Owning Up

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NittanyLion

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
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804
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State College PA
I only wish we had the whole truth. Is he really 17, a boy scout, drum major, etc? He asked for forgiveness only because he was caught and didn't want banned. I struggle with that. I believe their is still more he hasn't admitted to, even when he had the chance.....I saw it first hand when I was involved in a transaction with him. For this, I think a few months is not enough. Only the admins know the full extent of this, and I trust in them that his punishment will be appropriate.
 
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alphageek

Former Moderator
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
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5,120
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Green Bay, WI, USA.
I only wish we had the whole truth. Is he really 17, a boy scout, drum major, etc? He asked for forgiveness only because he was caught and didn't want banned. I struggle with that. I believe their is still more he hasn't admitted to, even when he had the chance.....I saw it first hand when I was involved in a transaction with him. For this, I think a few months is not enough. Only the admins know the full extent of this, and I trust in them that his punishment will be appropriate.

If you hasn't shared your transaction issues with Jeff, I suggest you do so.
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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Milford, Delaware 19963
Leroy

Haven't we all, especially as a 17 year old and most as we have gotten older. Looking at his profile he is a drum major in his high school which is a responsible position and he his active in Scouts. He blew the Scout oath and Scout laws all to h***. I am sure he feels terrible and will learn from it. We all make mistakes and those who don't learn from them end up with a miserable life or even worse in prison, or in some case dead. I think the punishment that was handed out was fair and fitted the crime. I can only wish him the be going forward. Truly forgiving someone can you a freedom you would not believe. I did it and my life was 1000 times better for it.
Tom, I forgive unconditionally because I believe unconditionally. He said he does not deserve forgiveness. He's wrong, he does.

Smitty, I would suggest that he is correct. None of us deserve forgiveness but because of grace we get it though undeserved! I hope he comes back when his time is up. I hope we can extend grace to him. That does not mean he does not pay for his actions. But once he pays, grace would be in order from those who have received grace themselves!
Well we aren't to discuss religion here so I'm not going to debate, pushed the rulls a little already.
 

jcm71

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May 5, 2011
Messages
1,662
Location
Chattanooga, TN
FWIW, he did honor his Super Bowl commitment. I am very pleased with the blanks (6) that he sent me. I'm with Smitty here. I have done so much worse in my life of which i am terribly ashamed. That being said, I am also with NittanyLion. Is he really 17? The wording of his apology, although not impossible, seems very improbable for a 17 year old. As for his punishment: I defer to the good judgment of our moderators who know the specifics.
 
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Bob Wemm

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Mar 9, 2012
Messages
1,994
Location
Kalbarri, Western Australia
First of all let me say that I accept that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I have followed this closely and have been loathe to get involved, but the more I think about it the more angry I become.

Here we have a person who deliberately set out to DEFRAUD the IAP Community, and especially the Bash Celebration. A very special month for a lot of people and a hell of a lot of work for the Bash organisers and all the contest co-ordinators.

At his own admission, he did not say that he would have stopped unless he was caught/discovered. That tells me that the only reason he has "Owned Up" is because he was found out. I sincerely doubt that he is sorry for the mess that he has caused and is saying that he is sorry only because he was caught.

There will need to be much planning in the future to stop this sort of thing happening again. There has already been "Tongue-in-cheek" comments about creating artificial memberships to get more votes in the pen contests. I doubt that the measures suggested in those comments are feasible, but I can think of a way around those restrictions, so nothing is impossible. Where to from here???

How can we believe anything this person says??

I am not a vindictive person, nor am I an angel, but I know without doubt that I have paid the consequences for my indiscretions, which have been much less than that occurring in this situation.

I feel very sad that modern society accepts that when "Caught out" you simply say SORRY and that is the end of it.

In my humble opinion the penalty should have been permanent expulsion.
BUT, like I said, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Bob.
 

toddlajoie

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Feb 6, 2010
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Feeding Hills MA
Bob, I understand your sentiment, and I was not sure I had anything to add to this conversation, as it has covered many aspects of this from many angles, but I would say that the one thing that strikes me is this.

He came on here, owned up, and took his consequences publicly. Being an online forum, nothing ties anyone to this place short of the owners/moderators. He could just as easily have cut and run, just disappearing, and that would have been the easy thing to do. I think that since the actions had such a public and noticeable affect on the auctions, what caused it would have certainly come out, but I would bet that the team would have done everything they could to protect the real identity of this person. So to me, coming here and publicly stating what he has admitted to shows that he values his ability to be a member on this forum.

