plan on turning other types of projects. In fact I've got a bottle stopper starter kit on the way, in case I get bored with pens. I've seen several other kits I'd like to try as well, but bottle stoppers are first on the list once I'm comfortable with a few different types of pens.

Ed; Pens are almost all spindles. The grain runs from head stock to tail stock. Bowls & platters are mostly cross / side grain. The grain runs across the axis of the lathe.

For both wood and synthetics, there is a WIDE range of hardness from soft as balsa to hard as ironwood. Same with synthetics, some are soft and easy, some are hard as nails, some are "chippy".

Look for a local wood turning club. AAW has chapters all over. Nothing beats standing beside someone and watching them, then taking the tool in hand. https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturner/AAWConnects/AAW-Connects.aspx

If you are going to stay with wood for a while, I might suggest the Robert Sorbey Spindlemaster. It is sort of a hybrid between skew and gouge - presenting a flat curved edge to the wood surface. This was my sole beginning tool for almost two years when I first started penmaking and it is still an occasional go to for me. I use it for all my beginner pen turning classes when someone is having issues with a classic tool.

I don't find this to be a super good choice for resin, choosing instead carbide insert tools, but if you keep it sharp, it will serve for either wood or resin.
Sorbey SpindleMaster

Keep your speeds high when using this - and use a less aggressive amount of pressure and you might find it useful!

Kevin

I am self taught a NOT the best at that! I grew up with the necessity of using grinders for and learning how to sharpen different tools. With that background, when I got into turning and with pens, I used HSS tools. To this day, I prefer HSS and can sharpen them to my needs and a tad bit sharper than I find with the best Carbide Insert tools.

That said, for me I have learned to use carbide insert tools for roughing small bowls and pen blanks to near size and then use the very sharp HSS to bring to size and finish turning. With experience and a very sharp HSS scraper or skew, it is possible to turn blanks so smooth that sandpaper is not needed in many cases.

It all comes down to your experience and what serves you best in your situation.

Wood is no problem but synthetics, to use a generic term, is another story. I spent a load of time with various tools to turn a couple of synthetic blanks; spindle roughing gouge, spindle gouge, bowl gouge and skew. Not a good experience. I feel that I can "rough" to round and use a square end scraper for the final touches. More time to experiment.

leehljp said:

I am self taught a NOT the best at that! I grew up with the necessity of using grinders for and learning how to sharpen different tools. With that background, when I got into turning and with pens, I used HSS tools. To this day, I prefer HSS and can sharpen them to my needs and a tad bit sharper than I find with the best Carbide Insert tools.

That said, for me I have learned to use carbide insert tools for roughing small bowls and pen blanks to near size and then use the very sharp HSS to bring to size and finish turning. With experience and a very sharp HSS scraper or skew, it is possible to turn blanks so smooth that sandpaper is not needed in many cases.

It all comes down to your experience and what serves you best in your situation.

Click to expand...

Self taught as well. Agree on HSS tools - sharpened well, they can deliver silky smooth finishes - and with quality steel, they can last a while between sharpening's. I'll add one thing to sharpening that I learned in a class with Eric Lofstrom - use a hone after sharpening on a wheel. Tool goes from sharp to SCARY sharp when done right. Eric has a few videos on YouTube about suggested methods, making the few extra minutes worth the time. I believe the edge is more important than tool shape.

Kevin

NJturner said:

Self taught as well. Agree on HSS tools - sharpened well, they can deliver silky smooth finishes - and with quality steel, they can last a while between sharpening's. I'll add one thing to sharpening that I learned in a class with Eric Lofstrom - use a hone after sharpening on a wheel. Tool goes from sharp to SCARY sharp when done right. Eric has a few videos on YouTube about suggested methods, making the few extra minutes worth the time. I believe the edge is more important than tool shape.

Kevin

Click to expand...

^ THAT makes a BiG difference!

One other thing: Speed - RPM. 2500 - 3000 for cutting (but not for sanding). 2500rpm on a 1/2" wood diameter blank is a slower cutting speed than 600rpm on a 10" bowl and subject to rougher cuts on medium to soft woods. Also, scrapers do terrible on soft woods but great on hard woods. In general skews are the opposite, so I have read from a highly regarded old turner.

You basically turn most projects with just about any tool that sharp and you have the knowledge how to use it. Also how to present it to the project being turned. But with that said they make different style and shapes of cutter heads for a reason. I suggest getting a turning book or doing some video watching on the net. There are many turners demonstarting their use of different tools and the proper ways to use them. For us to tell you what is best is just not possible. We all learned different methods. I have for years here promoted the use of the skew as a final tool for many projects because of the shaprness and it versatility. But it does require abit of a learning curve.

