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ctwxlvr

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I was talking to a fellow pen maker yesterday, all of his pens are b2b and a little over turned to the point of being just undersized for the hardware(my ca finish would correct this that is how little it is) but it is way to uniform on all of his pens(all 7mm pens), he uses a sealac(sp) finish one coat and this is where my problem comes in he claims he can make a 3 pens in 5 min from start to finish. He would not say how he did it.

it takes me about 20 min from after selecting the kit and wood from start to finish with a good wood or up to 5 hours on the wood that should have been kindling ;)
 
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There is a way he can turn and finish 3 pens in 5 minutes B2B, all 7mm with a single coat shellac or varnish or even friction polish finish, but that could not include selecting wood, cutting drilling inserting brass tube and assembly of pens, just turning and finishing. I fyou have a duplicator aon a larger lateh with a center steady rest and a CNC type feed you could arrange to put 6 blanks on one setup and turn straight, all of them at the same time with a feed table, and then slap on a finish, but I don't see how you could do it any other way, unless he is buying predrilled, pre-cut and brass tube inserted blanks ready for turning. IMHO.

Rob
 
He's lying. The laws of physics simply won't permit it. He can't be counting blank preparation, including drilling, insertion of tubes, or end milling.

It's conceivable that once that's all done and it's loaded on the mandrel, he could turn it in 2 minutes with a roughing gouge, sand to 150 grit or so, and maybe slap some friction polish on it but it'd be crap, and I still can't see that happening in less than 5 minutes per pen. Then throw assembly on top of that?

And if he's hogging off that much wood, does he count lost time for sharpening and re-doing the inevitable split-offs?

Nope, not buying it. And I sure as heck wouldn't buy one of his pens.

Best I can do is 3 an hour, and that's something easy like cigars, no bit changes, drilling and gluing tubes in batches. I wouldn't want to work any faster than that, and I rarely even try for that. It wouldn't be fun. Might as well go back to my teenage job flipping burgers.

My objective is to make a good pen, not a fast one. Nobody sees my speed. They see the pen. I want them to enjoy and be proud of it.
 
well that answers my question, as to sanding he might but very much or good, chip outs on grain change, and some tooling marks left, but don't appear as lathe tools, but drill marks on the outside of the wood(plug cutter type of marks)

thanks was thinking I was taking way to long =-)
 
If we had to justify the reason for all of our discussions in rational terms, this would be a pretty dull place. If somebody wants to say something, I'm happy to hear it, regardless of whether it makes any difference.
 
Let's see....

10 minutes to choose a blank and kit that go together...
10 minutes to chuck up the right drill bit & find the right bushings.
.... that's enough, it's just depressing me how slow I am [:I]
 
That's why it's just a hobby for me. I may sell a few this holiday season to help pay for next years materials. However, I'll probably give away far more than I sell. I just like to do this to relax and sometimes see how creative I can be. It would be nice to sell a few though...[:D]
 
Originally posted by ctwxlvr
<br />well that answers my question, as to sanding he might but very much or good, chip outs on grain change, and some tooling marks left, but don't appear as lathe tools, but drill marks on the outside of the wood(plug cutter type of marks)

thanks was thinking I was taking way to long =-)
Click to expand...
sounds like he has a mill of some sort. or has rigged a router to do the work. That could give you circular tool marks on the outside of the pen.
 
My first comment is "Who Cares?" and my second is you are insulting yourself by calling him a fellow pen turner! I don't care if it takes me all day to do one pen, when I am done it is done right not half a**. There are some people that think that quantity is what matters. I learned long ago that it is quality over quantity. If he is selling his pens he is selling them to suckers that have no appreciation for the artistic value and craftsmanship. As CrazyBear says he is turning out wood Bics. Some people are beyond help, save yourself and keep your distance, as you don't want any of that to rub off.
 
My comment would be “if the pens look like canine feces then what difference how fast they are turnedâ€.[V][V]
on a GOOD day I can turn and finish 3 or 4 Euros with a Cigar or 2 tossed in if I don't hurt too bad.
Ken Ferrell
 
I don't know about y'all but even though I treat my penturning as a buisness I still enjoy turning. I've spent a lot of time convincing my customers that what I do is "art". Art as such can't or shouldn't be rushed. Sure we can all probably turn a pen relatively quickly. I "know" how fast I can turn almost any style of pen I make. Does it matter? NO....or at least not to me. Am I going to tell y'all? No, because it doesn't matter. I couldn't care less how fast Joe Blow can crank out pens. I don't care if he can turn a Segmented Snakeskin Sierra in Seven Seconds.(that's as close to an alliteration as I can come using penturning as the subject)I'm creating something that's one of a kind. I'm not working with the pit crew at the local Nascar race. We should all enjoy what we do. I remember talking to another penturner before I ever started doing shows. I asked him if he ever turned "plastics". His reply? " I don't have time to turn plastic", he said with almost a sneer."I get into a production run and I only turn wood." I might add his pens all look alike and are friction polished. He's done the same Christmas Show for years and hasn't changed a thing since he started. I did the same show the next year and brought in all kinds of Acrylic, celluloid, and resin pens as well as quite a few wooden pens with shiny CA finishes. You can imagine the rest. I sold pens, a bunch of pens. People told me they had never seen pens out of the materials I used or with the finishes I had. I don't know if I hurt his sales....I do know he didn't hurt mine. But I said all that to say this. I enjoyed making all those pens....I wonder if he can say the same thing. Now nuff said.....GO TO THE SHOP AND TURN A PEN DANG IT! And enjoy it if it kills you.....lol. Oh and unplug the egg timer before you start
 
lol what egg timer ... I have LOML do the timing, as I said it takes me 20 min to 5 hours and I do enjoy turning pens, and to tell you the truth, I really don't care how long it takes me to turn a pe I just start and finish when I finish, (don't let my accountant hear that though) it is just one of those things where ya have to say dang let me guess you have some bottom land along the 9th district to sell me. I just wanted to see if I was being to slow in creating my pens.
 
