your reply please

[greggas]

I voted no. Who are we to invade someone's privacy and decide weather or not they are worthy?

If you do not feel comfortable giving to someone when they request it then don't.

I have been amazed during my 20 +/- months on IAP with the generosity of many members. Many of you should be proud. But I have also been equally amazed at times by how often folks have been taken by obvious free-loaders ( for lack of a better term).

I have seen folks ask for handouts and then complain about what they received. I have read posts where people stated that they had no money to buy kits, supplies, etc and in the same post state that they were selling at shows !??! I would always say to myself If you cannot afford to go into business for your self don't go into business for yourself. I even remember the guy last year who posted that he was looking for anything that we could give him because he was out of work and posted a week later that he was going on vacation.

I imagine our perception of this situation may be dependent somewhat on our life experiences and where we live. I have lived in large cities in the northeast most of my life and have much experience with free-loaders, scam artists and thieves so perhaps I am more skeptical than most. I also consider myself very hard working and proud and tend not to ask for help. It is not a bad thing to ask for and not everybody that holds out a hand is scamming. But if you are going to help out with folks that you have never met and do not know if they are even giving you a real name keep in mind that you run the risk of being played,

All that said I reiterate my original point that we really do not have the right to vet out weather someone is "in need" or not. If you are not comfortable just don't do it and donate your time, money or whatever to a cause or person that you are sure of in your own area.

 

[phillywood]

I voted 'No'

I would neither like to be the person doing the 'inspection' nor the person being inspected.

If I was unfortunate enough to need help from my friends here on IAP, then I like to think that they would now know me well enough by now and not to have to check up on me.

If I hadn't been here long enough, or at least contributed in some way, then I wouldn't deserve any help.

There have been a few one shot con artists here ( remember that dodgy pic of the soil under the house? ) and we still have one guy that only comes here to plead poverty and beg for free stuff. I'd pay him a visit, but he would only get my boot!!
Strange how they all have enough money for a computer with internet connection though. :wink:

Steven, you will not do either, you have proven yourself to be worthy of all. No one will check on you. I was just mentioning the people who jump put of the wood work and ask and never been around.
And. your last sentence is my exact point.

 

[ctubbs]

I voted 'NO' but I did offer help. The decision to help or not is just mine and mine alone. If I were to help someone in need, then it is between myself and that person. If it is a few blanks, so what. I blow $6 on a small flat rate box to ship a hand full of wood to someone. The wood is free to me, local out of my back yard or scrap from somewhere I picked up. If anyone here needs some, I am still more than willing to help. Were we scamed? WE may never know, but we were willing to offer what we had to help someone we did not know. Charity is giving without any expectation of recognition or return. If your neighbor needs food or clothing, take a box of the needed material to their door, knock and leave. Do not stand there with your hand out waiting for them to come blubbering all over you with thanks. That is a terrible way to embarrass your neighbor and gains you nothing. If it is not charity, then why give it at all. So we have been scammed, so what. Grab your wounded pride, throw a bandage on it and go on to the next one. Heck fire, I have blown up more blanks than I had packaged up for this one. There, that is my rant for now. Thanks to all for putting up with me tonight. Oh yes, this is my opinion and it just isn't humble at all.
Charles

 

[blade.white]

I voted yes. If there is someone that lives in the same area and is willing they could pay a social visit. At least that's what we called it in the south. Get a better idea of how to best help the individual and a better understanding of the situation. If there is no one that lives close, give out of the goodness of your heart and hope it is received in good faith.

 

[navycop]

I vote no also. I hope that if I need wood, some one would help me. I am willing to pay shipping cost. It is easier to sent $5.00 for flat rate (or whatever it is now) an get a "ton" of wood then to pay $5.00 for one blank. Plus you have to factor in gas and the time driving...

 

[jaywood1207]

I voted 'No'

If I hadn't been here long enough, or at least contributed in some way, then I wouldn't deserve any help.

This is the point I think we all need to think about. It's nice to offer and help out somebody but to be soooo generous to a person that registers and the first post is asking for handouts should be a red flag for everyone. Get to know them first. I could be wrong but I don't think anyone asking for handouts needs them to make a living which means it can wait until they are better known especially in the case of the recent one who is doing shows and making money and has all the equipment. Common business sense says to reinvest some profits into more supplies to keep it going.

 

[fernhills]

Most requests are from an IAP member for someone in need and not the person who is receiving donations, he is not asking. I voted no, we are able to see a scam or not, in short order. Carl

 

[phillywood]

well, I 'll appreciate the folks that would like to give and it doesn't matter to them if the recipient will take advantage of the gift and same to those who would be cautious when they give. It's all in the spirit of giving and that's what makes this group a very unique one as for the giving group.
I am hoping that next time when some one is in need they would step forward and ask for our generosity knowing that we have good intentions and for them be wary that we'd know if they are up to a fraud.

Thanks to every one who voiced their opinion on this issue.

 

[alphageek]

I don't think it is up to the IAP as a whole to see if a person is legit or not simply because we are not donating as a whole.

Kinda goes with the buyer beware warning....giver beware.

