Provo Display Contest

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ctEaglesc

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Originally posted by bgisi
<br />"For example the 1st Place pen in the 7mm category by Mark Gisi fits that "ugly and bizzare" definition perfectly."


Excellent dialog! I have been turning pens for a couple years now and I have yet to create the perfect pen that is loved by all. But rest assured, I will keep trying! My guess is Mark will as well.

I also believe a little competition is good for the hobby and good for the soul. No sense riding the pine next year. Send something in and give us all a taste of "class and elegance".

Like the winning pen had you stopped your post a little sooner it would have been a good one.
The line about challenging Frank to submit a pen that shows class and elegance proves if he did you wouldn't know it.
Didn't see your first post but the second one is as tasteful as that pen.
Franks at least was polite,and funny
 
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DCBluesman

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I don't want to make this the Brian and Mark story, but I spent a great deal of time looking at their pens. While any one pen may or may not suit an individual's fancy, I can tell you from observation (I didn't dare touch them for fear of jinxing them [:D]), these are some of the most innovative and daring pens you will ever see. Accuracy of angles, glue-ups of 1mm and 2mm thicknesses of an extremely wide variety of materials...the kind of stuff I dream about but truly don't imagine ever being able to replicate. In terms of beauty, some like Picasso, some like Pollock, some like DaVinci, some like Norman Rockwell. To each his own as far as taste, but these things were mini engineering and craftsmanship marvels. In my (never humble) opinion. BTW, every pen submitted along with the hundreds more that were displayed in the instant gallery added a great deal of sparkle to the Rendezvous. Again, thanks to all who displayed their works. [8D]
 

timdaleiden

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Originally posted by cteaglesc

Like the winning pen had you stopped your post a little sooner it would have been a good one.
The line about challenging Frank to submit a pen that shows class and elegance proves if he did you wouldn't know it.
Didn't see your first post but the second one is as tasteful as that pen.
Franks at least was polite,and funny

Nice way to welcome somebody that doesn't post much here.

I happen to consider Brian and Mark's work to be some of the best around. Obviously; many people agree with me.

As far as Frank's polite and funny post..."Ugly and Bizarre" is not exactly polite, and not at all funny.
 

ctEaglesc

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Originally posted by timdaleiden
<br />
Originally posted by cteaglesc

Like the winning pen had you stopped your post a little sooner it would have been a good one.
The line about challenging Frank to submit a pen that shows class and elegance proves if he did you wouldn't know it.
Didn't see your first post but the second one is as tasteful as that pen.
Franks at least was polite,and funny

Nice way to welcome somebody that doesn't post much here.

I happen to consider Brian and Mark's work to be some of the best around. Obviously; many people agree with me.

As far as Frank's polite and funny post..."Ugly and Bizarre" is not exactly polite, and not at all funny.
Welcome????????????
he's been a member here for a few weeks longer than I.
He hasn't really been a fountain of information here now has he?
 

timdaleiden

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Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />
Originally posted by timdaleiden
<br />
Originally posted by cteaglesc

Like the winning pen had you stopped your post a little sooner it would have been a good one.
The line about challenging Frank to submit a pen that shows class and elegance proves if he did you wouldn't know it.
Didn't see your first post but the second one is as tasteful as that pen.
Franks at least was polite,and funny

Nice way to welcome somebody that doesn't post much here.

I happen to consider Brian and Mark's work to be some of the best around. Obviously; many people agree with me.

As far as Frank's polite and funny post..."Ugly and Bizarre" is not exactly polite, and not at all funny.
Welcome????????????
he's been a member here for a few weeks longer than I.
He hasn't really been a fountain of information here now has he?

Your response is not exactly an invitation to stick around and chat. I also think you misunderstood what Brian said. I believe his invitation to Frank was a genuine request for him to submit "His" idea of classy and elegant. Not everybody has the same idea of what is classy. What is wrong with that?

I guess everybody has a different idea of what is polite and funny too. I have viewed thousands of pens in the last three years, and I have yet to describe somebody's work as ugly or bizarre (aside from a couple of my own). I have seen everything from very obvious and major flaws, to just things that I didn't care for. "Ugly and Bizarre" is not constructive criticism. Things like "It's too busy looking for me", or "There's too much going on", or "The shape doesn't appeal to me", convey areas where some improvement "may" be useful. How does one address "Ugly and bizarre"?
 

