Problem with Woodcraft Hart Double Twist Pen

[gcavin]

Hello - Noob here. Although I've been a hobby woodworker for years, I just started pen turning last month (lathe for a Christmas present - hooray!). I had great luck with Wall Street II's and some slim lines, but ran into a problem with Hart double twist pens. I apologize for the lengthy submission, but I think I need to carefully explain the problem before asking for guidance/help.

The kit comes with two tubes - the longer tube is for the lower blank, shorter tube for upper blank.

The twist mechanism is supposed to go in the upper tube, pressed into the finale, then screwing into the middle spacer.

Unfortunately, the twist mechanism is not long enough to press into the finale and screw into the spacer - you can do one or the other but not both.

I called Woodcraft (they were very nice) and they said they were not aware of the problem, but would send me two new twist mechanisms. Those were received and were no longer than the ones that came in the kit, so the problem was not solved. After some google searching I found that the problem had been noted on another wood turner's site in 2019.

Has anyone else experienced this problem and if so, what was the solution? Any advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[its_virgil]

Its really upsetting when instructions do not note tube lengths. The WC Hart Double twist is the Berea Hardwoods kit. Woodcraft sells Berea kits but renames them. It is the Berea Elegant American Ball Point Pen. Maybe looking at the Berea instruction will help. I've not made that kit so I cant be of help. Possibly the upper tube is too short. Check the "tube and bushing" chart and see if the tube length is wrong. Good LUck.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[jttheclockman]

Glynn, welcome to the best pen turning forum on the net. To get to your question is an easy answer. These kits maybe smaller than a cigar but work basically the same. The instructions are misleading. What you need to do is once you installed the "C" part in the lower barrel, then screw the tranny onto that and forget about it. Assemble the cap as shown. The last step is to now put the cap on the lower body and you are done. But before that you should try turning the tranny to make sure the refill goes in and out properly. To replace refill you can either unscrew the nib or that c part after you pull the cap off. Their use to be a problem with those kits when the first came out and maybe they corrected but the parts were too small to stay in the tubes and everyone was gluing them in. They should be pressure fit. Good luck

PS the tranny does not have to bottom out in the cap. It just grabs the tube anywhere. That is why you could not spin it on the bottom section. You will find over time some of the instructions on kits are not all correct and you learn what needs to be done on your own from trial and error and possibly asking here. You could actually make that pen longer if you want. by using 2 lower tubes if they are the same diameter. Not sure how it would look but that is called customizing. Many people have lengthened kits or even shortened them to make a version of what the kit is suppose to be.

 

[magpens]

According to my info, the upper tube should be 2.00" long and the lower tube should be 2.15" long. . They are not interchangeable, as you know.
I obtain those lengths from a reliable table of pen kit tube lengths that I have always found to be accurate.

I can send you that table if you wish.

I made some Harts quite a few years ago but I don't have a kit in my possession now.

But on some kits of that type, the twist mech is gripped by the upper tube only, and does not go all the way up to the finial..
Such a design is quite common. . Without making up the pen, you can check if the upper tube, when slid over the twist mech, achieves a good grip on the twist mech. . If the upper tube does make a good grip on the twist mech, then I would say you are good to go ahead with making up the pen.

 

[magpens]

@gcavin

Glynn, here is a link to the Berea instruction set for that pen kit ... https://www.bereahardwoods.com/pdf/ElegantAmerBPPen1.pdf

I see that the top end of the twist mech does indeed make contact with the finial piece through the "Brass Clip Stud", into which the finial screws.
In fact, it would seem that the "Brass Clip Stud" presses quite tightly into the top end of the twist mech.

So, with that knowledge, I would feel fairly sure that the top brass tube does not tightly grip the twist mechanism.

I hope this info helps you. . If you want me to send any further info, including the Berea instructions, or the kit tables I have, let me know.

 

[jrista]

Hello - Noob here. Although I've been a hobby woodworker for years, I just started pen turning last month (lathe for a Christmas present - hooray!). I had great luck with Wall Street II's and some slim lines, but ran into a problem with Hart double twist pens. I apologize for the lengthy submission, but I think I need to carefully explain the problem before asking for guidance/help.

