What glues to use for tubes (wood and acrylic pens)

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Mengtian

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I know, probably asked a million times but I can't find a thread using the search.

I have been using a two part epoxy to glue in the tubes for wood pens (all three I have made LOL). I see people using CA. Which glues do you guys prefer for wood and for acrylics?
 
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Mengtian said:
I know, probably asked a million times but I can't find a thread using the search.
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Ask away!!! Other's will also be wondering. :)

I also use 5 minute epoxy, but I glue up and go to sleep!!! I have had great success planning my turning. Just 30 minutes ago I glued up 3 pens with epoxy (2 blank kits = 6 blanks), and I'll let them set until Friday PM. If I just plan ahead, I'm good! If working a bunch (10-20), then do in batches and stay a day ahead. I also do this with my Alumilite casting: Cast, let set for 3-5 days. Patience is not easy for me... so I need to work at it!

Have FUN!
 
What clothing do I wear to this event tomorrow?

casual?
no-pants?
business casual?
formal?
beach clothing?

The answer to this is dress accordingly to what you are doing. ...

Same holds true in the glue market as well. You must use the glue that is best suited for the materials you are working with.

There is no single 'best' glue for everything, material A may be 90% good while material B may be 30% good. There is that much of a spread.
 
edstreet said:
What clothing do I wear to this event tomorrow?

casual?
no-pants?
business casual?
formal?
beach clothing?

The answer to this is dress accordingly to what you are doing. ...

Same holds true in the glue market as well. You must use the glue that is best suited for the materials you are working with.

There is no single 'best' glue for everything, material A may be 90% good while material B may be 30% good. There is that much of a spread.
Click to expand...

You must use the glue that is best suited for the materials you are working with.
Click to expand...

Uh....I believe that is why I asked the question: what do folks use? Enlighten me.....what do you use for different materials?
 
If the material can flex then I use a glue with flexibility.

If it is required to be very rigid then something non-flexible.

If there's zero gap to be filled and it's a smooth fit then something anerobic works very good.

If there is gaps to be filled and they are LARGE then something mixed with a filler, i.e. gunstock bedding compound is called for.
 
Ed: The OP is asking for information, not areas to research. If you have specific suggestions, I also am curious.

edstreet said:
If the material can flex then I use a glue with flexibility. Like What:

If it is required to be very rigid then something non-flexible. Like What:

If there's zero gap to be filled and it's a smooth fit then something anerobic works very good. Like What:

If there is gaps to be filled and they are LARGE then something mixed with a filler, i.e. gunstock bedding compound is called for. Like What:
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Truly not trying to poke, I actually could use the info myself :wink:
 
Early on, I tried both CA and Gorilla glue. Had problems with both. I started using two-part epoxy then, and I still do. For everything from wood, plastic, and antler.
 
I've been using Loctite GO2 glue lately. It works great on about anything even segmenting. I segmented some celluloid and it didn't melt it like many other glues do. I glue up the day before I turn. Wally world sells it for $4.97 I don't waste nearly as much as I do when using epoxy
 
mark james said:
Ed: The OP is asking for information, not areas to research. If you have specific suggestions, I also am curious. Truly not trying to poke, I actually could use the info myself :wink:
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No problem at all. Replies SHOULD be like this.

I'm not sure what thread I posted it in but I did post the results,to of the great epoxy test we did in a k ice forum some years ago. It was a real eye opener as a number of glues and epoxy was tested. The results changed my view on glue forever. Lecture has a product selector that takes many Inge into account. I will attempt to no the post not can upload it again it's on my desktop.
 
This is one of those questions that is going to lead you in LOTS of directions. I'll tell you - I use CA for all materials to glue in tubes. Some will say that they get better results with Epoxy, but for me epoxy is a pain. I've tried lots of things (gorilla glue, epoxy, and more) - but for me CA works just fine more than 99% of the time and its the easiest for me overall.

