What do I need next?

[BobRad]

Just trying to get a feel about what I need to start again seriously. I don't want to get things that are luxury additions, but might as well start by getting the right stuff.

I have a very full (but small and crowded) workshop, band saw, table saw, lots of hand and power tools, calipers, etc.. My lathe is an industrial 220volt Italian Mini-Max copy lathe. It suffers from having a copy lathe attachment that makes it less than an ideal lathe, but I'm not about to buy another one. I also have a very old Unimat mini lathe, but its not really good for pen turning, its basically designed for small metal parts,

I have a pretty complete set of large (mostly Sorby) and mini lathe tools, but despite all that, I'm not that experienced in lathe work - mostly I've done small custom cabinet work.

1. Based on some reading, I was thinking of getting an oval skew chisel, but I've also seen advice against it, due to it being harder to sharpen,

2. My lathe tool rests are very poor in design, the small one is 10" x 30mm post - I can just fit it in with a full size mandrel. I was thinking of getting one I've seen listed in this forum (rherrell), but also have been looking at http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=46452&cat=1,330,49238&ap=1. since that one seems it would help in turning things besides pens. Also I can drive over to Lee Valley and pick one up. Anything I order from the US, has delivery costs and I also can get hit by additional customs duties.

3. The Woodchuck PenPro - it seems this would be good if I start working with composites, what about for general hardwood and acrylics?

 

[seawolf]

You have a unimat for small metal parts. Would that include a 30mm post and top bar of the lengths of your choice?
Mark

 

[BobRad]

NO the unimat is totally non-standard

I dont thinkg the bed would even take the length of a mandrel and no morse tapers on it

all accesories for it are Unimat only and this lathe is at least 40 years old


Its the Mini-Max that take the big stuff and has a Morse #2

 

[1080Wayne]

The Lee Valley tool rests are very good . Carbide tooling works on all materials . I use the Skogger from Wood-of-1-kind .

 

[yost69]

You have a unimat for small metal parts. Would that include a 30mm post and top bar of the lengths of your choice?
Mark

NO the unimat is totally non-standard

I dont thinkg the bed would even take the length of a mandrel and no morse tapers on it
Mark

I think he meant could you make a tool rest on your metal lathe.

Ben

 

[BobRad]

lol - it was late last night and I missed that

In theory yes, but I'd have to get the right steel stock and probably make a lot of errors trying to make it. I used to use it for make small brass fittings for wood project - nothing really fancy. Also used it for drilling holes and milling opening in aluminum plates for custom electronics.

 

[mredburn]

The Unimat will be great for making your own pen parts when you get to that level. NIbs, Center Bands, and Finials. You can also use it to make custom bushings. There are adjustable mandrels you can fit in the chuck, trim it to your length and turn one blank at a time. But that won make a lot of pens quickly. You could go right to turning between centers and not use a mandrel.
Mike

 

[jskeen]

I tend to agree that a good toolrest is pretty critical to making good quality pens. That system from lee valley looks to be a good quality set, has all the options you might need, and does come with the 30mm post you need. Obviously, from the website, you will need to call them and have them order in the 30mm post for you, then you can go pick it up along with whatever size top bar you decide to start out with. I would suggest that shorter is probably better. You can move a short rest from one half of a blank to another, but you can't fit a longer one in if you are only turning one half blank at a time between centers.

As for lathe tools, it sounds like you have plenty to choose from. All you really need is a med to large spindle or roughing gouge, a skew of some sort, and a thin parting tool. I would advise you to start working with what you have, learn how to use them and the strengths and weaknesses of each design, and then make the decision to purchase more tools, after you have a better idea of what you need. If you have money to start with, I would invest in some method of sharpening the tools you have, rather than buying more tools. If you have something already, great, if not there are many great threads on sharpening here. But some sort of sharpening system is not a luxury, it is a necessity. It does not necessarily need to be expensive, it don't have to be a slow speed, water cooled specialty rig with tons of attachments either. A good fine grit wheel on a standard 6 or 8 inch grinder with some sort of home made toolrest is quite satisfactory for sharpening gouges and parting tools. A belt sander or disk sander with a different type of homemade jig will do just fine for sharpening a skew. A few hours improvising and learning to use your sharpening tools will save TONS of time and headaches blowing up blanks, repairing poorly turned surfaces and cursing your bad luck trying to turn pens. And in case I didn't mention it, sharpen your tools often!

