Mini Review Ultra Seal- turning a blank

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greenmtnguy

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I received a blank of extremely soft Buckeye burl that had been stabilized with Ultra Seal. I had given Charlie-newlondon88 some of this wood because it was too soft to easily save with CA. I rescued it from a burn pile, if that gives you any idea of the condition it was in. I cut it while it was wet and frozen, or probably couldn't have done anything with it. The blank looked as though the stabilizer hadn't penetrated thouroughly, but upon turning it, I was wrong. The shavings dropped nicely, not dusty as I had imagined. Punky looking areas turned as well as solid wood areas. The wood finished nicely, better than normal Buckeye. If home stabilizers can do as well of a job as the factory did with this, Ultra Seal is going to be very popular with pen turners. This stuff works.
1_ultra_seal.jpg
 
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NewLondon88

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Here's a pic of the wood block before stabilizing.

You couldn't really work it at all, it would be like trying
to turn burnt toast. Feels much like acoustic ceiling tile..
and about as strong.

Nice job, Alton.
 

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wdcav1952

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Looks good, guys. Nice collaboration.

I don't understand why you can't turn burnt toast. It seems like I am the only one on the site that can't turn butter. I can drill it and get a tube in the butter blank, but I can't seem to get my lathe going without slinging butter everywhere. So many people refer to "...it turns like butter..." So, what the heck am I doing wrong, and if butter turns so blamed well, why hasn't anyone posted a photo of a butter pen???????
 
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NewLondon88

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Nobody posts butter pens because it is so hard to get a good finish on
them and not that many kits work well with it. You might try margarine
though.
 

RBoutin

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Beautiful pen, could we get a picture e-mailed to us? I'm glad to hear you had a good experience with the Ultraseal product, we're still learning which woods it does and doesn't work well with.

I received a blank of extremely soft Buckeye burl that had been stabilized with Ultra Seal. I had given Charlie-newlondon88 some of this wood because it was too soft to easily save with CA. I rescued it from a burn pile, if that gives you any idea of the condition it was in. I cut it while it was wet and frozen, or probably couldn't have done anything with it. The blank looked as though the stabilizer hadn't penetrated thouroughly, but upon turning it, I was wrong. The shavings dropped nicely, not dusty as I had imagined. Punky looking areas turned as well as solid wood areas. The wood finished nicely, better than normal Buckeye. If home stabilizers can do as well of a job as the factory did with this, Ultra Seal is going to be very popular with pen turners. This stuff works.
1_ultra_seal.jpg
 

NewLondon88

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Bob .. it seems like a lot of people used buckeye burl for testing. No wonder,
it looks good and when it gets punky, it gets PUNKY!
 

sbell111

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Franklin, TN
Looks good, guys. Nice collaboration.

I don't understand why you can't turn burnt toast. It seems like I am the only one on the site that can't turn butter. I can drill it and get a tube in the butter blank, but I can't seem to get my lathe going without slinging butter everywhere. So many people refer to "...it turns like butter..." So, what the heck am I doing wrong, and if butter turns so blamed well, why hasn't anyone posted a photo of a burtter pen???????
Butter is even worse about heat than ebony or snakewood. You have to make sure that the blank is kept very cold to be able to turn it.
 

NewLondon88

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Butter is even worse about heat than ebony or snakewood. You have to make sure that the blank is kept very cold to be able to turn it.

True, but I think "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter" is a bit more forgiving.
And the finish lasts longer.
 

wdcav1952

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Alton, Charlie and Bob(especially Bob),

I hope I did not cheapen your thread with my attempts at levity. I am working on coming up with an inexpensive as possible vacuum setup and will likely try Ultra-Seal.

Thank you Bob for introducing us to this new material and Alton and Charlie for your collaboration on this review of Ultra-Seal.
 

mel dunlap

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Dover, PA.
ultra seal

As for the ultra seal, this stuff is amazing. I use this on a variety of woods, penetrates very well, and back to an earlier thread about bass wood, this stuff makes bass wood turn like stone. Keep up the good work. Beautiful pen, Alton.

