Smooth finish... how?

[Ulises Victoria]

Hello all. I keep looking at those nice pens all over this place.
I have turned about 20 pens in the last 8 or 10 days.
No matter how much I polish them, the final wood always has some small cracks and the finish is never really smooth. What am I missing here?
Is it the quality of the wood? (Padauk and rosewood. Bamboo comes out more smooth.) How can I achieve that glass like surface in any kind of wood?
I usually sand to 2000 grit and then apply Shellawax Cream or Boiled linseed oil.
If I apply CA first as a finish, it goes in the cracks leaving white spots.
I am sure I am missing something.
All comments greatly appreciated.

 

[Monty]

Spend some time in the library or on youtube and experiment with the different ways to do a CA finish until you get one that works for you. I would suggest you clean the blank with CA accelerator after sanding but but before applying the CA to remove any dust or natural oil.

 

[Dan26]

One of the things I learned here is to use a really sharp skew for a really smooth finish. I still sand but sometimes I don't need to. I was content with using a roughing gouge for a while, but when I start using the skew even oak comes out very smooth.

 

[JimB]

I would also practice on some other woods. IMO padauk and rosewoods can be a little more difficult. It sounds like you are experiencing a lot of open grain so try some woods with a tighter closed grain.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

The Shellawax is probably getting caught in the grain. Be sure all the dust is off the blank. How many coats are you doing?

 

[IPD_Mr]

Mannie has probably given you some of the best advice. There are so many different ways to do a CA finish and there is just as many to muck it up. The first thing though that hit me was your mention of cracks in the wood. This sounds a bit like heat build up either when turning or sanding. Make sure your tools are good and sharp and don't build up too much heat when sanding. Experiment with a cut up 2x4 if you want. Learn what works for you.

 

[ribanett]

No matter how much I polish them, the final wood always has some small cracks and the finish is never really smooth. What am I missing here?

For your final sanding, are you sanding length-wise down the barrel with the lathe off? This will remove any ridges left from power sanding. Remember to wipe down the blank with either acetone or CA Accelerator before starting to apply your finish.

If I apply CA first as a finish, it goes in the cracks leaving white spots.

Sounds like you are applying too much CA with each coat. Excess CA will cloud or turn white. Two or three drops per barrel is the amount that works for me. What is your way of applying the CA and what type of CA do you use (thick, med, thin)?

Make yourself some practice blanks to develop the way you apply the CA. Its a good way to use all those blank ends. Just drill a 1/4" hole and mount on a waxed mandrel.

 

[nativewooder]

Make sure the wood is dry. If it is green, the moisture can cause CA glue to do strange things.

 

[toyotaman]

Hello all. I keep looking at those nice pens all over this place.
I have turned about 20 pens in the last 8 or 10 days.
No matter how much I polish them, the final wood always has some small cracks and the finish is never really smooth. What am I missing here?
Is it the quality of the wood? (Padauk and rosewood. Bamboo comes out more smooth.) How can I achieve that glass like surface in any kind of wood?
I usually sand to 2000 grit and then apply Shellawax Cream or Boiled linseed oil.
If I apply CA first as a finish, it goes in the cracks leaving white spots.
I am sure I am missing something.
All comments greatly appreciated.

Getting that glass like finish with CA is fairly simple. 1st thing to do is "Do not use BLO" when you want a glass finish. Sometimes it might work ok and sometimes it will not. One of the reasons you have white spots is the too much BLO and it mixed to fast with the CA and the moisture turned it white. I've done that too many times. For a glass finish use straight "Thin" CA. OK,here we go. Sand your blank to 600 grit sanding with the grain between each grit. Turn your lathe speed down to around 300rpm. Get a white paper towel and fold it long ways over and over till its about 1/2" wide. With your lathe running at around 300rpm you will hold the paper towel under the blank and run CA over the blank. Use the paper towel to rub the CA in 2-3 times from one end to the other. Do not apply alot of pressure. Use some sissors and cut the glue piece off the paper towel. Wait about 15 seconds and repeat the process again and again until you put on 6-8 coats of CA. After 6-8 coats of CA you will turn the lathe up to about 1000rpm then wet sand from 1500 through 12000 grit. Make sure the blank stays wet and cool. The first two grits you will wet sand for about 30 seconds each. The rest of them sand about 20 seconds. After the sanding wipe off the blank with a paper towel and apply 1 coat of Huts plastic polish. It should look like a piece of glass by this time with a very deep gloss.Any questions send me a PM. I will help all I can. Donny

