Sensitization

[Haynie]

What are the symptoms.

I noticed that the last time I did a CA finish that my face started itching something fierce. That being said there was no reaction where I hosed my fingers with CA laminating some wood.

I figure it is not the case but want to know what to look for.

 

[Donovan's Corner]

Are you wearing a respirator?

 

[Haynie]

Sometimes. The shop is well vented.

 

[Ruby pen turning]

I turned pens for about a year. This summer I started getting swollen puffy and itchy eyes. I know for sure it is from one of two things. Either the CA or the accelerator. I am pretty sure it is the CA, so now I use a small fan to blow the fumes away when applying it.

 

[Ted iin Michigan]

Yeah, I developed a sensitivity to CA dust. Really plugs me up. So now I use the respirator (a good one, not just a mask) AND I wet sand (with either water or mineral spirits) whenever I can. The respirator applies to whenever I raise dust in the shop. Even a Shop-Vac clean up can "bring it on"

If I booger up and forget, I've found that Claritin (OTC) helps.

And be sure to wash up when you're done. If you forget and eat lunch without cleaning up, you might as well not wear the respirator in the first place.

 

[PTsideshow]

Information from generic CA glue

Acute Health Effects: From MSDS
Toxicity: Skin contact may cause burns. Bonds skin rapidly and strongly. Skin and eye irritant.

Primary Routes of Entry: None known
Signs and Symptoms of Exposure: Vapor is irritating to eyes and mucous membranes above TLV (Threshold Limit Value). Exposure to vapors above the established limits may cause symptoms of non-allergic asthma.

Existing Conditions Aggravated by Exposure: None known
Chronic Health Effects: From MSDS
Exposure to vapors above the established limits may cause symptoms of non-allergic asthma.

The above is from a generic CA type glue. Go to the Adhesives makers web site and down load thier MSDS (material safety data sheet) They are required by law to have them available for the asking. Other than for proprietary chemicals in the formula they will list in formation on health effects. Toxicity etc. You should have one for each solvent, paint, and other materials for casting and stabilization. That you have in the shop, in case your family has to rush you to the emergency room. The Doctors will ask what the person was using and do you have a MSDS for it.
There are a number of sites that have information on products.
Household products database Your tax dollars @ work Health & Human services.
Consumers Product Information database Has some of the better known brand names.
Environmental Health & Toxicology
Chemical information
Both sites more of your tax dollars @ work Health and Human services.
:clown:

 

[Donovan's Corner]

I would add a respirator to your full time CA usage list along with goggles if you are beginning to react or just a safety precaution. The more barriers you use between you and the fumes the safer you are.

My wife requires I use PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) when working with CA since a pen making acquaintance told her that CA wreaked havoc on her sinuses and surgery was required to undo the damage.

 

[Haynie]

Sounds like I get to wear the respirator all the time. Better safe than itchy.

 

[RSidetrack]

I always wear a respirator. When I dont the fumes burn my sinuses something fierce. I don't get a reaction but it cant be good. I typically don't wear it if wet sanding but a must if dry sanding even wood.

 

[Papo]

Mann Man, I spend New Years Day in the ER with my eyes AND face swelled up like you would not believe.Could have been CA glue,could have been the wood I was turning.Well to sum it all up I was given some steroids shots,(they helped)but now I get to see an allergist to find out more about what happenned.So you could be blaming the CA glue but it could be the wood.AND the ER Doctor told me next attacks are going to be worst so I have not been to the shop since.

 

[Wildman]

I cut back using CA glue to almost nil. Have not ordered any in couple years. Once you become sensitized to the CA not worth health problems.

Now use epoxy for glue up and other clear finishes for pen blanks. In addition to respirator and ventilation, wearing gloves also helps.

 

[PTsideshow]

I will also point out that in addition to the CA glue one of the biggest chemical culprits that can cause people to become sensitized to is the chemicals used in the activators. Seems every maker has their own formulas. It is hard to say some contain Heptane or a chemically similar cousin which is a neurotoxin/nerve damaging material in large or repeated exposures. So a good respirator rated for the proper fumes is a must.

The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose, and throat. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert. These risks can be minimized by using CA in well ventilated areas. About 5% of the population can become sensitized to CA fumes after repeated exposure

Get and read the MSDS( material Data Safety sheets for the products you use, keep them in a binder and let somebody else known what and where they are kept in case you are take to the ER in a state that you can't communicate with the doctors.

More and more government agencies, are requiring businesses, local governments, schools, shops to have a MSDS binder. even some commercial insurance companies are requiring two binders one stored off site, in case of a fire.