Rifleman1776

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Since I'm the one who lit the fuse here, I will comment on some of the responses to my opinions. Then I'll bow out before it all gets too personal. I like to use words to make a point. I stated my opinion(s). Those statements were not personal attacks. To call the pen in question "ugly and bizzare" was an honest expression of what that pen looks like to me. For the third time, I will stick with that characterization. Chuckie asked me, "After going through <b>all</b> the submissions......which one would get your vote?" I am only able to view the winners, not all the submissions. But of those shown in the 7mm category, I like the plain slim by John Grounds and the two entries by Don Ward. All simple and in good taste. At the same time, I am puzzled by the standards used by those who voted. For example, John Grounds had another 'winner' made of metal. It shows obvious machining rings on the barrel, the two sections do not join neatly and the clip is rather large and clunky. How a winner? [?] Moving on, Eagle said my comments were "polite and funny". I tried to be and thank him for that. Others think differently. That's O.K., y'all are entitled to your opinions. Now, perhaps the best observation and opinion on the subject was by one of the rocks of this forum (for those who jump to conclusions: that was a compliment, as in solid foundation), DCBluesman a/k/a Lou. I'll paraphrase part of his statement regarding the pen I consider U&B. "innovative and daring". Gee! I said something like that too. [:0] "...accuracy of angles....glue ups....wide variety of materials....mini engineering and craftsmanship marvels." Yep, pretty much what I said too. The difference is that I don't see the total package as attractive. Some of the more innovative and talented craftsmen here look at the pen in question with a far different perspective than I. I'm looking at the pen. Not seeing through their eyes, I surmise they are seeing the components and talent that went into the creation. More anologies, and I'm sure to get zinged for these too. That's O.K. I would liken the Gisi pen to a concept car. Wild, ugly, bizzare. But a demonstration of what can be done with some elements that might actually become incorporated into a production vehicle. Or the difference in beauty between a show-girl in a wild dress and heavy makeup compared to a naturaly beautiful woman in a classic, simple small black dress. Or the wild and bizzare fashions shown by major designers to get the attention of buyers. Elements of those dresses are later incorporated into simpler and genuinely attractive clothes that customers will really wear. I tried to convey this idea with the anolgy about the school girl sampler stitching. And, truth be known, I believe that is what Gisi was doing with the pen in question. Demonstrate his talents, which I acknowledge are considerable. And I bow to those talents. There were a lot of posts, I have lost track of who said what on some. I do believe that brother Gisi challenged me to demonstrate what I consider as "classy and elegant". O.K., one is pictured below that I made. I acknowledge that it is no better and, for the most part, not as good as some made by the real talents on this forum. But, in my eyes, the styles offered by our vendors are well-designed and allow for creation of "classy and elegant" pens without a great deal of 'outside the line' innovation on the part of the makers. I'll close by quoting Eagle, with thanks for his support. He is innovative, I am not but we seem to think on the same wavelength. He said, "Not everybody has the same idea of what is classy. What is wrong with that?" Thanks all for reading and responding, I request that if you have problems with my stated opinions from here on that you communicate with me off-forum.


2005622144953_200561214430_abw%20Baron%20plat.jpg
<br />
 

Chuck Key

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Originally posted by Rifleman
<br /> Chuckie asked me, "After going through <b>all</b> the submissions......which one would get your vote?" I am only able to view the winners, not all the submissions. But of those shown in the 7mm category, I like the plain slim by John Grounds and the two entries by Don Ward. All simple and in good taste. At the same time, I am puzzled by the standards used by those who voted. For example, John Grounds had another 'winner' made of metal. It shows obvious machining rings on the barrel, the two sections do not join neatly and the clip is rather large and clunky. How a winner? [?]

Hey, we agree on something! I like the pens by John Grounds too and here is some additional information to help you better understand where they come from...

http://www.firechat.com/provo5.pdf

Chuckie
(AKA John Grounds)
 

its_virgil

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Frank,
I too like the pens by Don as well as the others in the display. The pens show the interests and talents of the artist and well, not everyone like all art by all artists. Now, for the voting standards...there were none. The voters were the other turners and visitors who attended the symposium. The pen display was in the instant gallery and anyone who visited the instant gallery and wanted to could vote and, I suppose, vote as many times as they wanted. I sure thought I voted enough times to guarantee a winner :-0 ...just kidding. There were some gorgeous pens...each pen was a winner to those who voted for it and we all lost to the other voters. It was fun and BTW, I sold my corncob entry and one of my snake skins on the plane ride home.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />and the two entries by Don Ward. All simple and in good taste. At the same time, I am puzzled by the standards used by those who voted. br]
 