*Edit* As a caveat, if the mods want to modify the rules in the trades and giveaways specifying requirements for donations then so be it.

Dan, I am with giving, and I don't think that Mods need to modify any rules. it's just our great giving spirit that wants to give and those who are indeed in need of it should benefit, not the scams.

I just want it made clear... the mods do NOT modify the rules... We just "enforce" them. All rule changes come through Jeff.

Dean Charlier
Assistant Moderator

 

[BKelley]

I try to help those who are less fortunate than me. If I do this then I've done right.
If it is a scam then that person will have to answer for his/her misgivings. We don't need a police department to examine these request, do what you feel is right and you won't have any regrets.

 

[Curtis]

I voted no as well but I would think that a person would be more active in the forum than on their first or second post asking for help or donations. If they havent posted at least a couple dozen times asking about stuff then it starts to smell bad for me.

I feel the same. I am new to this site but I have done a lot of post. I would not expect you guys to send me anything if I posted once or twice.

 

[ThePenWizard]

I voted no, because it is up to you to use your best judgement if you want to help someone. Once you give up your money it is no longer yours to worry about. If that person uses it for good then you are richer and so is he. If he uses it for the wrong purpose, his negativity will come back on him 10 fold. All you have to worry about is did you do the right thing, and since you did, good things will happen to you.

 

[jimm1]

I went no, BUT, I also live by "It is better to give than it is to receive."

Here is something else to ponder, how many contributions must a member have in order to ask for some help, 11?

 

[jasontg99]

I voted 'No'

I would neither like to be the person doing the 'inspection' nor the person being inspected.

If I was unfortunate enough to need help from my friends here on IAP, then I like to think that they would now know me well enough by now and not to have to check up on me.

If I hadn't been here long enough, or at least contributed in some way, then I wouldn't deserve any help.

There have been a few one shot con artists here ( remember that dodgy pic of the soil under the house? ) and we still have one guy that only comes here to plead poverty and beg for free stuff. I'd pay him a visit, but he would only get my boot!!
Strange how they all have enough money for a computer with internet connection though. :wink:

Well said. I voted no as well.

 

[Scotty]

Nope, if someone asks for help and you want to help, go ahead. If you don't want to help, don't do it. I would never go check someone out for asking for help. I would try to contact that person privately and make my decission from that. Shows poor taste to either go or ask someone to go check it out. My $.02.

 

[DocStram]

Wanted Free OneWay Lathe

Can somebody please give me a new OneWay Lathe? I prefer a Model 2436 but I guess a Model 2036 will do. Please select one of the following reasons for donating the lathe to me:

A. I am an old guy and us old people need all the help we can get.

B. I have a disability and us disabled people need handouts.

C. I spent all of my money on Lotus and Emperor Pen Kits and now I can't afford a lathe.

Thank you!
PS Please do not try giving me a PowerMatic 3520. I don't mean to sound ungrateful but I really need a OneWay.

 

[nava1uni]

I think that a person gives or doesn't give based on what he/she is feeling. I give because it feels good. I still think that there seems to be an overreaction to this event. People are assuming a lot without real facts. I read that some people did get thank you notes. Jeff's post stated that the woman had been ill. Who are we to decide if she was sick enough to warrant help or anything. I wish her well and hope that she recovers enough to post more. However, if she has read the numerous posts she might just be scared off, even afraid, to post. If it were me, I would hesitate to post as I would feel that I had already been judged and people were ready for a hanging.

 

[AKPenTurner]

Wow, Phillip, you're good at hitting the controversial subjects!!:biggrin::biggrin:

Anyway, I voted no as well. I agree with a lot of the posts here. We give because it is good to give.
Now there is nothing at all wrong with being cautious, and in a lot of situations, it would be great if someone could go to the person's house, make a new friend, and introduce them to the pen making world...

 

[Fred]

IF this thread is about the one I think it is, then if one were to look back at the original request, then it would be the first and only post this individual made. No introduction, no "Hello!", no comments, nothing ... just send me stuff.

That right there made me suspicious enough to not send anything.

Maybe if any person who needs something would simply contact the local IAP chapter in their area, quite possibly some one of that membership might live near enough to do a 'drive-by' and put eyes on the requesting individual/ Take a goodie bag from the members ... something.

Or ...

Maybe a separate Forum topic area labled 'Donated Supplies Needed' (or something) could be used to identify the area of the local Chapter first and they could possibly contact the requesting individual. Then the rest of us could be contacted by a known chapter member and ask for 'stuff.'

 

[robutacion]

How much "juice" have he got out of this orange...???

I think that a person gives or doesn't give based on what he/she is feeling. I give because it feels good. I still think that there seems to be an overreaction to this event. People are assuming a lot without real facts. I read that some people did get thank you notes. Jeff's post stated that the woman had been ill. Who are we to decide if she was sick enough to warrant help or anything. I wish her well and hope that she recovers enough to post more. However, if she has read the numerous posts she might just be scared off, even afraid, to post. If it were me, I would hesitate to post as I would feel that I had already been judged and people were ready for a hanging.

