Casting Vintage 80s Solid Color Blanks?

[jrista]

I am trying to find materials for vintage 80s (and late 70s) colored blanks. Solid colors, along the lines of "avocado green", "harvest gold", "teal", that slight "off-white", etc. I was originally thinking Bakelite, but, trying to find solid color bakelite of sufficient size seems all but impossible, unless anyone knows of a source.

There may also be health concerns with bakelite, I wasn't aware it included asbestos and large quantities of formaldehide, so now I am considering alternatives. I have not really found any solid color existing pen blanks like these, so I'm wondering if anyone knows of existing epoxy-compatible dyes in these colors, or perhaps a mixing chart for say mixing mixol (of which I have the full range) to make these colors.

Thanks for any help and ideas!

 

[RobS]

contact this company, and let them know what custom color you are looking for:

Divine Pigments and Powders

A divine collection of casting supplies featuring out Divine Pigments, Divine Sparkle, and Glow Powders!

didtcs.com

 

[PatrickR]

Take a look at blanks at these. Some of the colors may work for you.

Beaufort Ink - Semplicita SHDC pen blanks

Semplicita SHDC pen blanks

www.beaufortink.co.uk

 

[peytonstreet]

With trial and error you can probably match those colors in alumilite with their dyes. It'll be a lot of trial and error, but you could pour two rods at a time and cover a lot of ground.

 

[jrista]

Take a look at blanks at these. Some of the colors may work for you.

Beaufort Ink - Semplicita SHDC pen blanks

Semplicita SHDC pen blanks

www.beaufortink.co.uk

Some of those just might do, actually! Devon Cream, Ivory, Olive Green, Shades of Tiffany are either dead on or fairly close.

 

[jrista]

So, I have a full set of Mixol dye. I just noticed that some of those colors are pretty much perfect as well. That said, if I were to try and mix some of those, I really want a SOLID color, not something translucent.

It looks like Alimulite has a white resin, which I think would make a better base than a clear resin, and help me achieve the "Solid" colors I'm looking for better. Has anyone used Alumilite White? Any tips?

 

[PatrickR]

Some of those just might do, actually! Devon Cream, Ivory, Olive Green, Shades of Tiffany are either dead on or fairly close.

Yes, they have some unique colors. They are not translucent and good to turn.
your idea of casting your own would be fine, although difficult to duplicate the color from batch to batch. You would be dealing with very small amounts of dye. If that's not a concern then make your own. Be as precise as possible and take notes. Also be prepared to do a lot of experiments.
Unfortunately there won't be any formulas for what you are doing.

 

[jrista]

I guess I'm honestly looking more for vintage colors older than and up through the 80s. The colors I named earlier, like Avocado Green and Harvest Gold, are actually 60s colors. Some trace back even farther than that, Antique Gold and Cadmium Red are 20s colors!

Seems solid color blanks aren't really much of a thing, so I guess I'll be doing some experimentation myself to determine how to formulate these colors myself with my own dyes and cast them myself. I have a couple of pen molds that can make 5 blanks at a time. Smallish, though, so I may need to expand my mold collection to get some capable of 7/8th inch blanks.

And time to do some experimentation with Alumilite White!

 

[duncsuss]

Vermont Freehand has bakelite rods ... LINK

 

[PatrickR]

Solid colors definitely are limited, but available at a number of places.
Using white as the base will be troublesome for a lot of colors. You will get great pastels but also a lot of muddy looking colors. I have used powdered artist pigments combined with dye in the past with good results.

 

[jrista]

Solid colors definitely are limited, but available at a number of places.
Using white as the base will be troublesome for a lot of colors. You will get great pastels but also a lot of muddy looking colors. I have used powdered artist pigments combined with dye in the past with good results.

The pigments you used, were they solid color, or like mica pigments that sparkled?

Any links to the pigmetns you used?

 

[jrista]

Vermont Freehand has bakelite rods ... LINK

Thank you for this resource! Looks like they have some ebonite rods in colors very close to what I'm looking for that would do nicely.

I found some more info on bakelite, and I wasn't aware of just how much toxins were in it, so I think I'd use that as a last resort. I really do like the finish bakelite has when it comes to that vintage look...but, those ebonite rods seem to be pretty close.