Rifleman1776

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Originally posted by Chuck Key
<br />Duh, next time I will just turn my monitor upsidedown instead of standing on my head[:D]

At least you got a totaly objective opinion on your question. I did not know that John Grounds and Chuck Key were the same individual. Only thing that changed was that I really don't like that Phillips head screw top. Oh, well. [:p][:)]
 

scubaman

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Originally posted by Rifleman
<br />I am only able to view the winners, not all the submissions.<br />
I wonder where you are looking? The 3 pages of pens show ALL the entries. The fact that you see Don Ward's and John Grounds' pens tells me you are seeing everything, just don't realize what you are looking at. Neither Don's nor John's pens won any awards - deserved or undeserved.

This was not a limited viewing. Everyone that attended the Rendezvous could vote, and everyone visiting the Instant Gallery at the symposium could. So these awards are not a few people's opinions, but a fairly large voting body's.
 

bgisi

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Good morning,

No ruffled feathers or hurt feelings here. I really do enjoy the dialog and the diverse perspectives. I suppose a persons choice of adjectives is no diferent than the choice of pen designs, materials and combinations: endless, loved by some and not by others. I did not intend to throw out a "challenge" to be flippant. I really am interested in peoples views on the ideal pen. I have been collecting pens for many years and most of my collection are far more conservative than anything I have made myself. There are few pens more elegant than a classic black ST. Dupont with a silky smooth cap mechanism and a nib as delicate and precise as an artists paintbrush. My entry into the "bizzare" realm of pen making was primarily economic. Although I have an appreciation for a fine piece of wood and a classic shape, I found I could create what I desired in a relatively short period of time. The more time I wanted to spend on this hobby, the more kits and materials I would need. In the interest of a cost structure that came reasonably close to my wife's expectations, I began to experiment with more complex designs. Some are good, some stink. I have my own little collection of ugly duckling pens sitting on my bench at home.

Penturning has come a long way. All the entries I saw in Provo demonstrated outstanding craftsmanship, creativity and discipline. I liked some more than others but I had an appreciation for all.

Nice job on the blackwood pen. A classic shape and color is always in style.

BTW - Mark is my Dad. He is one of the nicest, most dedicated penturners you will ever meet.

Brian Gisi
 

woodscavenger

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Welcome Brian. I hope we see more posts from you. Would you mind sharing a little more about the pen? A few more photos and explanation of your materials or techniques would be cool.
 

Tom McMillan

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Brian---It's great to have you posting here!! You and your dad do absolutely amazing work. It's beyond the scope of what I'd ever attempt---but, it is awesome to see the talent you two have!!![:)]
 

Rifleman1776

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Brian, welcome to the forum. And, I'm glad no offense was taken. Say, Hi to father Mark and invite him to join us. My comments were not meant to hurt. I only expressed what I felt when I saw the PIQ (pen-in-question). Some people believe there is beauty in Picasso paintings where a woman's nose is where her ear should be and the eyes are floating around in space. I don't. I like a woman's parts where they belong. My best creative talents [so far] are not in the workshop. I write and believe my talents express themselves best on the keyboard. The PIQ is a demonstration of what can be done. I have repeatedly said I bow to the outstanding craftsmanship in that pen. (I have said enough about what I think of the totality of the final product, won't go there again. [:)] ) And, Tim, no, you stay put. [;)]
 

wayneis

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Two things that need to be said that many here have missed are number one... entrants were asked not to make a plain jane simple kit pen, we were asked to extend our limits and make the out of the ordinary pen or out of the box as some say. Number two...Photos will never capture the the true beauty of something like turned art, this is something that many here have discussed many times. I saw the photos before I left and when I got to Provo and saw the actual pens I was quite suprised because the pens in person were so much different. To see the Gisi pen in a photo for example is quite different in person as were so many of the others. I'll also add that it would be pretty boring if all of had the same taste and there would be no need for contests would there.

All in all, I believe that we had some beautiful pens to represent the penmaking community and I was proud to be among the rank and file in attendence. I was shocked to learn that I had won anything let alone two third place entries. To recieve any votes at all from the individuals in attendence is truely an honor and I can't tell you how good it make me feel to recieve any votes for my work. Frankly, I thought that there were several pens that were winners and I had a very hard time voting as all of the entries were things of beauty.