 

[butchf18a]

2-cents more

Lots of good advice. Here's another 2-cents worth. Clean your blank with Naptha. It is non-reactive, and a lot less expensive than CA accelerator. I like the blue paper towels. They don't react to the heat of the CA curing as some white ones will, still white works well too. As long as you aren't drenching the blank with CA as you apply it, you won't have a large spot of CA on your paper towel, so simply fold over the end and tear of the used spot. One length of paper towel will give you enough for at lease 10 coats. I like to lightly sand (320 & 600) after 10 coats of CA, micro mesh dry, then 10 more coats. Micro Mesh wet then buff and Rennaisance Wax. I'm not saying it's the right way or the best way, just works well for me. There in lies the truly nice aspect of advice on here, many techniques, practice and try different methodologies until you find one that works for you.

You mention 20 pens in 8-10 days. Are these your first 20 pens or just what you've done lately? Your experience level would help us to guide you. A CA finish is, in my opinion, not for a novice turner. While not a Shellawax fan, I won't be critical of it either since I don't use it. When I do a Shellac/Wax finish I have had a lot of success with Hut Crystal Coat. Little bottle lasts a long time, and will quickly provide you with a respectable glossy finish, though certainly not as deep a gloss or durable as CA.

Toyotaman makes excellent point regarding BLO (boiled lindseed oil). While there a several UTube and IAP techniques that recomment it's use, I've found it is the fastest and best way to destroy what could have been a superior finish for all the reasons Toy... enumerates. I too have remade my share of expensive pens that turned white. Of course they don't turn white until after they are assembled.

 

[spilperson]

Here is a different idea - turn a couple of acrylic pens, just to practice the basic polishing and get your confidence up. Also let me reinforce the suggestions to go all the way to 12000 grit. I did not see where anyone specifically recommended Micro Mesh, but they make excellent polishing pads that go all the way to 12000 grit.

What type of lathe are you using?

Good luck!

 

[ghostrider]

It is possible that you may not be doing an adequate job of sanding if your going all the way up to 2000 before applying CA.

I don't even use the Micro Mesh anymore because I've found I can get a glass finish without it. Just make sure to do a good job of sanding up to 2K. I use wet/dry sandpaper starting at 400-2K. After that, either use plastic polish, or buff with Tripoli, then white diamond, then Carnuba wax. I sand the blanks up to 600 before applying the CA (don't see a need to go higher, and I used to go to 2K), and go to 2K after CA. How low I start after CA depends on how bad I did before that point. If I do my part right, I shouldn't need to go below 600, but I'm still new at this.

I don't know how to transfer the pic from this computer, but the pics in the following thread don't show the shine (glassy) like it truly is.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=88514

The main thing is to do a good job of sanding. If you can find scratches before the CA, then they'll look worse after the CA. After CA, going with grain at each grit allows you to see if you've gotten rid of the radial scratches. If they are still there, then you aren't finished.

And yes, thin CA is the way to go. Some recommend medium, but if you apply the thin properly, then the medium will be unecessary, and can just make the job longer because of ridges.

 

[Ulises Victoria]

Thank you all! So much advice and so many questions back.
These first 20 pens are the very first I have turned ever. I am using a Turnmaster Commander 12" Variable speed lathe, which I bought from PSI as a starters kit with all the materials needed to turn 20 pens.
I have used several finish methods so far: When I apply CA I use 2-3 drops of thin CA with a paper towel doing just 2-3 passes of the towel along the blank, then I do a few more coats with med. I have used BLO (Finally I knew what you guys meant by BLO ) applying 6-7 coats of it, but NEVER CA AND BLO together. I have used Shellawax putting 6-7 coats. I sand all the way from 150 to 600, stopping the lathe and doing length-wise sanding. Then I go with the black sanding paper from 600 to 2000. I have used it both wet and dry.
Actually my latest pens came out a bit better. Maybe I just need more practice and experimenting!