 

[PatrickR]

The pigments you used, were they solid color, or like mica pigments that sparkled?

Any links to the pigmetns you used?

Here is a link to an old, well known manufacturer and it is available many places.

Pigment - Gamblin Artists Colors

gamblincolors.com

no sparkle, totally different than mica. Watch the ingredients though as many pigments are toxic.
Bakelite is very expensive. I have used it once, it turns and finishes very well. i got some on ebay from Germany And it is very unstable in color but I dont know if that is common.

 

[MRDucks2]

If you study how to mix colors or go hang out at a real paint shop for a day you will learn a lot.

I have considered Alumilite white but have not tried it. I do know that if add a little bit of white for light tones or black for darker tones you can assure the blanks are not translucent. Yep u can make solid color blanks of about any color of you understand how to get there and have the right combination of colors.

You must keep good notes on where you start and your adjustments. I also recommend starting out enough room in your resin to always add more resin.

Start with half the amount you need, get to the color you want then add a quarter of the amount more resin mixing thoroughly to see if the dilution really affects the color.

If it does, adjust using as little dye/pigment as possible and add the rest of your resin. You now know what the effect of mixing both parts of your resin will be and can plan accordingly.

You don't want to use to much dye or pigment or you can run the risk of a flash cure. A big hard foamy looking mess. Fascinating to see happen realizing there is nothing you can do to stop it. Truest me, I know!

 

[PatrickR]

I worked as a screen printer, every color was matched by eye from scratch. It took about a year for me to become proficient at it.

 

[jrista]

Thanks for the insights, @MRDucks2 and @PatrickR. I am familiar with color theory, and I've mixed paints in the past. Its been a while though. I was trying to find color tables or charts that had actual 60s, 70s, and 80s colors on them, and more ideally formulas for how to mix. I did find some RGB and HEX color palettes that indicate the relative ratios of your standard Red, Green and Blue color blending ratios. I may just give that a try...see if I can blend things like Harvest Gold, Avocado Green, a proper Teal and some of these other colors (numerous browns, tans, etc. used in those eras too) from primaries. I figure I'll have to convert RGB ratios into CMY ratios, then blend CMY, given I'll be working with pigments (subtractive model, technically) rather than light (additive model) like RGB on a computer screen...but there are calculators that can perform those conversions for you (and I'm a software engineer by day, so...I can write something if it doesn't exist! )

 

[PatrickR]

This process may get you in the ball park but that's about it. CMYK numbers come from offset printing, giving a percentage of a color applied as overlapping dots.
PMS numbers would be slightly more useful. You get a formula based on known offset ink colors to be applied as a solid.
it really just comes back to doing it by eye with a lot of trial and error. How much will depend on how close you want to be.
depending on your intended use, a far easier approach would be to find paint in the colors, paint tubes and clear cast them.

 

[jrista]

This process may get you in the ball park but that's about it. CMYK numbers come from offset printing, giving a percentage of a color applied as overlapping dots.
PMS numbers would be slightly more useful. You get a formula based on known offset ink colors to be applied as a solid.
it really just comes back to doing it by eye with a lot of trial and error. How much will depend on how close you want to be.
depending on your intended use, a far easier approach would be to find paint in the colors, paint tubes and clear cast them.

Yeah, I don't want a clear look. I want that solid material look, and a clear cast tube just wouldn't look right. I guess it will just be trial and error...

 

[PatrickR]

Let us see how it turns out.

 

[jrista]

Let us see how it turns out.

I'm going to give it a try in the morning here. I have some clear alumilite, and I am going to try to pigment it with mixol. Going to try making some avocado green, teal, harvest gold, and an appropriate brown (although, I'm also considering combining some wenge wood with the solid colors and chrome kits as well, and may also try some segmenting with aluminum for highlights.)

 

[darrin1200]

I have tried Alumilite white, and found it not very viable. It has a pot life of two minutes. My attempt, actually solidified mid pour. I was try to mix two blend red, white and blue. It was an experiment, so I was able to laugh.
With a single colour, you may get it to work, but your prices will have to be perfect.