So to basically answer your question directly I will tell you what I have grown to love to use. I rough with a round carbide cutter using the Easy Wood tools and then finish all pens with all materials with a good sharp skew. My sanding is practilly nil when done and can go right into finishing. Good luck.

NJturner said:

Self taught as well. Agree on HSS tools - sharpened well, they can deliver silky smooth finishes - and with quality steel, they can last a while between sharpening's. I'll add one thing to sharpening that I learned in a class with Eric Lofstrom - use a hone after sharpening on a wheel. Tool goes from sharp to SCARY sharp when done right. Eric has a few videos on YouTube about suggested methods, making the few extra minutes worth the time. I believe the edge is more important than tool shape.

Kevin

Click to expand...

FWIW, not all steel is equivalent. There is your average HSS, which is usually M2. This is ok, but it often does not hold an edge terribly well. There are better forms of steel, such as M42 or 10V, as well as forms of Cryo steel, which hold a very sharp edge a lot longer, don't require taking off as much steel each time you sharpen and hone, etc. I have been mostly using M42 and some 10V tools, with a particular 600 grit CBN wheel, and the sharpness is exceptional and tools remain sharp for much longer than my M2 "HSS" tools.

A good sharpening wheel is also key. I had two CBN wheels, which I purchased strait out the gate when I started turning back in 2020. I bought a Rikon low speed grinder, and promptly replaced the aluminum oxide wheels with CBN wheels. However a friend sent me an older 600 grit "wide" CBN wheel earlier in the year when he replaced his. I was at first thinking I would just use it to refine the sharpening my 350 grit wheel did, however this CBN wheel was FAR superior to any of the wheels I had purchased myself, despite being a much higher grit. I've been learning that not all CBN wheels are made the same, and this one in particular (which I think comes from Woodturning Wonders) allows me to resharpen the edge of almost all of my tools in a matter of seconds. I will flip the wheel on as I set up my gouge in the jig, then literally spend about 10-15 seconds putting an edge back on before flipping the grinder off again and going back to turning (or honing, definitely more with the skews than gouges, but honing really does help produce a cleaner cutting edge.)

So if you are looking to step up your turning game, look into some good quality CBN wheels. I'll see if I can find and link the one I have (which I'll probably need to buy another one soon enough here, as the one from my friend is a bit older, and some parts are showing wear now.)

I second the motion of CBN wheels. I purchased 80 and 180 grit wheels. Have the Rikon low speed grinder...on sale at $99.95 in the olden days. Price has gone up. FWIW, check the reviews and warranty as Harbor Freight has a variable speed grinder; https://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-variable-speed-bench-grinder-with-led-work-light-59300.html

CBN wheels do not fill with swarf, so they tend to work better that the same grit on an oxide wheel. I have an 80 grit oxide wheel. It and my 180 CBN wheel work much the same. Same for my 180 oxide and 320 CBN. I've thought about a 600 grit CBN wheel.

randyrls said:

CBN wheels do not fill with swarf, so they tend to work better that the same grit on an oxide wheel. I have an 80 grit oxide wheel. It and my 180 CBN wheel work much the same. Same for my 180 oxide and 320 CBN. I've thought about a 600 grit CBN wheel.

Click to expand...

FWIW, swapping out my 350 for the 600 was the best thing I've done. And its an old 600 that's been used for a few years as well. Still it is the best CBN wheel I've ever used.

I believe this is the wheel:


My original wheels were narrower...I really like the wider 1.5" thickness wheel. Especially for freehand sharpening of scrapers and skews, it has been so very nice. Well worth the price, IMO (although, its not that much more expensive, I think I spent $159 each on my previous two wheels, which are not as good.)

I'm guessing by now that you get the idea that sharpening is important
I also will agree with a couple others that said you can skip sanding if you have a sharp skew and a steady hand.

sorcerertd said:

I'm guessing by now that you get the idea that sharpening is important
I also will agree with a couple others that said you can skip sanding if you have a sharp skew and a steady hand.

Click to expand...

Yeah … another skill I need to learn, and of course more stuff to buy. I do have a whetstone that would probably be good for touching up the HSS chisels, but probably not anything harder. I also have an older benchtop grinder that I used to sharpen lawnmower blades, but it hasn't seen the light of day in ages. That would probably do the job on anything that isn't carbide, but I'd be scared to death of trashing one of my currently only two chisels. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually.