Mel
Dover, PA.
 

wolftat

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Everyone, I am trying to see what is going to be good for all involved in the threads. This just happened to be the thread that I chose to work with for now. Please do not get upset if your post is deleted or moved, I'm still working on learning my way around and am hitting some buttons and pushing some buttons. Cav, you didn't do anything wrong. This is supposed to be fun for all and I am trying to work it so it can be enjoyed by all. Thanks for understanding.
 

RBoutin

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A little levity doesn't hurt these days!

Alton, Charlie and Bob(especially Bob),

I hope I did not cheapen your thread with my attempts at levity. I am working on coming up with an inexpensive as possible vacuum setup and will likely try Ultra-Seal.

Thank you Bob for introducing us to this new material and Alton and Charlie for your collaboration on this review of Ultra-Seal.
 

Fred

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Has a list been developed yet that shows the results of which woods are compatible vs those that have a problem when using Ultraseal?

Also, if one were to use dark wood, does the vacuum process pull any of the dark resins out thus preventing the use of this batch of Ultraseal with a lighter wood?

Does adding "fresh" Ultraseal to a volume of "used" Ultraseal refresh everything, or should the older and used batch be discarded?

Once exposed to wood and pressure/vacuum, does the Ultraseal lose any strength if a second or third batch of wood is added in separate processes? (Assuming that enough Ultraseal remains to adequately cover the wood for the additional processes.)

After pulling a vacuum or applying pressure, and waiting for the wood to "sink", does any Ultraseal actually drain from the wood prior to a heat session. This is not addressing any surface Ultraseal, but is instead addressing any loss from the interior of the wood IF the heat application is withheld for a bit of time due to various reasons.
 

Druid

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Beautiful pen, could we get a picture e-mailed to us? I'm glad to hear you had a good experience with the Ultraseal product, we're still learning which woods it does and doesn't work well with.

Bob,
You will have my data in another week, I have tested over a hundred samples of various woods (pulling 28.5 In/Hg for each cycle) over the last three weeks and have experimented with different methods to include additional vacuum, pressure, and curing cycles.

Here is a quick summation of my observations so far. Ultraseal works very well with spalted wood and other lighter shade woods such as holly, maple, box elder, buckeye, etc. However, there are some woods that did not fair as well... some to be expected due to their density. The loss of pigment in some woods is something that needs to be worked through, it produces a "semi-bland" product at the end of the day. Pigments are critical since they highlight the natural features & beauty of wood. One thing important to mention, there are some consistant factors that have significant impact in the curing process (humidity, material volume, density, temperature). In other words, I have had success with making slight variations to the instructions based on my environment, wood species and its life cycle.
 

jfoh

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Has anyone thought to add a dye to the Ultraseal? This would be great if you could dye wood and stabilize with this product at home. It also would give you a visual trace of how much product penetrated into the wood. If no one else tries this I will as soon as mine get here. Just a thought.
 

GouletPens

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Has anyone thought to add a dye to the Ultraseal? This would be great if you could dye wood and stabilize with this product at home. It also would give you a visual trace of how much product penetrated into the wood. If no one else tries this I will as soon as mine get here. Just a thought.
I have some ultraseal and I've stabilized a very woods and prepped them up to turn. I am thinking about dyeing some to try, I've heard it works well though.
 

Druid

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Has anyone thought to add a dye to the Ultraseal? This would be great if you could dye wood and stabilize with this product at home. It also would give you a visual trace of how much product penetrated into the wood. If no one else tries this I will as soon as mine get here. Just a thought.

Yes with mixed results
 

wolftat

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Has anyone thought to add a dye to the Ultraseal? This would be great if you could dye wood and stabilize with this product at home. It also would give you a visual trace of how much product penetrated into the wood. If no one else tries this I will as soon as mine get here. Just a thought.

I believe that Gary Max has done this. www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46279
 

Gary Max

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What I found was-----use VERY little dye----I went overboard----Blanks are still not dry----they have been heated 4 times---left out in the sun for a full day---still wet.
 

RBoutin

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Thanks everybody for the feedback so far. The primary issues identified with the current formulation seem to be an issue curing properly with certain wood species, and also curing issues with dyes.

