Some Things to Consider When Deciding To Turn Pens

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Hi Chris

I didn't bother reading all the hoopla after the first page.

I will say that I enjoyed your article and even learned a thing or two (okay maybe three).

Thank you for your insight on pen turning.

Enjoy
 
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IPD_Mrs

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I have not had much time on the forum lately but had marked this thread to come back to and read the article.

I started reading the various comments and my jaw dropped.

Chris I hope that you are of thick skin and that some of the venemous posts have rolled off your shoulders.

Without even reading the article yet people are compairing apples and oranges. I hope that you donot perceive the forum as a whole in this mannor and find time to participate here. I am sure many of us would be happy to learn from someone who has been there and done that.

Mike
 
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I don't get the furor. The list of questions was a great list and he's right. Anybody contemplating starting to make pens (or any other endeavor) would do well to answer those questions. Chris then proceeded to describe how he personally answered those questions.

He also offered some advice based on his experience for those who might want to pursue the same path as he. Perhaps if he had prefaced the body of the article with “This is how I answered those questions†and followed every reference to pen making with “the way I do them†them maybe so many feathers wouldn’t have gotten so ruffled. But, come on folks! This is an article in a context. Look around the website. It is abundantly clear the direction he is taking and the context in which the article was written.

If he had offered to put the article in the library on this website and touted it as sage advice for all people in all circumstances some of the complaints might have some validity. But he didn’t. He made that clear in his first post. He pointed people to an article on his website. Let’s keep context folks! This wasn’t written in a vacuum.

If his article doesn’t apply to you or you’re not interested, pass it by. But the bile that has been spewed out in this thread is inexcusable. If I had gotten flamed like that on my first post, I’d have ended my membership right then and there. Show a little tolerance and common courtesy. Give people the benefit of the doubt. If you have taken offense at what someone has said, ask them what they mean. Chances are you misunderstood.

I have learned as much on this website about how to behave civilly when I disagree with someone as I have about turning pens. I have been chided in the past for the way I’ve expressed myself and I hope the people I am now chiding will take it in the spirit it is offered.

If you are just doing a drive-by flame job, it doesn’t matter. If you want to be part of a community, you have to treat people with respect and try not to alienate them. Hopefully they will return the favor.

Sorry to rant on so long, but I had to get it off my chest.

I hope you will stay with us, Chris. There are a lot of good people here, even the ones that got a little over zealous in their critiques of your article.
 

CSue

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Jan 16, 2007
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Laveen, AZ, USA.
Hi Chris! What a joy to find that you've joined this group. FYI I was your "neighbor" at the LA Pen Showin Feb! What a great help you were to me throughout those days!

I must say, here and now, I am very sorry for the reactions of some here. It seems to be just as we spoke of in that "other world" I wasn't "a part of" because of my penmaking methods. You helped me so much to understand the DIVIDE between that "Fountain Pen" world and this venue. You helped me understand we are both in the SAME WORLD . . . just at different ends, maybe. You kept reminding me to be patient with those people. And by Sunday I felt just as much "a part of" that world with a whole new view of a horizon that includes mountains and valleys, sand and water - things are coming together.

I love your website. Verywell done! I'm quite impressed! And it was good to read your article on penmaking. Of course actually having met you and spent time with you gave me an advantage over many here. But there are some who may someday aspire to that CNC lathe. Personally, I'm one of them.

You also know the joy of turning pens with handtools. I've seen your work! I'm glad you are a part of this group and I do hope you will give us time to aquaint ourselves with you and your many talents and gifts and wisdom. Maybe we can see these are just two horizons from the same mountain.

Welcome, Chris!
Cathy Sue
 

helgi

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First of welcome to the group Chris, hope you have a sense of humor.Read your essay and found it very well put forward everyone should think about the objectives and follow their hearth. Up here in the cold north we hope you stick around and that we may read some more of the insights you have.I'm one of those that turns kit pens on a general lathe, and get happy when I see the smile and delight on a face that relishes one of my creations,but then it is a hobby for me and if I sell one or two jesus I'm in heaven. I also hope that the sniping and trowing of acid will stop. Just my thoughts. Helgi
 

donald19

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Polson, MT, USA.
Many years ago someone gave me this prayer for speaking and expressing my comments.

Dear God (or a supreme being of your choice)
Please make my words and comments sweet and tender, for tomorrow I may have to eat them.

Welcome Chris and one and all for being members here.
 

TowMater

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Kansas City, MO, USA.
Chris,

I'm not going to read the article as it's too late for me, I've already jumped into the deep end of this pool. I will say that I visited your website (you need to fix your link in your profile it's missing the www part which throws it off)and was quite impressed with your pens.

