Titanium and Titanium Nitride - What's the differe

[JimB]

I have yet to order any kits from PSI but I noticed they refer to Titanium Nitride rather than just Titanium. There seems to be a significant price difference in PSI TN kits (less expensive) that are similar to other supplier's kits that are similar but are Titanium (more expensive).

So, my question: What is the difference between Titanium from other suppliers and Titanium Nitride (TN) from PSI?

Special note here... I'm not trying to open up another thread on plating (24K, 10K, not using any K-gold etc) as I have read many of those threads already. I'm just confused on these two and I can't seem to find a thread on them although I seem to remember reading about them here back some time ago.

Thanks

 

[Randy_]

Every manufacturer has platings that are a little different; but essentially the difference you are confused about is a matter of semantics. You may also see it referred to as Titanium Gold. It is all the same stuff more or less.....a gold colored plating of a titanium compound. Note also there is a black titanium plating.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I disagree, Randy:
Titanium Nitride is gold coloured, Titanium is silver...

 

[JimB]

I understand both Titanium and Titanium Nitride both come in "Gold" and "Black". So if I understand they are the same plating and quality by different names?

So, if I see them "same" kit from 2 different sources, like the Gatsby and the Sierra, but one is TN (gold or black)and less expensive and the other is Titanium (gold or black) then I will get the same quality and can save a few $$$ by getting the TN Gatsby, correct? Or am I missing something here...

Thanks.

 

[Russianwolf]

Maybe. Type of plating is one factor, amount of plating is another.

I don't know that there are any differences between PSI's and Berea's Ti Gold Plating in either type, or amount though.

I will point out that the weakest part of the Gatsby/Sierra pen is the Black Enamel on the grip and finial. So when possible, I'd go with the Ti Gold/Ti Black, Plat/Ti Black from Berea or the Chrome/Ti Black from Wood Pen Pro.

And By the way, Arizona Silhoette says theirs is Titanium Oxide for whatever that's worth.

 

[Randy_]

It is a little tricky to make generalizations. One reason for a price difference in kits of the same plating might be the thickness of the coating.....thicker plating, more cost. Other point is that plating is not the only factor that determines the cost of a pen. Higher quality fittings, brass rather than plastic parts, etc are all factors.

In your example, comparing the Gatsby and the Sierra are not exactly apples and apples. According to the PSI catalog, their plating is a titanium nitride plating. OTOH, Berea calls their plating titanium gold. They plate with titanium nitride and then "sputter" on K gold. Then the parts are plated again with gold so you actually have gold over titanium nitride. If you nick or wear off a bit of the gold, the underlying titanium nitride will be exposed and since it is also a gold color you don't notice the missing gold plating.

This is a question you can't really answer on paper. Buy a kit and see if it suites your purposes or buy one of each and then compare the two first-hand.

Good luck!!

 

[Randy_]

Here is a little more information on titanium nitride for those who are interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

 

[JimB]

Hmmmm... the things I learn from everyone on here . It sounds like Titanium might be better than Titanium Nitride amd therefore the price difference. And both are better than 24K or 10K gold. I know I didn't raise the 24/10K question, I am just drawing a conclusion based on everything... uh, I mean the little I know about plating.

Thanks for educating me.

 

[arjudy]

Titanium nitride is gold in color.
Titanium oxide is black titanium.

 

[Randy_]

PSI calls their black plating a titanium nitride. According to the Wiki link I posted, titanium nitride can be "nearly black" if the correct impurities are introduced to the plating process. Berea says their black titanium plating is titanium oxide. It is not uncommon for the distributors to use "fuzzy" language in describing their platings so it is not always possible to know exactly what you are getting. I'm not sure that they even know??

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by arjudy

Titanium nitride is gold in color.
Titanium oxide is black titanium.

What color is Titanium Carbon Nitriding? Or Titanium Aluminum Nitriding? IIRC Titanium Oxide is a photocatalyst?

 

[rixstix]

Titanium can be readily anodized to a variety of colors.

The titanium derivative platings on the pen kits that I've testing cannot be anodized at all because I spent quite a bit of time this weekend playing with a titanium anodizer. So, it's safe to say that none of the platings are pure titanium.

 

[wdcav1952]

Wait a minute!! Are y'all trying to tell me that the kits I have been buying aren't solid gold???? [:0]

 

[GoodTurns]

no, no, no...Cav, YOURS are real gold...it's the rest of us getting the cheap stuff

 

[Rudy Vey]

Originally posted by JimB

I have yet to order any kits from PSI but I noticed they refer to Titanium Nitride rather than just Titanium. There seems to be a significant price difference in PSI TN kits (less expensive) that are similar to other supplier's kits that are similar but are Titanium (more expensive).