So to each their own... The one tip I have is that if you paint the inside of your acrylics (and if you don't, in many cases you should!) then no matter what glue, don't rush things - let the paint cure.
 
showcaser said:
I've been using Loctite GO2 glue lately. It works great on about anything even segmenting. I segmented some celluloid and it didn't melt it like many other glues do. I glue up the day before I turn. Wally world sells it for $4.97 I don't waste nearly as much as I do when using epoxy
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I've wondered about glues like this. How long does it take to set? Have you tried coloring it with acrylic or enamel paint?
 
Have to be honest here when you say you did a search and could not find any results is somewhat surprising. This maybe the most asked question on this site. What you will find there is no definite answer. Many options out there and just about all work well when done properly. I use SystemIII epoxy for all materials. I find it to be the best gap filling, flexible enough when needed, and strong enough when needed. I think many people get hung up on what glue holds well enough to last.

Many times the problem comes in the first part of the operation after drilling. That is the turning part. If you do not use proper technique and proper tools and sharp tools any glue will fail. The glue used must be gap filling and total coverage is a must. You will never ever get a tube to sit perfectly against the material you drilled so it needs to have gap filling qualities. After the pen is assembled the blank sits between the pen fittings that are pressed into a tube. The stress is now taken off the blank. Yes it can crack or move somewhat but for the most part that is due to prepping of the blank to begin with and some materials are just prone to cracking.

So my answer is try different glues for yourself and choose the one or more options that work best for you and don't worry about what others use. We have all given the different options and basically what they are is what we individually have found. I will tell you a fact that all epoxy as well as all CA glues are not the same. Results vary from user to user. As far as epoxy goes the faster the set time the less the strength. Again though you can get away with any because you use sharp tools and implement proper turning techniques. Good luck and happy turning.
 
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For wood to metal: Gorilla glue, loctite E-120HP, K&G epoxy, Gold shafting epoxy, Acraglass.
(avoid anaerobic curing adhesives, jb weld)

For Major gap filling: Acraglass is designed for this very purpose.
(avoid gorilla glue or any other polyurethane expanding types)

For metal to metal: Loctite speedbonder 324, JB weld, PC7.
(avoid any CA's)

For metal to man made materials (i.e. G10, micarta, etc.): Loctite 324 speedbonder or any overall use ones.

For overall use: Loctite E-120HP, K&G Epoxy, Goldsmith golf shafting epoxy, Acraglass.


those that FAILED the test miserably:
Devcon 2 ton
Devcon 5 ton
All superglue including rubber additives
Anchor tite marine epoxy
West systems
Acragel.

Keep in mind the above test was done by extreme torture testing and strength was the ultimate goal. Test that were performed was dishwasher, intense hammering, freezing, dropping, bending, rotating, submerging.

However strength may not be the #1 critical issue needed when putting brass tubes in pen blanks but coverage and strength does indeed help greatly in blowouts and the lifespan of the product.

The other test showed that bead blasting provided a greatly superior surface for adhesive bonding. Also tested was the sanding materials (as we see pen tubes from PSI) and untreated. Sandpaper was marginally better than no prep work at all.
 

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I haven't tried it with paint. I imagine it would work. It doesn't have a strong chemical smell to it. I usually let the blanks sit over night. It says it sets in 30 minutes and cures 24 hours. It is a flexible glue almost rubbery when dried on the ends. Tenacious stuff though. You can tell that it coats the tube well.
I also tried the JB weld tan epoxy(right next to it at Wally world),it works well and gives 6 minutes working time instead of 5.
 
As noted by others, there are many alternatives and a lot of it boils down to personal preference & technique. Here's what I do and I'm quite satisfied with the results.

I use CA exclusively for both wood & acrylics. For acrylics (unless it's very opaque), I paint both the tubes & the inside of the blanks with spray Krylon paint & let it cure for at least 2 days before gluing.