 

[Sylvanite]

My first attempts with Alumilite White set up before I could complete the pour, but I eventually learned how to get good opaque blanks and I used to sell them through ExoticBlanks. Alumilite White has a very short pot life, so you need to have everything laid out and ready before mixing the A and B sides. Add all the dye(s) to the A side and mix it completely. Note that the mixed color will not match the final blank color -- Alumilite White resin starts out clear but turns white as it hardens. Keep good notes if you want to produce repeatable results. Measure out the same weight of B as the combined weight of A and the dye (if you used enough dye to be significant). Mix the two sides and pour immediately. If using a pressure pot, put the mold in the pot and pressurize as quickly as possible (I generally poured with the mold already in the pot).

Of all the synthetic materials I have turned, Alumilite White is by far the easiest to turn and polish. Also note that the white color will turn yellow slightly with age, and some of the dyes (particularly red) fade a little with exposure to UV light.

I hope that helps,
Eric

 

[jrista]

I have tried Alumilite white, and found it not very viable. It has a pot life of two minutes. My attempt, actually solidified mid pour. I was try to mix two blend red, white and blue. It was an experiment, so I was able to laugh.
With a single colour, you may get it to work, but your prices will have to be perfect.

My first attempts with Alumilite White set up before I could complete the pour, but I eventually learned how to get good opaque blanks and I used to sell them through ExoticBlanks. Alumilite White has a very short pot life, so you need to have everything laid out and ready before mixing the A and B sides. Add all the dye(s) to the A side and mix it completely. Note that the mixed color will not match the final blank color -- Alumilite White resin starts out clear but turns white as it hardens. Keep good notes if you want to produce repeatable results. Measure out the same weight of B as the combined weight of A and the dye (if you used enough dye to be significant). Mix the two sides and pour immediately. If using a pressure pot, put the mold in the pot and pressurize as quickly as possible (I generally poured with the mold already in the pot).

Of all the synthetic materials I have turned, Alumilite White is by far the easiest to turn and polish. Also note that the white color will turn yellow slightly with age, and some of the dyes (particularly red) fade a little with exposure to UV light.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Thanks for the info, guys. I didn't realize it had such a short pot life...that is rather limited! I think the alumilite clear I have has a 15 minute pot life, which is more workable, and would let me blend multiple colors before I had to put it in the pressure pot.

I think it was John U, that I saw a video from, where he would mix the colors into the resin before adding the hardener. I've never tried that before, but, I wonder if it would work with Alumilite White. If the white yellows with age...in all honesty, that might enhance the "vintage/retro" look I'm trying to achieve. So that might be fine!

I think the trickiest part of this, is going to be measuring the mixol. The droppers that come on the bottles are quirky, and I may need to find a way to more accurately measure out the dyes. I am thinking, I may just try with tiny amounts from toothpick dips, and mix on a piece of wax paper, just to see if I can get the kinds of colors I am looking for, then try to mix the same amounts into the resins themselves. At lest then, I'll have an idea of the ratios.

I have this HDPE rack system I picked up from PTownSubbie, which is quite nice. I will pour the mold on that, then I can just put the rack in the pot and turn on the pressure.

 

[jrista]

Well...it may be a bust for today. It seems my pressure pot is leaking a bit. I filled it up with pressure earlier, and its down in pressure by about 30% now... I thought I had some pressure problems the last time I created some resin blanks, which is why I tested the pot. Anyone know how to track down slow pressure leaks in a pressure pot?

 

[PatrickR]

Well...it may be a bust for today. It seems my pressure pot is leaking a bit. I filled it up with pressure earlier, and its down in pressure by about 30% now... I thought I had some pressure problems the last time I created some resin blanks, which is why I tested the pot. Anyone know how to track down slow pressure leaks in a pressure pot?

Soapy water in a spray bottle will show where your leak is. My pot leaks a little but I don't worry about it, just leave it hooked up to the compressor. As long as it doesn't run excessively, no problem.

 

[darrin1200]

I think the trickiest part of this, is going to be measuring the mixol. The droppers that come on the bottles are quirky, and I may need to find a way to more accurately measure out the dyes. I am thinking, I may just try with tiny amounts from toothpick dips, and mix on a piece of wax paper, just to see if I can get the kinds of colors I am looking for, then try to mix the same amounts into the resins themselves. At lest then, I'll have an idea of the ratios.e

The Alumilite dyes have new bottles, that have a much better nozzle. No more cutting and hoping.