We think we can improve the ability of the stabilizer to cure with more wood species with a slight formulation change. I would like to ask the testers who had this problem (undyed wood did not cure properly) to please PM me and let me know the specifics. Also let me know if you have more of the same wood to try again. I'll send out another pint for you to try again with the same wood to see if you get an improved result. Please test again using the same species in order to know for sure if there is an improvement.

Regarding problems curing when dyes are added, the stabilizer can be formulated to cure properly when dyed. However, it is not something that can be done outside of the laboratory. The new formulation we are going to try will likely improve the curing of already-dyed parts, however mixing dyes directly with the stabilizer is going to produce very erratic results. We're going to look at coming out with a line of dyed stabilizers, but only as we can adjust the stabilizer formula to work with each color dye. I'll keep everyone informed if/when we are successful in developing this line of products.

One thing that must be absolutely clear about curing Ultraseal: It ONLY cures properly under extended high heat, specifically it requires a minimum of 194 F for ten minutes AT THE CORE. Anything less than this will not result in it curing properly if at all. It will continue to harden over a couple days, however that assumes a proper hard cure in the first place. If it comes out sticky and gooey, no amount of time sitting around will make it harden properly.

On the questions below:

1 - A list has not been developed yet showing how compatible Ultraseal is with various woods, but we are starting to pull it together through the results of this first trial.

2 - Ultraseal may leach some color out of certain woods but to be honest we don't have a broad enough experience yet to know which. We have seen a slight yellowing of the stabilizer after stabilizing several batches of clear wood so some color does indeed get into the stabilizer.

3 - Fresh Ultraseal can be added to used Ultraseal with no adverse effects. However, if the used Ultraseal is clearly contaminated or is beginning to polymerize, don't mix it as you will ruin the fresh material. If you have discolored Ultraseal due to dyes or oils from wood, it is best to first run a gel test as described in the instruction sheet to verify it cures properly. If it does, go ahead and mix it if you like.

4 - Ultraseal can be reused again and again. It does not lose anything, however keep in mind that the wood may add something undesirable to the stabilizer. Again, a gel test can tell you if it's still o.k.

5 - Good question. We haven't done any testing to see if the blanks lose weight over time. The stabilizer does not evaporate, but I think it would be safe to say that if the banks were sitting on something, capillary action would draw some of the stabilizer out of the wood, especially highly spalted woods that absorb a great deal of stabilizer.

I'll do my best to keep answering questions. Sometimes I won't have a concrete answer, but we're learning just as you are. With a little patience, I'm confident we'll have the product that meets the needs of most pen turners (and reel seat and knife handle makers).

Thanks again everybody,

Bob

Has a list been developed yet that shows the results of which woods are compatible vs those that have a problem when using Ultraseal?

Also, if one were to use dark wood, does the vacuum process pull any of the dark resins out thus preventing the use of this batch of Ultraseal with a lighter wood?

Does adding "fresh" Ultraseal to a volume of "used" Ultraseal refresh everything, or should the older and used batch be discarded?

Once exposed to wood and pressure/vacuum, does the Ultraseal lose any strength if a second or third batch of wood is added in separate processes? (Assuming that enough Ultraseal remains to adequately cover the wood for the additional processes.)

After pulling a vacuum or applying pressure, and waiting for the wood to "sink", does any Ultraseal actually drain from the wood prior to a heat session. This is not addressing any surface Ultraseal, but is instead addressing any loss from the interior of the wood IF the heat application is withheld for a bit of time due to various reasons.
 

Fred

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Bob ... Thanks for the updated answers to my few questions.

Also, I want to add a Thank You to those of you that are taking the time and posting your test results here and over at Ultraseal for the rest of us to learn from.

From what I have studied these past several years it seems to me that Ultraseal is almost identical to the products used by the professional stabilization services that many here are familiar with by name. :cool:

I believe by far that our own IAP member "Mesquiteman" is right on with his stabilized woods. I say this as I look at one of his blanks and I will state that it compares - and maybe even excels - in comparison to any of the pros. :biggrin:
 
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