While I agree and understand with your sentiment on the last part of your comment, I believe that, "Tina" is reading every bit of this and while one would thing that "she" could feel scared in saying anything now, I'm once again giving her the benefit of a doubt and invite her to clear/clarify/put on ease, the situation...!

"She" seemed strong enough to come up here, among strangers and ask for help, one would thing that coming on site again and say, sorry for not posting nor thanking everyone that sent me stuff, I've been unable to do so...!

Would this answer all the questions raised, definitively not, would this be enough to put the situation on ease, probably yes...!

There will be a number of us that would prefer a more "validating" answer from "her" but that is an issue that we have to live with...!

Was and has been this case handled probably, yes and no, there wasn't a lot more a I could have done from the very beginning, and I tried to spin the fleshing lights of caution to everyone with my approach. Some may have respond accordingly and those are the ones that didn't lose anything nor are feeling scammed or betrayed about it, but make no mistake, I'm disappointed that I wasn't given (in my books) the opportunity to help someone in real need, I would be feeling a lot better with myself than, and after all this time and events, to be "inclined" to believe that I was right, unfortunately...!

There is no reward/award in getting to such conclusion and I would be much happier if I was proven wrong, wouldn't be the first time nor it will the last. Modesty and life experience has tough me to be cautious and alert to the things I most despite, these cases are certainly badly ratted in my books and I would like to thing that I would prefer be part of the cure than the disease, which is allowing people to get away with it.

There is so far, and I'm not nor I ever accused "Tina" of being a "scammer", a few lessons to be learn for those that care, I certainly know and feel sorry for those that in the future will come to us for help. This is obviously only applicable to those that we don't know or heard off, after all there is a common feeling of trust among those that daily (or close enough) maintain a presence in this community. Sure, you don't need to post everyday to be know and trusted by others, this sentiment is rarely found in any other community forums and we should all be proud that we can still maintain this "in risk to extinction" behavioural attitude among us.

Will this be enough to scare away/off any other scammers ready to target our community...??? yes and no. Is nothing worse for a scammer than being exposed, nothing worse is desired by other sacmmers than seeing a fellow scammer being exposed. Will this case and the many discussions within, help to make some people more alert and less prone to be part of the problem, I sincerely hope so...!

Cheers
George

 

[phillywood]

Wow, Phillip, you're good at hitting the controversial subjects!!:biggrin::biggrin:

Anyway, I voted no as well. I agree with a lot of the posts here. We give because it is good to give.
Now there is nothing at all wrong with being cautious, and in a lot of situations, it would be great if someone could go to the person's house, make a new friend, and introduce them to the pen making world...

IF this thread is about the one I think it is, then if one were to look back at the original request, then it would be the first and only post this individual made. No introduction, no "Hello!", no comments, nothing ... just send me stuff.

That right there made me suspicious enough to not send anything.

Maybe if any person who needs something would simply contact the local IAP chapter in their area, quite possibly some one of that membership might live near enough to do a 'drive-by' and put eyes on the requesting individual/ Take a goodie bag from the members ... something.

Or ...

Maybe a separate Forum topic area labeled 'Donated Supplies Needed' (or something) could be used to identify the area of the local Chapter first and they could possibly contact the requesting individual. Then the rest of us could be contacted by a known chapter member and ask for 'stuff.'

Silas, I was not accusing anyone or saying if she did scammed us or not simply was trying to warn that we should be cautious. As far as controversial, I just asked for opinion and only the ones who wanted to participate, did so. I have been taken before and i am just cautious to give only to the ones that I know that really need it. Those who know me they know that I go way out of my way to help another person in need, and never ever expected anything in return, but I definitely will not give in to a person for using the gift for the wrong reasons or feed a bad habit. Read what I colored in red of what Fred said, that's the whole idea.

 

[AKPenTurner]

Silas, I was not accusing anyone or saying if she did scammed us or not simply was trying to warn that we should be cautious. As far as controversial, I just asked for opinion and only the ones who wanted to participate, did so. I have been taken before and i am just cautious to give only to the ones that I know that really need it. Those who know me they know that I go way out of my way to help another person in need, and never ever expected anything in return, but I definitely will not give in to a person for using the gift for the wrong reasons or feed a bad habit. Read what I colored in red of what Fred said, that's the whole idea.

I'm not saying you're accusing anyone of any wrongs. The question you asked is completely appropriate, and is something we all need to think about, I'm also extremely cautious (probably more so than you), I very rarely participate in anything like this unless I am aware firsthand of the need.
Overall, I completely agree with you, it just surprised me that some folks seemed to get a little upset over this...

 

[jonrms]

I only voted no because of 2 reasons.. 1, why should we invade there space.. and priviacy. and the second is that I am in England who would come and visit me... although all are welcome!

 

[phillywood]

I only voted no because of 2 reasons.. 1, why should we invade there space.. and privacy. and the second is that I am in England who would come and visit me... although all are welcome!

I'd come and visit for good intentions and we go look for woods in the countryside, not for anything else. And, then for some English tea with milk in it. then we'll go to your shop and make some chips and saw dust.