for me. I've spent the last 8 days working on 10 pens. and they are still not fininshed. I did slow down to drill and glue 17 slimlines in there so that may account for why i have been so rushed.
seriously my son and i made 100 slimlines for the troops about three years ago. the whole thing took about a week 3 to 4 hours per day. that was about as production line as i have ever gotten and i think it works out to about 6 minutes per pen. they where not bushing to bushing either. but it is suprising how fast you can drill blanks when you have 200 holes to drill. even turning got to feel automatic after a while.
 
Originally posted by ligget
<br />I spend more time trying to get up the steps into my workshop! lol[:D]
Click to expand...

I am with Mark on this on. lol But I get to go down the stairs.

Other that that, the post is good for conversation. I get rushed sometimes and to tell you the truth, I don't enjoy it. If someone enjoys making pens that quickly, good for them. Maybe he sells them for 8 bucks each and he needs the money.
 
Someone could use a specially milled cutter and mill the pens on a small metal lathe.

Buying lumber for flatwork one time, I saw a machine with a cradle for the square billets. Pushing the handle forward dropped one billet into a pair of live centers that locked the billet in place. Pushing forward farther forced the billet into a fixed set of cutters that turned a beautiful spindle for a staircase hand-rail with beads and coves all at once. It had a fixed depth stop and when the handle was brought back to a certain point, the live centers released the finished spindle and it dropped out like a gumball machine presenting it's wares.
That's an engineering masterpiece for production work.
No skill required to turn out the work, but it was flawless everytime.
 
You're right ... the drilling can go pretty fast when that's all you're doing. And speeding up the cutting and drilling doesn't compromise the quality of the pens.

When I have a sizable order (I'm currently working on an order of 14, which is big for me), I gain my time efficiencies by cutting and drilling them in bunches. I'll cut the blanks on the band saw, then drill all my 7 mm, then all my 10 mm etc. Then I'll glue the tubes and mill and put each set in a baggie with the kit. So the turning is just all turning, once I get there. Then it goes pretty quickly, but I don't rush it.

Screw caps,which typically require two bits, I pretty much do one by one, though.

Originally posted by Daniel
<br />...it is suprising how fast you can drill blanks when you have 200 holes to drill. even turning got to feel automatic after a while.
Click to expand...
 
I have yet to finish a wooden pen the same day that I started it. Granted, a lot of that is because my turning skills require a lot of cleanup with the 150 grit gouge. A lot of it is I can't do a CA finish that's acceptable, so I use lacquer. I have gotten faster as I turn more pens, however what is acceptable on a finished pen has changed also. It's finished when it's acceptable to me. If that takes a week, so be it. But I don't work on them for 8 hours a day either. It might be an hour here and there when I have the time. Bottom line is, I do what I'm comfortable with. I know I could never be comfortable with a 10 or even a 30 minute pen.....at least not until my skills show a lot of improvement. I do this for fun, I have enough deadlines at work.
 
My record for making is pen is 6 months (it took me that long to finally get a finish that I keep).

My normal time for making a pen is 2 days to 2 weeks (depends on wood or resin blank.)
 
Originally posted by Marc Phillips
<br />Let's see....

10 minutes to choose a blank and kit that go together...
10 minutes to chuck up the right drill bit & find the right bushings.
.... that's enough, it's just depressing me how slow I am [:I]
Click to expand...

If it makes you feel better, I spend a half hour finding the bushings and I have HUNDREDS of them!!!

Yes, I SHOULD improve the organization, but I don't want to do it NOW, it makes such a GOOD New Year's resolution!!![:D][:D][:D]
 
After selecting the blank, marking it off, cutting apart, drilling, and mounting, I can actually turn on in five minutes or so. Then comes the sanding, several coats of sealer, several coats of finish and then a wet sanding before assembly.

Making one pen will take me all day as I use Enduro normally. However, because of setup and dry times, 6+ pens can also take me one day.

The more "production" you make it, the better your time is used. I'm not talking about machinery, but cutting 6 blanks to length takes little extra time vs only one blank. While one coat of finishing is drying, sand and aply a coat of finish to the other blanks.
 
BE CAREFUL GARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My frustration level is rising - you COULD get a large box surprise!![;)][;)][;)]
 
Gary,
I bet the package that you send them back in would be a small envelope with a small piece of paper saying Thank You.[}:)] At least you should do that much. Does really need them?[:D][}:)][:D]

Mike
 
I took up this hobby/craft/art for enjoyment. I love to work with my hands and don't like to rush a job to completion. I do enjoy knowing how long it took me to do a pen, but enjoy the process.To each his own.I don't make Bicks either[:D]I guess the key is <u>Pride</u> in your work.[:)]
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />BE CAREFUL GARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My frustration level is rising - you COULD get a large box surprise!![;)][;)][;)]
Click to expand...

I'm working on my 10-step program -- A guy on WN wrote long ago, for every session working in the shop, put away 10 things. I've got a nice size shop (16' X 32') but I have stuff laid out everywhere and I'm always looking for more room.
Recently, I started to put away more things than I've taken out each time and I'm hoping that by January it'll be pretty organized.
I'll be happy with myself if I continue to do this. [:D]
The real question, as Mike inferred, is do you want ME deciding what you do and don't need?!?!?? [}:)] [;)]
 
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