2nd the spray bottle with soapy water. It's very accurate for finding leaks. A lot of times it's around the seal. Give the seal a little him rub of Vaseline, and tighten the wing it's in a cross pattern. Don't crank one all the way down, then move to the next. You are trying to tighten them all evenly.

 

[jrista]

Well, first attempt may only be partially successful, maybe. I used a combination of mixol and some acrylic paint. I did some research on acrylics, as I had some paints that were exactly the colors I was looking for. Used a small amount (the recommended ratio was no more than 1/10th the volume of the resin itself, I used less than that), and mixed the colors into the resins first before mixing in the hardener. However the alumilite started to bubble, and the first batch foamed, before the 12 minute open time window was up, when the mixture included acrylic. I guess I'll either have to be much, much faster with the acrylics, or just stick to mixol from now on (probably going to do the latter, although they tend to look more translucent than solid compared to the acrylic mix). I got them into the pressure take immediately at that point, but, I suspect the acrylic-based blanks will be a bust. I have another hour to go here before I can check.

I received a set of solid color blanks from Exotic Blanks today. Good colors, they are the "football" colors but they will work for a vintage/retro look as well, although some of them are a bit bright for my tastes (i.e. I'd prefer say burnt sienna vs. red, harvests gold vs. yellow, etc.) They will work for now, though, and I have segmented a few sets of blanks already. In some cases I am combining wood (wenge, mahogany) with the solid colors, and maybe with a bit of antler (to stand in for ivory, as ivory was still traded in the 70s and 80s, and was used in some things.)

I will have to pick up some more alumilite (the package of A/B I had only lasted for these 5 blanks!!) before I can give this another try.

 

[jrista]

Total bust. All the mixol blanks came out translucent. Probably because I mixed into the resin first, then added the hardener, and didn't account for the extra "clear" the hardener was bringing to the mix.

The acrylic ones, all foamed. Even under pressure, they foamed, so there are lots of tiny bubbles that, while you cannot really see them, resulted in the blanks all being a lighter color than the color I mixed into the resin in the first place. A couple of them foamed over significantly, and contaminated all the rest of the blanks.

Well, I guess I won't be trying to dye alumilite with acrylic again.

 

[PatrickR]

I dont use Alumilite but am aware that it is very sensitive to H20, could be why it foamed. I dont think that mixol is opaque and at 1:10 won't ever be. Look into the dry pigments, that combined with mixol or transtint would seem to be the best bet.
I have gotten some of the "team color" blanks and they are good for the brighter colors but nothing muted or retro about them.
I have started one using the olive simplicita, showed the wife and she commented that it was a popular color now, everything comes back around eventually.

 

[PatrickR]

I just remembered these blanks that are in an older for sale ad. He may still have some. I think they are in the color range you are after.

A variety of taps and dies and more colors of pen embryos

I brought more products again, they are shipped from China, can be better combined, no matter what you need. The shipping cost to North America is 30$, and the shipping cost to Europe is 25$. There is no additional shipping cost. The express is a traceable international express, and the arrival...

www.penturners.org

 

[jrista]

I just remembered these blanks that are in an older for sale ad. He may still have some. I think they are in the color range you are after.

A variety of taps and dies and more colors of pen embryos

I brought more products again, they are shipped from China, can be better combined, no matter what you need. The shipping cost to North America is 30$, and the shipping cost to Europe is 25$. There is no additional shipping cost. The express is a traceable international express, and the arrival...

www.penturners.org

Thanks! I forgot about that thread as well...

I dont use Alumilite but am aware that it is very sensitive to H20, could be why it foamed. I dont think that mixol is opaque and at 1:10 won't ever be. Look into the dry pigments, that combined with mixol or transtint would seem to be the best bet.
I have gotten some of the "team color" blanks and they are good for the brighter colors but nothing muted or retro about them.
I have started one using the olive simplicita, showed the wife and she commented that it was a popular color now, everything comes back around eventually.