I've only been doing this for a few months as a hobby, but I look forward to learning things from guys like you and others here that have been doing this along time.

Todd
 

DocStram

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One of the basic, fundamental premises of the IAP forum is that every IAP member has a "seat at the table". We each have the right to say what we think . . . as long as written words reflect respect and dignity towards each other.

Although I am a Yankee by blood, I've lived in the South for the past 25 years. One thing my Southern neighbors taught me long ago is that "we don't talk ugly to each other."

If you are unwilling or unable to express your opinions in a respectful, caring manner . . . we ask that you find yourself another forum so that you can "go talk ugly" somewhere else.
 

arioux

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Kind of long but that's the only way i can say it.

One day in my life, few years ago i realize that retirement was near and that i had to find myself something to keep me occupied. I always loved working with wood so i started to look on the internet for wood hobby. And bang, i stumbled on Russ Fairfield site. Went thru the site a dozen time, start to look around for pen turning back to Russ's site and said to myself "i can do that if i want to" and voila i'm hooked. Started from scratch, spent over $4,000 (yes $4,000) in equipment, material and kits and started turning. Could have been less but i choose this path because i could afford it. I then joined this site, started to discover other way of turning and other material. Everytime that i tought i was getting there, someone comes in with a new idea or a new technique that pushes me further.
I saw the Gisi's pens, and all the other of the PMG. I saw Ed Davidson coming with new original casting, i saw new unbelievable material being used. I saw Btboone with it's astounding flame pen. I saw wothless blanks that where good for the trash can few mounths ago being turned into faboulus pieces because of someone creativity. And everyone of those people where ready to share their craftmanship with me.

Today i see Chris work, and i kind of feel like when i saw Russ Fairfield site for the first time. Thanks you Chris

Today is an other step in my penmaking knowledge evolution.

Is IAP a fantastic place to be when you take the time to look a it with the eyes that brought you here?

Alfred
 

Texatdurango

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Originally posted by gketell

I find it interesting that some of the most vile comments come from the newest members of the forum. I guess they are used to other forums where being nasty is "the norm".

Please folks, be civil.

The way I see it is that we shouldn't ASK for civility after an outburst, we should demand members know the rules before hand and say good bye to them when they launch an attack such as this again. The forum rules are very specific in regards to what happened here and almost every item in the rule below was broken several times in this dog pile. Is enforcing the rules too harsh? I don't think so, if everyone knows the rules and the concequences, this outbreak wouldn't have happened.

For those members who didn't take the time to read the rules, here is one of them, you might care to read the rest as well.

No personal Attacks. Criticize ideas, not people. Flaming will not be tolerated. Broad, negative statements about individuals are not permitted.
 

arioux

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Hi,

Cut and paste from the IAP mission page (Hope Jeff won't mind)

Mission Statement:
The International Association of Penturners (IAP) is an organization that recognizes penturning as a branch of woodturning with unique and distinctive character. Penturning encompasses a vast array of techniques, materials, technical knowledge, and novel approaches to produce a functional, aesthetically appealing writing instrument. The goal of the IAP is to give penturners a place to enhance their skills, share experiences, and promote the art of penturning.


Alfred
 

GaryMGg

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Hi Chris, welcome to the IAP. I read the article with great interest as I'm sure the day will come when my kit pens will be my own kits. I appreciate that you shared your personal experiences and I'll wager there's a lot more interesting tidbits to come. ;)

I've learned something else from this thread to add to the `Axioms of Peaceful discussions': Don't talk religion, politics, nor pen-making. [}:)][}:)] :D;)

And Doc, you turned out awright for a Yankee [:p]

cheers,
G
 

Johneone

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Murrieta, CA.
As a newcomer to the IAP I would like to say that Chris's insight into making pens was exactly what I hoped I would find here.

We all strive for perfection in what we do - each has a different idea of what that is. I am currently making kit pens, but strive to make pens that remind me of the ones I use in my youth. E.G. Closed end pens with threads in the body of the material.

I have learned a lot from reading articles here and am glad that we have people who want to push the boundaries and create attractive pens. I do not consider that a pen has to be a one off to be attractive - it's the design that counts, and the skill in creating it. Sometimes that means that you use a high price piece of equipment to get the precision that you need.

If you can afford it fine.
 