Edit: I just took the little whetstone to the spindle gouge, because it felt like it was maybe getting a little tired toward the end of the last blank I did earlier today. Hardest part was finding the most comfortable position to hold the chisel and stone to keep consistent with the bevel anngle around the whole curve. We'll see how I did tomorrow on some marblewood (first time working that stuff), but my goodness it sure felt like it could remove some skin. More to come …

I don't know the best, but use many including 4 makes of carbide tools; I also own HSS: Dway, Thompon, and Sorby gouges. I probably use my Dway gouge 90% of the time. The only thing is that I probably invest to $700 in sharpening equipment (CBN wheels, jigs, etc). I don't know if it is necessary anymore unless re-shaping tools.

I started out with 3 "cheap" tools, a small carbide rougher, a small carbide finisher, and an HSS parting tool. The only thing that has changed is "scale", ie. tools with larger cutters. Some of the newer carbide tools cut very similar to traditional tools, and I treated myself to one of the Hunter tools.

The carbide vs traditional tools debate is one of those "put 5 people in a room and tell them they can come out when they agree which is best". Of course, they never come out, and that's OK because it is "each to their own". How they started out likely has a major influence on how they continued. Today I see that many "traditional" turners us a combination of traditional HSS and carbide. Use what works for you. It is the result that matters, and not how you got there. The cutting vs scraping debate will no doubt continue,

I took a bowl turning class. The instructor stated that carbide tools do the job but don't offer the finish of quality HSS tools. I have gone online and bought some HSS blanks to make a Bedan tool and a beading/parting tool.
If you think the tool needs sharpening, you are already late.

Woodchipper said:

I took a bowl turning class. The instructor stated that carbide tools do the job but don't offer the finish of quality HSS tools. I have gone online and bought some HSS blanks to make a Bedan tool and a beading/parting tool.
If you think the tool needs sharpening, you are already late.

Click to expand...

I have heard that argument offered many times by the traditional turners, and it may be true. Surely, the real test is whether you can tell the difference in the "finished" product. For someone starting out, carbide is a much cheaper option overall, easier to learn, and I would much rather be turning than sharpening!

NGLJ said:

I have heard that argument offered many times by the traditional turners, and it may be true. Surely, the real test is whether you can tell the difference in the "finished" product. For someone starting out, carbide is a much cheaper option overall, easier to learn, and I would much rather be turning than sharpening!

Click to expand...

I actually don't mind sharpening. I have a crapload of pocket knives, and it's almost therapeutic touching them up on a honing rod and strop. Can't tell you how many sharpening gimmicks I tried before settling on a very basic rod set. I do not want to go through that process again with turning tools. I'm sort of almost proficient with a whetstone, and HSS seems to respond well to it, so maybe I'll just keep it low-tech and stick with that.

I'm really getting to like my 1/2" oval skew for finishing, but I wouldn't mind something a little more substantial than the 3/8" spindle gouge for roughing - I just haven't figured out exactly what yet. But you have helped me narrow it down to HSS or maybe cryo treated HSS, at least for now.

Hey Danny,

Using that spindle gouge to get the shape and get close to the bushings, then using the skew to finish off your turning is a great way to do it! Get your hands on as much learning as you can for the skew chisel - once I got it figured out (and kept it razor sharp) I was able to jump right to the 1500 grit micro mesh and progress through to 12000 before applying my finish.

I sharpen my HSS chisels on a diamond stone, and I am very happy with the results. A little lapping fluid will make the stone last a lot longer.

A couple weeks ago, I picked up the 3-piece Benjamin's Best Carbide Wizard set from PSI. When I first started using them, I was super intimidated by how aggressive they were - I was getting chip-outs galore and digging in deep where I didn't want to dig in deep. It wasn't until I watched this video on carbide technique from Mark Dreyer that I realized I was holding the carbide chisels all wrong. (His video focuses on technique for acrylics, but I am using the same method for wood and it works great).

Now, I can get the blank down to size with the carbide cove cutter in about 5 minutes or less. I then come at it with the HSS skew to smooth it out and do final shaping.

Hope some of this is helpful!

Kind regards,
Chris

NJLJ, sharpening might be necessary when you get the tool. Quality tools as Robert Sorby and Crown are good right out of the box or bag. Have a Crown bowl gouge. My sharpening system is two steps from my lathe. I set the platform or arm according to the tool used. Takes longer for it to get up to speed than sharpen. After you turn for a while, you can tell the difference between sharp and needing sharpening.

Well, I took my first plunge into upgrades. I didn't go hog-wild, just a slightly bigger and hopefully better spindle gouge - BMWOOD 1/2" cryo treated M2. It didn't break the bank, but it itself was still more than the whole set of 3 that came with my startup package. Never heard of the brand before, but it gets good reviews, should hold ann edge longer, and should be easy to sharpen. Just a little step up, we'll see how it goes. Thanks again to all for the very helpful info!