Have you ever tried using actual acrylic resin? Seems all of the solid-color blanks I've found for sale are acrylic, whereas alumilite is a urethane. Sounds like acrylic resin can be colored with a very wide range of materials, including of course acrylic paints, among other things. I may give acrylic resin a try for solid color blanks and see how that goes. I need to figure out what acrylic resin would be best though. I have some inlace, but that is an acrylester and is a much harder, chippier substance and I don't really want to use that if I can avoid it.

Vintage stuff always seems to be in style for one group of the population or another. I like it myself. I agree the brighter colors aren't entirely 60s or 70s, but they are somewhat 80s. I have some ideas for the white/offwhite, blues, yellows and oranges. Also have some ideas for brown, tan, harvest gold, burnt orange, and burnt sienna, if I can get or make blanks in those colors. I have some ideas for some blues as well, but so far none of the blue blanks are really the right color.

 

[PatrickR]

Not used an acrylic resin. I use epoxy. What is called acrylic by us is acrylic acetate an industrial plastic. i've not seen an acrylic resin for sale.

 

[jrista]

Not used an acrylic resin. I use epoxy. What is called acrylic by us is acrylic acetate an industrial plastic. i've not seen an acrylic resin for sale.

Hmm, I think what I may be thinking of is polyester. I've seen it sold in a can, with a small bottle of activator or hardener, which is similar to how the inlace works.

I ordered a bunch of the Gamblin pigments. They will arrive scattered from the 24th through the 5th of January, so I may not be trying again until after the holidays. Some of those pigments, though...wow... A lot of places sell the Cadmium Red for anywhere from $28-80!!! Veridian green I only saw in one place, for $88! I spent $28 on the Cadmium Red & Yellow and Cobalt Blue. Would like the Veridian green, but, not gonna spend that kind of money on a 4oz bottle of powder.

 

[PatrickR]

I hate polyester resin due to the smell but many people use it.
that is some expensive stuff. The cadmium red in oil colors is priced likewise. it is the most fade resistant red. VERY TOXIC! Use a respirator, gloves etc. when working with the powder.

 

[jrista]

I hate polyester resin due to the smell but many people use it.
that is some expensive stuff. The cadmium red in oil colors is priced likewise. it is the most fade resistant red. VERY TOXIC! Use a respirator, gloves etc. when working with the powder.

Eh, I have been reading about polyester...apparently MEKP can cause near-instantaneous blindness... I have a bad habit of rubbing my eyes, so, I think that one is out.

I'll stick with the epoxy and alumilite resins, and use the powder pigments. I think that sounds like the best option. I ALWAYS wear a respirator, for anything related to woodworking or resins. I had an exceptionally bad experience with CA glue last year, and I'm hyper paranoid about these fumes and whatnot now. (Hence the reason I don't think I'll mess with the polyester, the blindness caused by the oxidative peroxides used in many of those is just too much for me.)

 

[jrista]

Well, for those interested. I purchased a bunch of the Gamblin solid color pigments. I finally received the Ivory Black, although I am still waiting on the Titanium Oxide white. With the black, and the rest, I was able to start experimenting.

I just made some basic guesses, but at the moment, I've come up with the following mix ratios for the colors I've been interested in. Note that, while there are official names for many of these colors, there do NOT appear to be very many official actual meanings to what those names are. Outside of perhaps Pantone, which I haven't gotten into, I've been mixing according to what I see when looking up these colors, in variations I like myself at least. One of my key references:

Teak and Natural will require a white as they are more tints of the other pigments, so I won't be able to try them out until the Titanium Oxide arrives.

Avocado Green (Bright) = Chromium Oxide Green : Burnt Umber : Yellow Ochre -> 2:1:1
Burnt Orange = Mars Orange : Burnt Umber -> 6:1
Harvest Gold = Cadmium Yellow Medium : Burnt Sienna -> 4:1
Navy Blue (Dark) = Cobalt Blue : Ivory Black -> 2:1

The existing colors for Burnt Sienna and Burnt Umber are already perfect for those vintage/retro colors, so I've left them as is. I think Mars Orange will be good for just a plain old orange, but I may try mixing in a tiny bit of Yellow Ochre or Cadmium Yellow Medium to see if I can brighten it just a bit. The avocado green is more of a brighter version of avocado green. It might need just a tiny bit more yellow to truly match the color above, but what I ended up with given the above ratios fits the eras well. You can also find darker, more muted/drab versions of "Avocado" or "Avocado Green" colors online. So far I don't have a use for those versions of the color.

