Newbie finishing question

[meshel]

I'm kind of new to pen turning, and I feel that where I need to enhance my knowlege and skill the most is finishing - which I believe in pens is most of the work (obviously everything depends on the prior work).

My question is this: last night I decided to do some experimentation. I took a piece of Carob (some scrap I had), divided it to three sections, turned and sanded it nice and smooth (320).
Then on each section I applied a different finish oils - BLO, Olive oil, Friction Polish.
let it soak and dry for a while, and then applied wax and carnauba - to each section half and half, and buffed a little with a rag.

For the life of me, I cant find any difference between the three!!! is there anything wrong with me?

 

[tseger]

I'm sure not an expert on this subject, but I think where the big difference is gonna show up is how the different finishes hold up during use, over time.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by meshel
<br />I'm kind of new to pen turning, and I feel that where I need to enhance my knowlege and skill the most is finishing - which I believe in pens is most of the work (obviously everything depends on the prior work).

&lt;My question is this: last night I decided to do some experimentation. I took a piece of Carob (some scrap I had), divided it to three sections, turned and sanded it nice and smooth (320).&gt;

from what you describe I wondered what the results of your experiment were meant to prove.
Many times( based on the results of my skew) I START sanding with 320 and continue to 400 then procedeing through the nine grits of MM and finishing up with a brown paper bag sanding accoss the grain and cleaning the clank with compressed air before proceding to the next grit.
The 3 substances you applied will undoubtedly "pop" the grain and the carnauba wax will make it shiny .
The resulting"finish" is used by many for those who like the "feel" of natural wood pens but as a "durable low maintainance finish" for the owner they probably won't cut it.
Try the same"experiment" on 3 finished pens.
Carry them, use them show them to others.
If yo are satisfied with the results of that "experiment" continue on with the finishing practice you like the best.

 

[meshel]

My experiment wasn't to "prove" anything, it wasn't done to decide on pen finish either (I agree that pen finish needs to be durable and stain resistant, and these finishes - unless coated with additional sealers - aren't enough) - The question is relevant for any turned wooden item.

I was just trying to see (I am a newbie) the different effects of different finishes on the same material, I described my test to ask the question "Should there be a difference?" because it seems weird to me that three different finishes look so alike, especially since I know they change the appearance of the wood, and don't keep in natuarl state - They all have a slight yellowing and color deepening on the wood.

I agree it's not much of a question,but I'm entitled to such questions because I'm a newbie! []

 

[DCBluesman]

Moshe - No, you should not be surprised at the results of your test. Olive oil, linseed oil and shellac are all three amber in color so they will highlight (or 'pop') the grain in a similar manner. Since you are applying the same carnaauba over the three, you should get a very similar sheen when it is buffed out. Beneath the surface, however, is a whole other story. The olive oil will take months to cure. There are no drying agents in it. The BLO (boiled linseed oil, will dry quickly, but still not be cured for several weeks. The friction polish will behave similarly to the BLO. The reason that BLO dries and cures quicker is due to drying agents (typically heavy metals) that are added to raw linseed oil. The friction polish is actually shellac (typically in flake or button form) that has been dissolved in denatured alcohol (called methylated spirits in some countries) with BLO added for it's lubricating properties. In heavy use, none of these are particularly durable, however they all three have value in different forms of wood finishing.

 

[ctEaglesc]

Meshel-
I am as confused by your reply as I am with original post.
I understand the wor "finish" to be the protective coating that you put on an item to enhanced its' appearance and to protect it.
Since you applied different oils and also a friction polisosh I was under the impression you thought these were finishes.
I suppose to some extent they are though some would better than others.
Please forgive me for coming off as a smart a** if that is how you perceived my remarks, that was not my intent.
You admitted to being new to pen turning and your post lead me to believe(mistakenly) that you believed these substances were themselves suitable for finishing for pens.