I quit sanding or roughing up tubes long ago. Others may disagree, but I haven't had any problems with CA glue on un-roughed tubes.

A few things that I've learned along the way that really help:
Let the blanks cool after drilling & before gluing - I usually wait at least 10-15 minutes.
Clean the drilled hole, but don't blow it out with your own breath - use dry, compressed air.
Test fit the tube to make sure it slides in & out of the hole fairly easily with very little gap. If it takes noticeable force, redrill with a 1/64" or 0.5 mm larger bit.
Use a liberal amount of glue on the tube and insert with an in-out & twisting motion to get good coverage on the tube & the hole.
Let the glue cure well before turning - I try to give it at least 24 hours.

I've tried several different brands of CA, but the one I like best is 2P-10 by Fastcap. It's available directly from Fastcap or on Amazon & ebay. I usually use the medium for gluing tubes, but they also have a jel grade that has some gap-filling characteristics & I use that on the occasional blank when I drill the hole a bit too large. I get more consistent results with this brand & it has a longer shelf life than other brands.

YMMV (your mileage may vary)
Edgar
 
I have been using the 15 minute epoxy from Penn State for a number of years now and have not had a problem as of yet. I don't turn my blanks the same day I glue so I'm not worried about the glue curing. I also will tint the epoxy with a dab of Testors model paint when gluing acrylics just in case I scratch the paint inside of the blank. Hope this helps,

Bill
 
I use 5 minute 2 part epoxy for all tube glue ups, acrylic, antler, PR, wood because of the flexible bond and gap filling qualities and I think it holds better than CA if you have to paint your tubes or blanks inside. A ridged bone is OK under ideal conditions but I sometimes have an OOPS so I like my blanks to have a little OOPS insurance built in.
 
I like the 5 and 15 minute epoxies from Zap for PR, acrylic and Alumilite. For wood I use Gorilla glue 'fast' because it's white, and let it cure 24 hours. I also have use epoxy with success. I almost never use CA for gluing tubes any more, but when I did I would, with wood, soak the hole with a thin, wait for it to dry, then use a med or thick on the tube and after it dried, drip more thin into any 'gaps' that had occurred. The CA is brittle and if the wood or acrylic was brittle, it seemed more prone to cracking. I have had less trouble with cracking after switching to Gorilla and epoxy.

I have a tube of Loctite G02 glue but for some reason have not tried a pen tube with it. I will have to try and see what happens!
 
I stumbled upon this thread and I have several questions....

Is Gorilla Glue 5 minute epoxy the type of epoxy that will work? I guess I am asking is all 5 minute epoxy the same?

I see that some types of 5 minute epoxy have different "strength" ratings - does that matter?

I see super glue in Lowes - like Gorilla super glue liquid and gel - is that the same as the CA glue in a wood store?

The wood store carries thin, medium, and thick - is there a difference in which should be used for gluing tubes versus applying a CA coat?

Sorry for the questions, but I have accidentally glued some tubes to blanks using CA and would like to try epoxy but I want to understand the differences....

Thanks in advance for any replies,

Bob
 
Bob Kardell said:
I stumbled upon this thread and I have several questions....

Is Gorilla Glue 5 minute epoxy the type of epoxy that will work? I guess I am asking is all 5 minute epoxy the same?
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No, not all '5 minute' epoxy is the same. Each can have additives that is in addition to the epoxy that performs different tasks. Also there is more than one type of substance that sets up in that amount of time. The best you can do is pull the MSDS and READ READ READ then UNDERSTAND UNDERSTAND and UNDERSTAND what the ingredients does and how the product works.

Bob Kardell said:
I see that some types of 5 minute epoxy have different "strength" ratings - does that matter?
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Some may say it's on a pen tube it does not matter. The answer is yes and no. Yes it does matter as you are turning/shaving/cutting/etc the material to make it round and you need something to structurally hold it and keep it from breaking. Blowouts can occurs because of failure in the glue joint, improper inadequate and sub-par as they are they need to be improved upon.