There is quite a bit of psychology behind the stages of owning up to one's transgressions, and it is very common for these revelations to happen over time, so I am not bothered by the fact that he may not have come clean on EVERYTHING right away, as I'm aware of how the mind protects itself in situations like this.

In my life there have been situations where I have unconditionally forgiven people for their actions (and had the same done for me) and times when I have decided for my own interests that I had to sever ties with someone for what they have done. These were always very personal decisions based on many factors.

An online community like this is not a single person, so I think the Admin team decided well in giving a fixed punishment, and allowing him to return afterwards if that is his choice. It is up to the individual members to decide the lasting effects of his actions. Some will write him off, put him on the ignore list, never respond to him, etc. I don't think anyone can blame them for that. Some will forgive him and go on, giving him a clean slate and taking the chance that they may be burned again, maybe with a little more attention being paid to putting them in the position to be burned. I am this type of person, and I accept the fact that it is my fault if I allow myself to get burned by him in the future.

I would never tell people how to behave toward another person in a situation like this, as I understand that each person's life history affects how they react in these situations, but I would hope that the members who feel strongly about this situation and feel he should not have been able to return can find it in themselves to just leave him alone when and if he returns. His return would validate the value of this place to him (it won't be easy for him, nor should it be), but I would hate to see people constantly bringing this situation into everything he gets involved in. As a community we need to move forward.
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
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Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
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Location
Milford, Delaware 19963
I feel very sad that modern society accepts that when "Caught out" you simply say SORRY and that is the end of it.


Bob.
I forgave his transgression - that does not mean he should get off scott free with no consequences. Those who should decide on what the consequences will be have spoken on that matter.
 

low_48

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
2,176
Location
Peoria, IL, USA.
Bob, I understand your sentiment, and I was not sure I had anything to add to this conversation, as it has covered many aspects of this from many angles, but I would say that the one thing that strikes me is this.

He came on here, owned up, and took his consequences publicly. Being an online forum, nothing ties anyone to this place short of the owners/moderators. He could just as easily have cut and run, just disappearing, and that would have been the easy thing to do. I think that since the actions had such a public and noticeable affect on the auctions, what caused it would have certainly come out, but I would bet that the team would have done everything they could to protect the real identity of this person. So to me, coming here and publicly stating what he has admitted to shows that he values his ability to be a member on this forum.

There is quite a bit of psychology behind the stages of owning up to one's transgressions, and it is very common for these revelations to happen over time, so I am not bothered by the fact that he may not have come clean on EVERYTHING right away, as I'm aware of how the mind protects itself in situations like this.

In my life there have been situations where I have unconditionally forgiven people for their actions (and had the same done for me) and times when I have decided for my own interests that I had to sever ties with someone for what they have done. These were always very personal decisions based on many factors.

An online community like this is not a single person, so I think the Admin team decided well in giving a fixed punishment, and allowing him to return afterwards if that is his choice. It is up to the individual members to decide the lasting effects of his actions. Some will write him off, put him on the ignore list, never respond to him, etc. I don't think anyone can blame them for that. Some will forgive him and go on, giving him a clean slate and taking the chance that they may be burned again, maybe with a little more attention being paid to putting them in the position to be burned. I am this type of person, and I accept the fact that it is my fault if I allow myself to get burned by him in the future.

I would never tell people how to behave toward another person in a situation like this, as I understand that each person's life history affects how they react in these situations, but I would hope that the members who feel strongly about this situation and feel he should not have been able to return can find it in themselves to just leave him alone when and if he returns. His return would validate the value of this place to him (it won't be easy for him, nor should it be), but I would hate to see people constantly bringing this situation into everything he gets involved in. As a community we need to move forward.

What makes you think he will come back with the same name for us to identify him? Why would he? We know he's good at creating new names and identities.
 

JohnGreco

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
740
Location
Sewell, NJ 08080
Last night I saw an All in the Family re-run. Archie had somebody passing fake $10's in his bar, and he was able to figure out who it was. A patron, dressed in a santa suit, who had been laid off 2 years prior and was using fake $10's his uncle had given him. Archie tried to do the right thing in the spirit of the Holiday (apparently originally aired around Christmas) and let the guy go.

Then he watched the guy drive off in his brand new Cadillac.

Maybe we're too quick to forgive people we don't really know? I don't know the answer to that, but the episode hit a tone of irony with me considering what's been going on here.
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
In Memoriam
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
12,823
Location
Milford, Delaware 19963
Stuff

I remember reading a newspaper story around thirty or so years ago about a death - an older man died while panhandling where he'd panhandled for years, he had an address on him and when they contacted his home, it was a large expensive house in a high class neighborhood. He was a well thought of resident who had lived in that area for years.
 
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