avbill
Member
I want to some soft curves into wooden blanks and create a thin metal design. I'm in the process of looking to purchase a new band saw. Or would I be better off to review a scroll saw? Any suggestions?
scroll saw or Band saw
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PenMan1
Member
Bill. My answer to this question was, both. I bought an inexpensive Ryobi Scroll Saw ($99) and a good quality 14 inch band saw. The little scroll is varaible speed, accepts most scroll blades and works perfectly well for designs, etc EXCEPT when I use big chunks of aluminum or brass.
The bandsaw is set up with a Woodslicer blade, urathane tires, Kreg fence and miter gauge. I use it mostly for resawing. But on the RARE ocassion that I have a tougher design than the scroll saw will handle, I change to a good quality (Olsen, I think) blade and use the bandsaw for design work.
My bandsaw takes a "little bit" to change and properly reset blades, so I find my self "rethinking" designs that are too cumbersome for the scroll saw.
My scroll saw is used almost 100% of the time on pen work. My band saw works on almost every project (wood or metal) that I attempt. I HAD to have a band saw, but I use the scroll saw more for pen design.
I hope this makes sense! I am curious to see what others think.
The bandsaw is set up with a Woodslicer blade, urathane tires, Kreg fence and miter gauge. I use it mostly for resawing. But on the RARE ocassion that I have a tougher design than the scroll saw will handle, I change to a good quality (Olsen, I think) blade and use the bandsaw for design work.
My bandsaw takes a "little bit" to change and properly reset blades, so I find my self "rethinking" designs that are too cumbersome for the scroll saw.
My scroll saw is used almost 100% of the time on pen work. My band saw works on almost every project (wood or metal) that I attempt. I HAD to have a band saw, but I use the scroll saw more for pen design.
I hope this makes sense! I am curious to see what others think.
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workinforwood
Member
Scroll saw is one of the most versatile tools you can own. With proper thought it can cut almost any material and do things that people think only lasers can achieve. Heck, my scroll saw can cut granite.
If you are into the thin metal inlay pens with all those nice waves, then a scroll saw is critical. The whole concept of the design is based on having a blade that is the same width as the metal used. You typically use metals that are very thin, like thin cardboard sheets. Bandsaw blades do not come that thin and they do not like super tight curves. The idea is that the kerf of the blade is replaced with the metal. If the kerf is wider than the metal, then the pieces will not line back up exactly the same. Much easier to control your cuts with a scrollsaw too. Although a scrollsaw is not good for cutting thick metals, it can cut through the thin sheet metal while it is glued into the blank, which is comparable to cutting through 3/4 thick steel albeit for a short distance. The thickest metal I have cut for significant length is 3/4" aluminum billet and that was no problem at all...just a bit time consuming. The slower your speed, the faster you get to the other side...just like when you hack saw a metal rod.
When purchasing a scrollsaw, do not buy a machine that accepts pin blades at all. You want a machine that only accepts pinless blades. That is very important. Very important. yep, that's critical important. If it says it will take pin blades and pinless blades..that's not good. You want a machine that takes pinless blades only. Can't say that enough! Pins are bad.
If you are into the thin metal inlay pens with all those nice waves, then a scroll saw is critical. The whole concept of the design is based on having a blade that is the same width as the metal used. You typically use metals that are very thin, like thin cardboard sheets. Bandsaw blades do not come that thin and they do not like super tight curves. The idea is that the kerf of the blade is replaced with the metal. If the kerf is wider than the metal, then the pieces will not line back up exactly the same. Much easier to control your cuts with a scrollsaw too. Although a scrollsaw is not good for cutting thick metals, it can cut through the thin sheet metal while it is glued into the blank, which is comparable to cutting through 3/4 thick steel albeit for a short distance. The thickest metal I have cut for significant length is 3/4" aluminum billet and that was no problem at all...just a bit time consuming. The slower your speed, the faster you get to the other side...just like when you hack saw a metal rod.
When purchasing a scrollsaw, do not buy a machine that accepts pin blades at all. You want a machine that only accepts pinless blades. That is very important. Very important. yep, that's critical important. If it says it will take pin blades and pinless blades..that's not good. You want a machine that takes pinless blades only. Can't say that enough! Pins are bad.
Mark
Member
I have a band saw for all my pen work at this stage. I have a 22 year old scroll saw waiting for a delicate cut when needed, however, mine has a (pinned) blade. :frown:
Dan26
Member
Eric,
Both Dewalt and Excalibur take pinless blades. The problem with pinned blades is when doing detailed fretwork, you may have to thread the blade into a very small drilled hole. The pinned blades ain't going to go through a small hole. There's a short answer.
Dan
Both Dewalt and Excalibur take pinless blades. The problem with pinned blades is when doing detailed fretwork, you may have to thread the blade into a very small drilled hole. The pinned blades ain't going to go through a small hole. There's a short answer.
