"Turning ease or difficulty"

[watch_art]

Ed, maybe there are too many variables for a consistent 1 tier rating system.

You could pick 2 or 3 variables and rate them. Example:

Hardness (1-5)
Brittleness (1-5)

I like that.

Drilling ease.
Finishing.

 

[Texatdurango]

I think having an option where the person giving feedback can tell how long they've been turning. I would put 6 months and then my comments and ratings. Maybe a link to some of my work? Somebody else could come in and see my time at the lathe, see my work, and then decide if they think my opinion is valid or a joke. If somebody with 10 years experience says this and this, then maybe you could deduce that the guy with only 6 months is just inexperienced and is still learning. Of course that would depend on people being totally honest with that part, but I think it would be a helpful meter for people reading the reviews and comments.

Do you mean that there would be members who would admit that after turning for only three weeks that having a problem with a blank is THEIR fault and not the blank's? How many times have we read threads similar to "these blanks suck, I've had three blow up on me so far. Must be a bad batch!" Where do you think these people would rate an easy to turn blank just because they couldn't handle them?

I agree that some sort of "credibility" rating should be used but what? Time behind the lathe alone won't work because I've met turners who hate plastic and only turn wood so their limited exposure to a certain material might be a one time experience... in ten years. Then there is bias, some might promote certain types of material because they sell them and the forum has many, many members making and selling blanks.

Personally, I don't see where there is a problem that needs solving here. There will always be beginning turners trying to turn a blank that's going to give them problems, that's just part of the learning experience. Why should they stay away from or be afraid to try a material because of how it's rated? That would only cause them to miss out on making some beautiful pens.

just another opinion

 

[watch_art]

There will always be beginning turners trying to turn a blank that's going to give them problems, that's just part of the learning experience. Why should they stay away from or be afraid to try a material because of how it's rated? That would only cause them to miss out on making some beautiful pens.

just another opinion

Very good point.

 

[TellicoTurning]

How would YOU develop a rating system?

I have thought about this for years and have not answered the question to my own satisfaction. So, let's see if we can derive a "group answer".

I would like to rate all the resins and wood. They could be two different systems (one for wood, one for resin) or one overall system. The system would have to apply to novice turners up through veterans.

It would be especially nice if we could give newer turners advice on what NOT to buy.

IDEAS???????????

Thanks.

Not sure if you could ever develop a "system" of rating... what's hard to one turner may be simple to another... and as the skill levels increase, the "ease" of turning a particular blanks will also rise... I think it's all to subjective to get an accurate system.

 

[randyrls]

there is a article in the library call the Acrylic revolution that could answer some of the questions of difficultly. See:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f139/iap-library-general-reference-77366/

Bill; Somehow I never noticed that one. Thanks for writing that!

 

[randyrls]

Ed; I think rating the materials we use is a good idea.

Maybe a Wiki article that includes input from many individuals would be appropriate.

There is a page on the Wiki that details the "Raw Materials" that pens are made of.
http://www.penturners.org/wiki/Raw_Materials

We could add information to that page for all the materials we use. The Wiki is easy to use and the editor is very similar to the one used here in the forum. The "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" editor makes it easy to update content. A complete history/backup of all pages in the Wiki makes it easy to add, edit, merge or restore pages.

This message has links on how to use the Wiki. http://www.penturners.org/forum/f118/using-iap-wiki-50784/

 

[randyrls]

Ed,
Putting "Care must be taken when working Ceblopast to make sure you dont overheat it or it will melt" is helpful. "I think this is the worst material for pen making because i had trouble drilling it, turning it, glueing it, and finishing it" isnt going to help anything.

Yes Indeed! The first conveys useful information, the second has no information content.

 

[GaryMGg]

The problem is rater subjectivity. You will need a lot of responses to overcome this.

Maybe a good way to get as close to an unbiased rating system as you could, would be to post a survey on your website or here for each substance. Have each question pertain to a different category you are interested in as a factor. You could do it through survey monkey or google to get quick results for each question.

This morning we found out we can ask for feedback on each product. We "turned that on". So, comments about alternative ebony, can now be posted immediately below the product. Maybe, as we get more comments we will be able to "standardize" them. But, we hope this is a start.

BTW, your comments will not be published immediately. We have to read and publish. This will NOT be used to eliminate negative comments, but it WILL be used to eliminate any offensive language.

We welcome input from those who have used the products.

Ed,

As subjective as this is likely to be, I think you could save yourself a lot of work in the long run by creating a scaled (1-10) survey for the attributes you're interested in collecting.
A survey with no free-form text feedback would eliminate the need for human review.
You could use a captcha if you're concerned about 'bots autoflooding your survey but I'm not sure there's any reason for that.

Properly formed, a survey could lead to data being provided which could produce the results you've been seeking all these years.

More $.02 and worth every penny paid for it. :wink:

 

[ed4copies]

Hey Gary!!!

So far we have given no rules or guidance on the "feedback". And, so far there has been NONE.

I read internet marketing magazines, they point out that it is difficult to get the first participation. Then, a flow develops.

We shall see!!

I will look forward to "tuning" the system!!

 

[Texatdurango]

Hey Gary!!!

So far we have given no rules or guidance on the "feedback". And, so far there has been NONE.

I read internet marketing magazines, they point out that it is difficult to get the first participation. Then, a flow develops.

We shall see!!

I will look forward to "tuning" the system!!

Am I understanding correctly, all this feedback being discussed is taking place on your website? In order to learn from any of these ratings, a new turner needs to visit your website? I thought something was going to be placed in the library.

Looks like those internet marketing magazines are full of slick ideas to grow your business!

 

[ed4copies]

Yes, those marketing magazines are meant to grow a business.

Additionally, if I make any comments on IAP about the products I also sell, there are those who will scream I am advertising. (You may recognize this)

So, what I do in my own playground does NOT require the permission of others.
This project will be conducted mostly where I have more control. (Those who have complained about me have succeeded in changing my behavior in some ways---Congratulations to them!!)

 

[azamiryou]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a simple "skill level" rating. This is used very successfully in other hobbies - look at model kits, they all have a skill rating. Is it subjective? Sure it is! Is it useful? Yeah, that too. No need for consensus. And so need to standardize across the industry - it's not like Revell, Monogram, and Testors all coordinate on what their skill levels mean.

Just focus on the buyer who is considering a blank. That person is most likely not a member of the IAP, and is not interested in visiting some wiki he or she has never heard of. Simply - "That's a cool-looking blank! I wonder how hard it is to turn."

Everyone will recognize that this is subjective, and make their own decisions based on their confidence and how much they desire the blank. "Hmmm, I've never done an intermediate before, but I've been turning for a few months now, I bet if I'm careful I can manage it..."

And it needn't be 100% accurate right from the start. If you find some beginners complaining about difficulties with a particular blank, then change its category.

The above is all predicated on the most important goal being helping people decide whether a blank is within their abilities. As stated in the original post, "It would be especially nice if we could give newer turners advice on what NOT to buy." This would do nothing to help a turner decide on the correct approach for a particular blank.

 

[ed4copies]

Thanks to all, so far. I believe this will have a prototype stage. Then, we will see where it leads. As has been said, SOME direction is better than NO direction, but I can see more arguments than substance as a distinct possibility.