No it does not matter as the end fittings contacts with the blank and metal tube and forms it's own bond, many use products like locktite on that so you get additive strength and support. In truth the metal tube can spin all day long but as long as the blank itself is glued to the metal trim it's good to go. Now impacts on the blank in a non-bonded vs bonded area can result in problems.

Bob Kardell said:
I see super glue in Lowes - like Gorilla super glue liquid and gel - is that the same as the CA glue in a wood store?
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Not all CA (superglue) is the same either. They vary greatly by additives. to date I am aware of something like 8 different main ingredients that is listed as "CA glue", each performs vastly different and have unique properties in their own rights that can be manipulated to maximize the usage.

Some seems to turn with a heavy hand and need more strength while others have a soft touch and very little strength is needed, mileage does vary by turner and material.

Bob Kardell said:
The wood store carries thin, medium, and thick - is there a difference in which should be used for gluing tubes versus applying a CA coat?
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Viscosity of CA, centipose (CPS), is often regulated by additions of additives, called thickening agents. Some of these includes items such as Methyl methacrylate polymer (MMP) which is the same ingredient found in casting solutions.

I have stated a number of times that ca finishes should be flexible while structural bonds should not. Flexible additives such as Ethylene Copolymer Rubber and Methoxyethyl works VERY well and eliminates tensions that generally leads to cracks.

Bob Kardell said:
Sorry for the questions, but I have accidentally glued some tubes to blanks using CA and would like to try epoxy but I want to understand the differences....

Thanks in advance for any replies,

Bob
Click to expand...

With epoxy you typically have a longer wait time before you can use it. Just because it's 'epoxy' does not mean it is stronger.

Hope this helps :)
 
Bob, first welcome to the site where things go round and round:)

Your questions are legit for beginners and get asked alot so do not be sorry for the questions. Ed gave you some basic answers to work with.

You will get 100 different answers from 50 different people because there is no right or wrong answers. This will be true also when you get into the finishing stages of pen making. You will have those that use epoxy such as myself and those that use CA. All glues no matter what they are are not the same. The shorter open time of epoxy the less strength. Does not mean it is no good for gluing tubes in blanks. Whatever glue you use make sure it is a gap filling type glue for gluing tubes to blanks because there will always be a space between them and that will be the weakest link in the bond. As mentioned above the strength of glue basically comes into play when turning the blank. Sharp tools and proper techniques can compensate for weaker glues. Once the fittings are pressed into the tubes the blank has far less stress on it.

You will get people here now that will tell you what glues they use and why. Does not mean it is the right or wrong glue. It is the glue that has worked for them. We all develop our own systems and materials that works and it basically comes from trial and error. You get starting points by what others use but in time you will find your technique.

By the way I use System III T88 epoxy for all my gluing needs. If i need to use CA glue I use Satellite City glues. (Hot stuff) .

Good luck and again welcome
 
I always use 5 minute Barrel Bond epoxy. I let them sit for at least 11 hours for the epoxy to reach full strength. I switched from CA after several pens failed while turning. With epoxy, I have had zero failures.
 
My process for gluing tubes is as follows while wearing nitrile gloves:

1. Clean tube with acetone to remove any wax or oils.
2. Rough tube with 120 grit sandpaper.
3. Block ends of tube with dental wax.
4. Mix up 5 minute epoxy. Wipe a small amount inside one end of blank.
5. Wipe epoxy on tube.
6. Push tube into end of blank with no epoxy. Turn while pushing and partially pull back. Then push and turn until tube is almost out the other side.
7. Wait at least 12 hours.

I use this process for all blanks: wood, stabilized wood, Alumilite casting, and antler.
 
I use thick CA. Wait 10 minutes (five minutes if I'm in a rush) and they are ready to square and turn. Wood or acrylic. All the others adhesives mentioned seem to work fine as well.
 
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