Rmartin

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Jan 14, 2007
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I was a carpenter before I was born. My grandfather was a master furniture maker and so was his father. It skipped a generation with my father; he became a doctor. I spent much of my life as a businessman in retail and restaurant management and ownership. I was successful in each endeavor, but left unfullfilled until at 35 years of age I decided to build my dream home. I bought a piece of land, dug the footing by hand, and with not much more than a circular saw, nail pouch and framing square, I found my calling in life. Ten years later I was a general contractor with a dozen subcontactors and over a hundred houses built. Then came the steel beams and metal studs of commercial contracting. Now I contract from the military at Ft. Benning Ga. My specialty is metal doors and frames. Just the other day I installed a prison grade door for an arms room. The First Sargent was more than pleased because he no longer needed to post a 24 hour guard. He laughed when I thanked him for his service and told him installing that door was what I lived for.

A little more than a year ago while searching for some exotic wood online, I came across a site which was offering something called "pen blanks". I had no idea what that was. I got my feet wet on the yahoo penturners page until I found this forum.

What has all this to do with this thread? To use this as a metaphor, as a pen turner, I am back to building my first house. Will I take this all the way to commercial building and structures? Maybe, but I can tell you this, I am more proud of that first house I built than the last strip center.

I've been online since 1997, and have seen instant posting of the net raise it's ugly head before, but never on this site. I am greatfull to all the advanced pen turners who share their knowledge and expertise here, but my heart is with the penturner who gets up the nerve to post a picture of his/her first pen.

Thanks to you all, and I hope one day I will be able to give back in some small way my experiances and advancements in penturning.
 

bradbn4

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Jan 26, 2006
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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA.
Thanks for the info on pen turning - while I know what my answers to each question today is - not sure if those will be the same answers in 10 years. However; these are some of the questions anyone should ask - how deep should I go, etc.

When saying did not have the power - capability, ability to hog out material - or are your pens so large they require the really big machines?

I have been looking at geting a smallish metal lathe to make some of my parts...why? not sure - but i think I could learn some neat things...

Bradbn4 having some fun here in Colorado
 

bitshird

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Adamsville, TN, USA.
George, I totally agree with you, and also that which Lou said, I believe that we also have an advanced pen making forum here on IAP which if I am not mistaken is for the promotion and making of kit less pens and you were the prime motivator for.
Lou also sells upgrade fountain pen nibs! if this is snobbery then OK I'll play and be a snob.
I've been out in the shop carving some wax patterns for nibs and doing the CAD work for some center bands, I guess I should just forget all this silly make it as good as you can stuff, go back to cranking out 15.00 slim lines, after all why should any one aspire to be a better artisan or skilled craftsman !!!!
I found Chris's website very informative and if I had the talent H*ll yes I'd be making pens like that.[^] I'll step off my soap box and go back to my shop :(
Originally posted by Texatdurango

You know if some of you would sit back and think for a minute before spouting off with all your hateful attitudes you might just learn something!

I imagine when Chris wrote his article several years ago he didn't have the IAP membership in mind and he was probably addressing a whole different audience, the type of people wanting to start making pens to compete with the "big boys". It's a whole different world when you are making pens to compete with the big names where every cap fits perfectly, every part matches up exacting tolerances and you pay almost $100 for a clip and use solid gold accent bands!

In comparison, many around here bitch and moan because they are dissatisfied with the plating on a $3 kit yet go ahead and craft their "one of a kind" unique writing instrument anyway!

I can see where some don't see their business ventures the same way Chris saw his and that’s fine but this thread turned into a hateful pathetic bashing real quick…. On someone you don’t even know!

From his very first posts he was willing to share everything he has learned over the years and I truly believe he was just trying to share information with us and this is how we welcome him to the forum?

This thread has turned into nothing short of a dog pile with each poster getting bolder and bolder with their comments and I think it’s appalling and absolutely pathetic! You all ought to feel real proud of yourselves... and don't forget to visit the new members forum and welcome some others members onboard while your at it!
 

RogerGarrett

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Feb 23, 2006
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Bloomington, Illinois, USA.
I logged in this morning looking for MPG 2008 comments, and stumbled across this thread. I've read all four pages of responses to Chris' first post, then I read the article.

I'm scratching my head trying to find what was wrong with the article. I didn't sense any negative, implied negatives, or anything else. This just seemed like an informative, thought-provoking discussion of the direction Chris took.

It kind of dampened the fun and relaxed experience from Champaign yesterday. I wish I hadn't read this thread - but on the other hand, I wouldn't have found Chris's website or his article. There is a silver lining.......

I hope we hear from Chris again.:)

Best wishes,
Roger Garrett
 

woodchuckcuda

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Mar 13, 2008
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Pennell
Well T Chris, I haven't read your article yet. I plan to. However, I've noticed you are sure talented and capable in the art of raising comments.
 
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