The kit comes with two tubes - the longer tube is for the lower blank, shorter tube for upper blank.
View attachment 324780

The twist mechanism is supposed to go in the upper tube, pressed into the finale, then screwing into the middle spacer.

Unfortunately, the twist mechanism is not long enough to press into the finale and screw into the spacer - you can do one or the other but not both.

View attachment 324781

I called Woodcraft (they were very nice) and they said they were not aware of the problem, but would send me two new twist mechanisms. Those were received and were no longer than the ones that came in the kit, so the problem was not solved. After some google searching I found that the problem had been noted on another wood turner's site in 2019.

Has anyone else experienced this problem and if so, what was the solution? Any advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

So, you are measuring the full length of the tube. Keep in mind, the finial itself will press into the tube a ways. According to the instructions, this is part F...and, from what I can see, part F should be inserted fully into the tube. If you measure the length of part F, subtract that from the current separation of your calipers, I wonder if you will find that the twist mechanism DOES fit into the finial... Have you actually tried to assemble the pen? If not, you might want to give it a try.

 

[gcavin]

Hi Mal
Thanks for the quick reply. I will try again - maybe the problem is my error with the stud not going into the upper tube/blank far enough.
Best wishes,
Glynn

 

[magpens]

@gcavin

Glynn,
I found that I DO have some of those Hart kits. . And I also have the Woodcraft instructions.

So let me know if I can be of any help.

For assembly .... the twist mech. is a sliding fit inside the upper tube. . The finial "Brass Clip Stud" is a tight press fit into top of twist mech.

 

[gcavin]

Thanks Jrista
Yes - I was having the problem with a fully assembled pen. But I want to check the brass stud as suggested by Mal. Maybe I wasn't pressing it into the tube far enough. I'll check it out this weekend.
Best wishes to you also,
Glynn

 

[gcavin]

I'm very impressed with this site so far - thanks to you both for the helpful and quick replies.

 

[gcavin]

Its really upsetting when instructions do not note tube lengths. The WC Hart Double twist is the Berea Hardwoods kit. Woodcraft sells Berea kits but renames them. It is the Berea Elegant American Ball Point Pen. Maybe looking at the Berea instruction will help. I've not made that kit so I cant be of help. Possibly the upper tube is too short. Check the "tube and bushing" chart and see if the tube length is wrong. Good LUck.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Thanks Don - I really appreciate all the help and quick responses. Great advice.
Best wishes,
Glynn

 

[gcavin]

Glynn, welcome to the best pen turning forum on the net. To get to your question is an easy answer. These kits maybe smaller than a cigar but work basically the same. The instructions are misleading. What you need to do is once you installed the "C" part in the lower barrel, then screw the tranny onto that and forget about it. Assemble the cap as shown. The last step is to now put the cap on the lower body and you are done. But before that you should try turning the tranny to make sure the refill goes in and out properly. To replace refill you can either unscrew the nib or that c part after you pull the cap off. Their use to be a problem with those kits when the first came out and maybe they corrected but the parts were too small to stay in the tubes and everyone was gluing them in. They should be pressure fit. Good luck

PS the tranny does not have to bottom out in the cap. It just grabs the tube anywhere. That is why you could not spin it on the bottom section. You will find over time some of the instructions on kits are not all correct and you learn what needs to be done on your own from trial and error and possibly asking here. You could actually make that pen longer if you want. by using 2 lower tubes if they are the same diameter. Not sure how it would look but that is called customizing. Many people have lengthened kits or even shortened them to make a version of what the kit is suppose to be.

Thanks John,
This is very good advice and will try your guidance - I appreciate the advice to be flexible and adapt. I always believed that even experienced woodworkers still make mistakes and encounter problems, but the real craftsmen are able to overcome them (or disguise them LOL). I usually just tell the wife I'm adding "character" to the piece

 

[magpens]

Hi Mal
Thanks for the quick reply. I will try again - maybe the problem is my error with the stud not going into the upper tube/blank far enough.
Best wishes,
Glynn

@gcavin
In addition to my above statements, I have learned another fact related to your most recent post . . . I believe that the "Stud" presses, not only into the top end of the twist mech., but also seems to be a tight press fit into the top of the upper brass tube.