Dan
jttheclockman
Member
Can't get small enough blades and they do not cut as well. Also they other post mentioned about fret work. So many more choices of blades with pinless saws. Dewalt and Excalibur are pinless as well as RBI, Hegner, and not sure on all the cheaper ones such as Porter Cable or Ryobi.
workinforwood
Member
Yep..like JT says. Also, saws that use pin blades require an adaptor to use pinless blades. The adaptor is a real PIA. The adaptor creates a 3rd pivot point, and sometimes even creates 4 pivot points depending on the saw. A regular pinless saw only has 2 pivot points. More pivot points means your blade will wander as you have less control, and when the blade breaks, the adaptor or adaptors fly out of the saw and you have to retrieve them. It takes longer to change a blade because you have to install the blade into the adaptor and then into the pin sets. Using a pin blade is not faster than using a pinless blade when it comes to blade changes either. I bet I can change my pinless blade faster than you can change a pin blade.
I would not recommend a saw lesser than the Dewalt. It is the bottom of the line choice in more expensive saws...this means it is a great saw, just the bottom of the list of great saws to own. If you are going to buy a scroll saw, you want a saw that can do almost anything so it won't turn you away from wanting to use it, yet at the same time, you dont' know how much scrolling you will do throughout your life being that you would be new at it, and so the Dewalt is the best choice for you money. If you were to decide down the road you hate to scroll things, then the saw is easy to unload without you losing all your money. If you were an experienced scroller and knew that you would use the machine to death, then I'd recommend getting into a Hegner, Excalibur or RBI.
If you buy a machine for $50 at a box store, you will be turned off. It will give you a false impression of the true versatility of the machine. Sure, at first you will have to learn proper techniques for scrolling, so you will be to blame, but it's difficult to hone your skills with junk equipment. I'd buy a 1950 craftsman spring loaded piston scrollsaw before I'd buy one of them cheap box store machines.
You know not that long ago, all machines used pinless blades. The blades go into a blade holder, which is a hole and it has a little screw, usually allen key type screw that is tightened with a wrench to hold the blade in place. I don't know the facts, but I theorize that someone came up with the idea of putting two little pins on the sides of the blade and a little U shaped holder because that would make changing blades much quicker than having to wrench on a set screw every time you changed a blade. That sounds logical, except for the fact that the pins are a weak point and they won't fit through small holes. The real solution was to alter the blade holder. When you look at a Dewalt, you will see it has a quick set holder. You just push the blade between two clamps and pull a lever that locks it in place. I have the same device on my RBI, but had to purchase them aftermarket for my saw.
I would not recommend a saw lesser than the Dewalt. It is the bottom of the line choice in more expensive saws...this means it is a great saw, just the bottom of the list of great saws to own. If you are going to buy a scroll saw, you want a saw that can do almost anything so it won't turn you away from wanting to use it, yet at the same time, you dont' know how much scrolling you will do throughout your life being that you would be new at it, and so the Dewalt is the best choice for you money. If you were to decide down the road you hate to scroll things, then the saw is easy to unload without you losing all your money. If you were an experienced scroller and knew that you would use the machine to death, then I'd recommend getting into a Hegner, Excalibur or RBI.
If you buy a machine for $50 at a box store, you will be turned off. It will give you a false impression of the true versatility of the machine. Sure, at first you will have to learn proper techniques for scrolling, so you will be to blame, but it's difficult to hone your skills with junk equipment. I'd buy a 1950 craftsman spring loaded piston scrollsaw before I'd buy one of them cheap box store machines.
You know not that long ago, all machines used pinless blades. The blades go into a blade holder, which is a hole and it has a little screw, usually allen key type screw that is tightened with a wrench to hold the blade in place. I don't know the facts, but I theorize that someone came up with the idea of putting two little pins on the sides of the blade and a little U shaped holder because that would make changing blades much quicker than having to wrench on a set screw every time you changed a blade. That sounds logical, except for the fact that the pins are a weak point and they won't fit through small holes. The real solution was to alter the blade holder. When you look at a Dewalt, you will see it has a quick set holder. You just push the blade between two clamps and pull a lever that locks it in place. I have the same device on my RBI, but had to purchase them aftermarket for my saw.
PaulDoug
Member
Eric, if you are not in a great hurry watch Craigslist. I have seen some very good deals there on RBI Hawks. I have the Dewalt, and it is a great saw. If I have been more patient I could have gotten a slightly use better saw for the same price or less.
PenMan1
Member
My $99 Ryobi uses pinless blades and other than when I tried to cut 1/2 inch aluminum bars, it has never failed to do the job I needed it to do. Granted, I am not a master scroller, and don't ever intend to be. But, for making nice designs in pen blanks, it does a fine job. For the price of an RBI, I can almost buy a laser. For me the smaller investment that meets my needs was a better solution. It is an 18" model with a cast body and teflon coated table. It is EXACTLY the same as the Craftsman model as Ryobi actually also made the Craftsman Scroll Saw.
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avbill
Member
I found a dremel 1671 for 100bucks brand new. still in the box Is this a good deal?
bill
bill
jttheclockman
Member
NO
that is what you can get them for.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DREMEL-1671-2-SPEED-SCROLL-SAW-/320521276591
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