 

[kooseman]

Please excuse my ignorance as a novice penturner but what exactly is a CA finish?
I see one advice tip indicated it's not typically for a novice turner. As such, I would like some advice on finishing for a novice as myself. Currently, I'm using EEE applied with a white paper towel and buffed with the same. I'm satisfied with the finish but certainly would like to know more about alternative finishes and their applications. Is there a reference on the various types of finishes? Thanks again for all your advice.

 

[Ulises Victoria]

CA finish is a finish you do using Cyanoacrylate glue (super glue, krazy glue)
Since I am not an expert either, I suggest you go to the links in the first answer to this thread, or search youtube. There are many videos about the subject there.
Best regards.

 

[StephenM]

I'm a bit different and don't like the "plastic" look that CA imparts. My finishing regimen is:

Sand up to 600 (with the grain while the lathe is stopped)

Wipe the blanks down with BLO

Soak the blanks with BLO and let it sit for 5 minutes or so - just soak a paper towel and then apply it to the blanks(s) until they're dripping. Do this 2 or 3 times.

Turn on the lathe and wipe down with the paper towel soaked with BLO until you have a nice polish and the BLO is cured.

Next switch to clear shellac (straight out of the can) Build up 8 or 10 coats with the lathe running using a paper towel dipped in the shellac.

Shut off the lathe and do a "french polish" - use a paper towel with shellac on it and apply a drop of BLO to the blank. Buff the blank with the grain using the shellac soaked paper towel. If it starts to stick, add another drop or 2 of BLO. This eliminates any rings that developed from applying the shellac while the lathe was spinning.

Next apply 5 or 6 coats of Mylands friction polish (a shellac and wax mixture) with the lathe running

Then apply some HUT wax and chase the white ring until the original polish is back.

NOTE: When working with BLO, you have to be very careful as the rags/paper towels that you use are subject to spontaneous combustion. Lay out any old cloths or paper towels to dry before you throw them away or dispose of them in a fire rated trashcan.

 

[kooseman]

Thanks Ulises. I appreciate your direction.

 

[leestoresund]

I tend to use BLO with an open grain wood. (Paduak, oak, walnut) Put the BLO on sandpaper (320, 400 grit) and sand the blank while turning. This creates a slurry that will fill in the pores and match the wood perfectly.
Then go on to finish with your best method.

All of the questions you will not shorten your learning curve quicker than practice. YouTube has lots of good videos on pen finishing.

Lee

 

[Akula]

if your sanding pressure is wrong, then heat will build up and you get cracks

I use very little pressure and let the paper do the work

 

[Flaturner]

Not sure why anyone would say that a CA finish is not for novices. I started with a CA finish on my third pen and after a very few pens was very pleases with the finish I was putting on. If you never start using a finish, you will never get good at using it. The earlier in your turning experience you start something, the earlier you will become proficient at it. Finally, practice, practice, practice.

 

[rsulli16]

hi
use youtube!! i love it.
then practise, i had a buch of problems at first, then after a while, they vanished, now it seems so easy, but here was a period there i was looking to chuck CA altogether.
Watch all the youtubes vids, try each, eventualy you'll pick one, or blend some, then do it that way, which will be the way it works for you!
my two cents worth
Sulli

 

[Gilrock]

I had the exact same problem on one piece of wood. I decided the issue is that I didn't put enough CA coats on the wood before the first sanding of the CA glue. What happens is you have the crevices in the wood and if they aren't sufficiently covered with several layers of CA then when you sand the CA dust collects in those crevices and looks really bad. It's not easy to get it back clean again. I think I finally ended up just dumping more CA on the blank and it melds with the CA dust and ends up not looking white anymore. I've tried the CA slurry method and I feel like I end up sanding off almost everything I apply. Plus when I have a segmented blank or a blank with several colors I didn't think a CA slurry is a good idea because you end up with one color wood filling in the gaps of another color wood.

Gil