So, my question: What is the difference between Titanium from other suppliers and Titanium Nitride (TN) from PSI?

Special note here... I'm not trying to open up another thread on plating (24K, 10K, not using any K-gold etc) as I have read many of those threads already. I'm just confused on these two and I can't seem to find a thread on them although I seem to remember reading about them here back some time ago.

Thanks

Titanium is an element, a metal, Titanium Nitride (TiN) is a chemical compound consisting of Titanium and Nitrogen.
There are (at least to my knowledge) no pen kits made from Titanium, i.e. the metal. When the pen kit seller refer to "Titanium" they mainly mean the either gold colored Titanium Nitride (extremely hard, similar to a ceramic) or the black colored Titanium Oxide. Both coatings are extremely withstanding the daily abuse of pen. Pretty much all gold coatings will wear off sooner or later - the Titanium Gold (i.e. the TiN) is nearly indestructible, therefore, it is used to coat tooling in forging as well as cutting operations to extent tool life many fold.

Btw, I have turned pens from Titanium metal and used either the gold colored TiN or the black colored Titanium Oxide penkits to make the pens. I think in my photos folder there is a picture of a Titanium pen. Believe me, its a tough metal to work with!!

Hope this clarifies the difference between the two!

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by Randy_

It is not uncommon for the distributors to use "fuzzy" language in describing their platings so it is not always possible to know exactly what you are getting. I'm not sure that they even know??

My guess is that Randy hit the nail on the head. PSI sells their rhodium and gives little cards of authenticity that say "Platinum Group"--- which I will NOT give to my customers because it sounds like I'm too cheap to use "real" platinum--- it's kinda like selling someone a Camaro and telling them it's a "Corvette-groupe" because it's a 2-door V8 coupe.

You can get real platinum from other suppliers, supposedly, but it's a moot point since rhodium looks just as good and seems to be just as durable. Sorry, I know the thread was about ti-gold.

Personally I've found black ti (titanium oxide?) to be the most indestructible plating. Most mfr's claim the gold to be the most durable, and it's tough, but I've had the gold stuff pit up on me badly, like rhodium, but I've never once had a whiff of trouble from black ti.

 

[mitchm]

This has nothing to do with platings but thought it may be of interest (current PGM prices):
Platinum = $2071/oz
Rhodium = $9690/oz

IMHO the Ti's and PGM platings are much the same in terms of quality.

 

[Paul Downes]

I was going to point out the price difference between platinum and rhodium- but michm beat me to it. I always tell my custommers about this and they feel (I think) that they are getting something more valuable in the rohdium plating!

The metalurgy processes for plating these diffeent coatings are considered trade secrets or patented processes by some of the manufacturers. Titanium nitriding is often caried out in a furnace with a nitrogen atmosphere. The finish has a rockwell C scale reading of around 72-75(If my feeble memory is correct) maybe higher. That is harder than just about any other metal. I doubt the flimsy metal parts to our pen kits are heated to that high a temperature, so they must be using a powder metalurgy process that is different from what I am familiar with. I will ask my brother-in-law who happens to be a metalurgist who specializes in heat treat and this kind of stuff.

I thought that Berea plated titanium/gold/titanium for durability and the privalige of claiming that their platings were in fact of gold. I guess I will go back and read about their process. It is all about marketing after all. I don't know about Penn States plating process, but I guess it would be prudent to not claim it is a gold finish unless it does contain gold. I still tell customers that it is a far more durable finish and will last several lifetimes compared to a true gold finish. I am not yet in the marketplace to make solid gold pens- something to do with $$$ but I dream about it.

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by mitchm

This has nothing to do with platings but thought it may be of interest (current PGM prices):
Platinum = $2071/oz
Rhodium = $9690/oz

Man, now THAT is a surprise to me! I would have figured rhodium---------the metal that "looks" like platinum; is always compared to platinum; and the metal that nobody but penturners and a few other specialists have ever even heard of------- would have been a good bit cheaper than platinum.


I wonder why Dayacom and PSI use rhodium over platinum? Is it that much more durable than platinum? Is it easier to plate? Go figure (not that it matters that much, they all look great).

 

[mitchm]

I have no idea what the manufacturing process of the platings are. IMHO the platings contain a very minute amount of the actual precious metal and the description refers mainly to the color of the plating and its durability.

 

[JimB]

Wow, that was a lot more than I expected and some of it is over my head but if i read all this correctly it sounds like both Titanium and Titanium Nitride are extremely good platings and both will last a very long time. So then the only other thing I need to consider is the quality of the kit not related to the plating.

Thanks for the feedback and I'll keep watching this thread to see what else anyone says.

Thanks everyone!