While I am at it I would like to add that it was so nice to meet face to face so many people, It was a treat to go out to dinner a few nights and visit with a few. Now when I make a comment to some of the people here I can actually put a face to that person. To be able to meet Anthony Penchetta, Cocobolo Bill, Lucky Don, Rich, Lou, the Duke of Burl and his lovely Wife, Ryan...and so many others was something that I will not forget, it was a pleasure folks and I hope to be able to do it again sometime soon.

Wayne
 

scubaman

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Originally posted by wayneis
<br />Rich there is a comma, Ryan was another person that I met.
I know, Wayne, I know, hence the big [:D] Just couldn't help myself... silly, really, I agree
[8D][:D][8D][8D][8D]
 

JimGo

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But Paul, if they were in the Met, do you think they'd still have time for pen turning? I mean, I would think it would be really distracting to have all those people walking by, asking questions. I for one would prefer to just have my pens there.

(sorry...bad joke) [;)]
 

btboone

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Years back, I actually had the MMOA contact me to see if I wanted to put some of my titanium bike cogs in a traveling display called "Mutant Materials in Contemporary Design." I was pretty darn proud to send them some. [:I] I have a keepsake book that they produced with a cool cover of a freeform pour of thick plastic. There's a lot of neat stuff in that book.

Cool! I just found a link: www.moma.org/exhibitions/1995/mutantmaterials/ I'm in the metal section. No pic though. A lot of pens would fit right in here.
 

btboone

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Depends on the laser pointer![:D]

Thanks for the kudos Jim. I was very proud to have my stuff displayed with the museum. As I said, some of the designs used were simply awesome. It's a great place to go to get inspired for industrial design.
 

PenWorks

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OT...Congrats Bruce, that is really cool. I saw this drive shaft bike , with the gears in the rear housing, what are your thoughts.....
http://www.dynamicbicycles.com/buy/Bikes.php?prodid=47
and not to be completely OT, you could nake a matching aluminum pen, to match the bike. [:D]
 

btboone

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Wow, 8 speed internal gearing. If it weren't Shimano doing it, I would say it wouldn't fly. Shimano owns the bike gearing market and is a big reason I'm making wedding rings and pens today.
 

scalawagtoo

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Bruce, was great to see your titanium pens in the provo contest. Anyway you could use your MOMA contacts to get some of these awesome beauties in where they belong, where they will get the attention they deserve?

In my head I have a design for a 24 speed automatic transmission drivetrain, with a computer measuring the speed, force and incline and activating servos for the derailluers.
I'll build it tomorrow if I get time [:eek:)]

Go, Lance Go!
 

scalawagtoo

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Tonite i printed the photos of the winning entries of the 7mm & open classes on full page glossy paper in the highest quality our printer can print.
I want to print more "win, place, and show" entries and will take time later.

I want the people who see my "beautiful work" to see what REAL penturners do.

There was no copyright info on the post so I assume I am within my legal right.

However, when Colleen and Jerry at Penn State Industries wanted to see the works of sculpture on a pen platform I gave them both the turtlewoodworks url and the IAP link. Lucky for them because when I tried to go direct to Turtlewoodworks I was denied access.

I think that I might just put a couple copies in a manila envelope and send them to the Moma myself.
 

timdaleiden

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Paul,

If you just print them out to show some of your friends, that is one thing. If you are going to start mailing them out to people, you should ask Kurt Hertzog if that is okay.
 

btboone

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I don't have any real contacts at the MOMA. They contaced me 10 years ago for that specific display. I've moved 5 times since then, so don't have any contact info anymore. It probably can't hurt for any of us to give them some suggestions for inclusion of some of our pens.
 

JimGo

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Paul,
Tim has given you good advice with respect to the use of the pics. Under a relatively recent change in U.S. Copyright laws, just because the pics don't have copyright notices on them does not mean they are in the public domain.
 
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btboone

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I agree that it would be prudent to get permission from the pen maker as well as the photographer for use of their pen pics. They would also need to be prepaired to send away their work of art should the MOMA decide to accept their pen. I for one would happily agree to such conditions. It certainly can't hurt sales. You can't assume others are willing to give up their pens or pictures though.
 
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