 

[jttheclockman]

Have no idea what Mal and Jon are interjecting now but be careful reading too much into this. I say this because Sierra pens are the same problem at times. How many times do we get questions about people telling us they can not screw the tranny onto the lower barrel. Why because when people who own the pens turn the cap portion and many times over turn it and it now loosens the tranny and over time it keeps pushing the tranny further up the cap tube until it no longer reaches the screw on portion. People have at times used locktite to keep this from happening and others just tighten the tranny using a pair of pliers like I do. This can be a future problem with this pen also because it works on the same principle. Be aware.

 

[jttheclockman]

Having never made these kits I just pulled up the instructions for them
www.woodcraft.com/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTkvMTIvMTgvMDgvMTAvMjgvMTAzLzgyODQzOC43N0I5OC5IYXJzLnBkZiJdXQ/828438.77B98.Hars.pdf?sha=1e00d75045b062a1

I now see what Mal and others are taking about clip stud. To me it does not look like it goes into the tranny but maybe meets the top of tranny when all put together to prevent tranny from being pushed any further to prevent the scenario I lad out in previous reply with Sierras. Because if it goes into that clip it would cause the tranny to go all the way to the top of the tube and from his photo you can see the tranny is not the same length as the tube. I believe that clip is just to allow that finial to be screwed into it and held in place. That is my story and sticking to it.

What I suggest is screw "D" tranny onto "C" lay the cap tube next to this at the right location as if that assembly was pressed in. Now take that stud clip and lay it also along side the tube with the top of the clip at the top of the tube. Now you can see where the clip stud should wind up. Do this and take a photo and show us. This will help other too if they run into this problem.

Again more reading and it states to insert tranny till the end is flush with the end of tube. Nothing about inserting into that clip. It has to screw into the center piece then. No questions about it. Now does it marry into that clip is says nothing about it but you will see if you lay out like I said.

Insert the Twist Mechanism (D) steel end first, into the .470" diameter end of the Finished Cap (E) and press into place until flush with the end of the barrel of the Finished Cap (E).

 

[gcavin]

Having never made these kits I just pulled up the instructions for them
www.woodcraft.com/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTkvMTIvMTgvMDgvMTAvMjgvMTAzLzgyODQzOC43N0I5OC5IYXJzLnBkZiJdXQ/828438.77B98.Hars.pdf?sha=1e00d75045b062a1

I now see what Mal and others are taking about clip stud. To me it does not look like it goes into the tranny but maybe meets the top of tranny when all put together to prevent tranny from being pushed any further to prevent the scenario I lad out in previous reply with Sierras. Because if it goes into that clip it would cause the tranny to go all the way to the top of the tube and from his photo you can see the tranny is not the same length as the tube. I believe that clip is just to allow that finial to be screwed into it and held in place. That is my story and sticking to it.

What I suggest is screw "D" tranny onto "C" lay the cap tube next to this at the right location as if that assembly was pressed in. Now take that stud clip and lay it also along side the tube with the top of the clip at the top of the tube. Now you can see where the clip stud should wind up. Do this and take a photo and show us. This will help other too if they run into this problem.

Again more reading and it states to insert tranny till the end is flush with the end of tube. Nothing about inserting into that clip. It has to screw into the center piece then. No questions about it. Now does it marry into that clip is says nothing about it but you will see if you lay out like I said.

Insert the Twist Mechanism (D) steel end first, into the .470" diameter end of the Finished Cap (E) and press into place until flush with the end of the barrel of the Finished Cap (E).

Hi John
When I get home, I'm going to try to "dry" assemble the kit minus the turned blanks and see if the problem has to do with how I assembled the top stud into the upper tube. I can always push the stud back out of the tube if necessary. Even if I fix the Hart kits I do have, I don't think I'll sell any or give any as gifts in the future because I agree with some of the comments that a pressure fit of the tranny into the stud and screwing the tranny to open and close the pen over time could cause a failure. This seems to be a basic design flaw, and I want my recipients/customers to be satisfied with the pen as long as they have it. I'll look at the data from the survey and rely on the wisdom of the members of this site to select kits that are popular (and work well).
Again - thanks for the great advice.
Glynn