Oh, and for red, the Cadmium Red is of course a perfect match for the brighter red I was looking for. There are a couple other blues I want to try...I found some interesting antique tins at the antique store the other day, one of them was a two-part ink remover solution from, we think, as far back as the 20s or 30s. It had this nice darkish blue, with black as a secondary and lighter gold accents. I will be trying to replicate that blue as well, and I am going to try to make a pen with the black, gold and blue. The combination looks so nice!

The testing I did was to mix the dry pigments in the specified ratios, then add just a tiny dab of water as a clear base to properly mix the pigments together to get a real feel for what they will look like in a clear resin.

 

[jrista]

Photo of the colors I ended up with given the above mentioned mixes:

Now, I use a very wide gamut screen...I used the sRGB mode to try and match the color on screen to the color in the actual palette, but, I don't know how it will look to all of you. Anyway...example of the actual real-world colors. These pigments are GREAT. Love them!

EDIT: Eh...in the browser, they look brighter colored, more saturated, than they are in real life. They aren't as bright as they appear here...they are a bit more muted, earthy, and do have more of a retro look to them in real life.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I've used Testors model paints. As you do have to add a touch of white or black or no matter how much color you add they come out translucent. For my purposes I like it when one color is translucent and the second colors isn't.

 

[jrista]

I've used Testors model paints. As you do have to add a touch of white or black or no matter how much color you add they come out translucent. For my purposes I like it when one color is translucent and the second colors isn't.

Yeah, I was thinking about using my Mixol as a base. It wouldn't make the resin completely opaque, but it would help, I think. I ordered some white Mixol (doesn't come in their 12-color tubs of mixol for some reason, although black does).

 

[jrista]

Ok, for anyone still following this thread, especially you color nuts. I have all of the Gamblin pigments I ordered, including Titanium Dioxide and Ivory Black for tinting and shading. I've managed to blend all of the colors I was interested in except one class of colors: The "Turquoise/Cyan/Aquamarine" colors.

I've spent a lot of time reading and watching how people mix acrylic and oil paints to make turquoise, and some pretty dead on for the kind of color I think would fit this "retro" style. However, with these pigments, when I try to mix the way I've seen paints mixed (and, after reading some Gamblin content, it sounds like their oil paints are basically the same pigments, mixed with refined linseed oil), I get different, often much different results.

I've been trying a couple common approaches:

A. Mix white, blue, yellow where white has the highest quantity, blue a middle quantity and yellow the smallest. Adjust yellow to adjust the green/blue tone of the turquoise.

B. Mix blue, green and yellow and maybe white, blue highest, green middle, yellow smallest, with white a variable to achieve the right brightness.

In both cases, I either end up with more of a steel gray/blue, or a light sea blue, and can't ever quite seem to achieve an actual "turquoise" or "aquamarine". I don't have any refined linseed oil, all I have is boiled, which is probably just about rancid at this point, so I'm not sure that would make for a viable oil base to try and blend some pigment into just to see if the yellowing the oil introduces has an effect on mixing here.

Anyway, just curious if anyone has any thoughts. In a general sense, I've been assuming Red, Yellow, Blue mixing model, although I think technically, the blue should really be a bit lighter than the blue I am using (Cobalt Blue).

I've ordered the missing pigments from the set (I'm probably nuts for completely diving in headlong for every single pigment Gamlin offers, except maybe Zinc Oxide white, and a Mars Black now, I think...I've dropped hundreds of dollars on pigments now!! ), and that includes the Veridian Green. I am wondering if the Veridian Green would help me achieve the color I am looking for, as its kind of an aqua sort of color itself...just more green than blue. I also ordered the intermediates I missed before, like Raw Umber, Raw Sienna, and Prussian Blue (which might be a perfect blue for the darker navy blue like color I've been looking for, maybe with minor adjustments). Hopefully with a broader palette to mix from, I'll be able to achieve some of these more challenging colors.