One other important item is that the medical grade of CA is slightly different in formulation related compound 2-octy cyanoacrylate is a medical grade glue; it was developed to be non-toxic and less irritating to skin tissue.
:clown:

 

[wouldentu2?]

Before you give up on CA or spend the money on a forced air respirator try this;

Don't spray the accelerator onto the pen but spray the accelerator onto a small 1.5" x 1.5" piece of rag in a box. Three squirts on the rag lasts long enough to finish the pen.

Use the odorless CA, I use Super Gold from the hobby shop. Its expensive 12.99 for an ounce. Available in thick and thin.

I have been using this for a year and have not had tat feeling like I was coming down with something. This in a 12 x 20 shop with no ventilation.

 

[healeydays]

Well I guess my use of CA is over. I had been bringing some blanks I was making with watch parts upstairs to sit in the tV room with my wife to have some quality time as I have been gluing the parts onto the tube and I noticed that I kept having nasal issues. Now at first I thought it might be pollen allergies as everything outside has been blooming, but a couple weeks ago it got so bad that I thought I had the flu and stopped working on the projects.

Well it cleared up and I thought, ok, I had a bad summer cold and that was it. This weekend, I got back into my routine of CA to glue parts onto tubes and guess what came back?

After doing some reading and chatting with my doctor, I realized what was going on. So I will keep 1 tube of CA in the house for medical emergencies, but the rest is gone. Now I have to find an alternative that is fast drying, doesn't leave residue, plays well with Alumilite and Silmar 41 and is safe for my wife sitting next to me.

Sorry to vent, but I know alot of you folks know what I am talking about, so where better to vent...

Mike B

 

[mikespenturningz]

Or just stop using regular CA. I think it is the fumes that are put off by regular CA that does it to me. I use only Odorless UFO CA made by Hot Stuff for my pens but I also don't finish with it. Odorless is way too expensive for finishing IMHO.

 

[Monty]

Mike,
I would wager odorless CA is the way to go...but it is more expensive. Ed at Exotics has some odorless also.

 

[islandturner]

Good to see this CA discussion...

Like many here, when applying CA at the lathe, I experienced burning eyes and cold-like symptoms for about a day afterwards (plugged nasal passages, etc), and had trouble sleeping. The cure for me has been:

1. A good quality respirator – used not only for CA application and sanding, but all sanding operations. All of that fine dust from all the different exotic materials we use is potentially hazardous – you do not want it in your lungs.

2. A small fan right on the headstock, blowing the CA fumes away from my face (I don't have a dust collection system, so don't have the suction hose there to pull the fumes in)

3. A powerful ventilation fan, that'll replace the shop air in five or ten minutes. Mine's in the ceiling in the center of the room, vented with 8" ducting to the outside. I leave the shop for a coffee break after CA operations, with that fan going to suck out lingering fumes and fine dust.

After about a year with the same respirator, I noticed that it was getting a bit harder to pull air through it. Took the filters apart and discovered a hard thin layer comprised of fine dust, and I suspect, CA fumes. So just bought a new one with replaceable filters, that I'll change more often. All the unpleasant CA symptoms disappeared with the respirator.

I've also switched to Wood Turners Finish (WTF) for most lower to medium priced pens – just use CA on the pricier ones. Ed at Exotic Blanks has an awesome U-tube video of how to use it. I like the look of WTF versus CA. (But there is no long-term info re its longevity, as with CA.)

My 2 cents...

 

[healeydays]

Great idea for the respirator and fan, but when sitting with the wife in the tv room sharing hobby time, don't think sh'd be too excited wearing a mask. Maybe the odorless CA can be tried...

BTW, my wife isn't that old and doesn't knit (just in case she's checking up on me)

 

[BSea]

BTW, my wife isn't that old and doesn't knit (just in case she's checking up on me)

Oh, ok. So which one is you?:biggrin:

 

[Haynie]

I just quit using CA. About the time my problems started I was noticing the broken windshield effect on some wood pens that was in the shop. With big temp and humidity fluctuations during that time I guess the wood needed room to stretch out. So CA not used anymore. I have not found a substitute for finishing but 5 min epoxy is working great for gluing in the tubes.

 

[keithbyrd]

Interesting discussion:
about two years ago I developed a strong reaction to perfumes, colognes and other chemicals with scents in them. After being exposed to them I feel like I have the flu for a while. Lots of aching, tired and generally miserable feeling. My wife said it had to be started by the exposure to CA. I disagreed. I can feel lousy from other chemicals and go to the shop and after working for a while feel much better!!
I use Stick Fast CA and Activator - But I have a dust collection system so turn it on to pull fumes away from me when working with CA and also have a fan blowing over my shoulder to accomplish the same thing. Rarely do I get the fumes and never get stuffy or red eyed.