As for pen turning itself, you have two options to start. You can start turning on a mandrel with bushings, or you can start turning between centers, either with or without bushings (for the most part). Both have their strengths and drawbacks. I personally started out with a mandrel, but switched to between centers because of the inherent accuracy issues of mandrels. For either, you must have a good quality 60 degree live center for your lathe.

There is also the question of how to drill your pen blanks. You can invest in a pen vise and use a drill press, or you can invest in a pair of chucks for your lathe and drill there. A blank vise and drill press is pretty much a unitask tool, where as a set of lathe chucks can be used many different ways. If you have a drill press, the vise is probably the lowest cost option, but I prefer the drill on lathe approach myself. This leaves my drill press free to be used as an assembly press. A few more details on your lathe would be necessary to make a recommendation on lathe chucks however. Does it have Morse tapers in both head and tail stocks? what size? is the head stock arbor threaded? again, what size?

The last question is, how soon do you want to learn how to use CA to finish your pens? You can either start out trying all the other options, spend time and money and ending up with a number of poorly finished pens that either need to be reworked, or discarded, and then learn to use CA. Or ,you can start out trying to apply ca, and end up with a number of poorly finished pieces of scrap wood that are no great loss, and once you get the process down, start turning out quality pens with a finish that will last indefinitely. I went the first route myself, but wouldn't recommend it to anybody, unless I really disliked them for some reason

The last and most important tool you need is the ability to operate the search functions here at the IAP. Almost any question you might possibly decide to ask has been asked, answered, analyzed, and beaten half to death on here at least a couple of times. If you can find them, you can then read all the answers, and then armed with all that conflicting information, reach a decision on how you want to proceed. (ok, it's not quite that bad) But seriously, a little research goes a long way, and is usually quicker than asking a question, and waiting for all the people who think they know the answers to post their reply's again.

There, you have the Skeen's half caffienated summary of how to start turning pens. Feel free to ask questions, disagree with me, call me an idiot, whatever it's free!

 

[BobRad]

Thanks for that - you just raised a number of questions to complicate things.

I have a basic drill press and a pen vice and a regular machinists vice, and thats what I used before for drilling so I'm inclined to stick with it. I picked up last week and lever operated pen pressure assembly thingy.

I have a dry double wheel small grinder and a delta wet wheel http://www.amazon.com/Delta-23-700-Universal-Horsepower-Sharpener/dp/B0000223ZT - but my sharpening skills are on planes, chisels and knives, not gouges - I have a jig for skew chisels and a scraper burnisher - never used.

The lathe is an older version of this http://www.minimaxcanada.com/pdf_specialized_woodworking_machinery/minimax_lathe_t124.pdf (without the safety sheild) It has MT#2 in both headstock and tailstock - I have a 3rd party 1/2" chuck and a bunch of accessories/chucks for treen and bowl work. I'd rather start with a mandrel since I have a few and experiment without later. It has a threaded headstock - I assume with anon-metric thread roughly 1.2" OD and 8TPS. I think my live center is 60 - just by eyeballing it

As far as CA, you have me in a dilemma I got too much to learn right now, don't want to add that - but the way you phrase it sounds like I should

 

[Fred]

Bob ... it's all good information. About the only thing you -and the rest of us - don't have enough of is time to do all we want to do. Doing a 'search' here will gather you a bunch of reading material and will definitely be quicker than waiting for a bunch of answers.

BTW, the skew is a wonderful tool and should be easy to sharpen with the proper jig. When you do sharpen it make sure you have it so danged sharp that it is "scary sharp." Being that sharp will help eliminate a lot of sanding when you get to the finishing stage.

I use my 1" oval Sorbey each and every time I turn on my lathe. It is definitely my favorite and most used tool of them all. :biggrin:

 

[jskeen]

ok, well it does indeed sound like you are pretty much on your way without too much additional cash outlay. the delta will do nicely for putting a razor edge on your skew's for you, and you can definitely use a standard two wheel grinder for gouges. All you need is some way of repeatably indexing the butt of your gouge the same distance in front of the wheel. a clamp and some lines on the table in front of the grinder will work in a pinch. a sliding arm with a v-block of some sort is even better. A fine wheel will take a little less off your tools, but with a light touch, you can use the stock ones for a while. Just rotate the gouge from side to side along it's axis just enough to put a fresh edge on it.

Don't know where you are as far as penturning itself, but it sounds like all you need is a few kits and some bushings to get started. There are a couple of suppliers up there on the chilly side of the border that can get you what you need without those annoying customs folks getting in the way.

Drop me a PM if you feel the need.

James