 

[meshel]

Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />Meshel-
I am as confused by your reply as I am with original post.
I understand the wor "finish" to be the protective coating that you put on an item to enhanced its' appearance and to protect it.
Since you applied different oils and also a friction polisosh I was under the impression you thought these were finishes.
I suppose to some extent they are though some would better than others.
Please forgive me for coming off as a smart a** if that is how you perceived my remarks, that was not my intent.
You admitted to being new to pen turning and your post lead me to believe(mistakenly) that you believed these substances were themselves suitable for finishing for pens.

Hey, I am the newbie... no harm done whatsoever, in a forum dedicated to pens, I should have expected that people would assume I was discussing pen finishes (as in another group I participate in, just to mention friction polish or CA finish would have gotten me bitten up for being not purist...)
[8D][8D][8D]

 

[emackrell]

Originally posted by cteaglesc

Many times( based on the results of my skew) I START sanding with 320 and continue to 400 then procedeing through the nine grits of MM and finishing up with a brown paper bag sanding accoss the grain and cleaning the clank with compressed air before proceding to the next grit.

Eagle, not to hijack the thread, but why a brown paper bag? What does that do? Does it act like an even finer grade of MM, or is there a different reason to use it?

yrs in puzzlement Eileen []

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by emackrell
<br />

Originally posted by cteaglesc

Many times( based on the results of my skew) I START sanding with 320 and continue to 400 then procedeing through the nine grits of MM and finishing up with a brown paper bag sanding accoss the grain and cleaning the clank with compressed air before proceding to the next grit.

Eagle, not to hijack the thread, but why a brown paper bag? What does that do? Does it act like an even finer grade of MM, or is there a different reason to use it?

yrs in puzzlement Eileen []

A finer grit of MM is a good way of saying it.
Many turners call it "burnishing" When I finish antler I sometimes get "antler dust" on the paper bag so it must be abrasive.
Russ mentiones it in his sanding article though I have read it many times concerning turned pieces.

 

[OSCAR15]

Moshe...The bottom line here is that different people have different preferences. I don't think that there is any right or wrong here. Oils and friction polishes can shine as well as say laquers. They just will not last as long in usage.
With that said, some folks prefer these as the wood is definately more natural. Lacquers, and CA finishes give a more plastic feel to the wood, but they will last a lot longer. If I make a pen for myself, I do it to my preference. If it is for someone paying me for it, I do it the way they prefer it.

 

[DocStram]

My 2 cents worth .... and I'm a newbie, and will consider myself one for a long time to come. When I hang out here I come to learn. I read as much as I can. I listen to all the different points of view. I read stuff at other websites and books on turning. I ask questions ... lots of them. Sometimes I ask stupid questions. Sometimes my questions get misinterpreted. Other times I ask questions that are so obvious I'm later embarrassed by them. But, it's ok. Everybody has a seat at the table here.
When I'm down in my shop I'm on my own. I make the decision about what finish I'm going to use. I've tried so many different finishes it's ridiculous. Open my shop cabinet and you'll see my historical journey of pen finishes.
What finish is best?
Get it?

 

[DocStram]

Hey Meschel .... take a look at the "Deft Question" topic under Finishing. And then head to Russ Fairfield's website where you will learn a whole lot about everything.

 

[bonefish]

Has anyone heard of a finish called Slocom? (sp?)

It is used in England to finish the stocks on the high end shotguns and rifles.

From what little I know about it, it is composed of Bees wax and BLO, but I don't know the proportions or how it is mixed.

Any comments?

Bonefish

 

[EPC]

Eagle,

The other day I stumbled across your post about the paper bag "burnishing". I didn't knock it until I tried it. So last night I tried it. I did half the blank with the paper bag and I could definitely tell a difference. So for now on, after mm I will do the paper bag method.

Thanks

Originally posted by ctEaglesc
<br />

Originally posted by emackrell
<br />

Originally posted by cteaglesc

Many times( based on the results of my skew) I START sanding with 320 and continue to 400 then procedeing through the nine grits of MM and finishing up with a brown paper bag sanding accoss the grain and cleaning the clank with compressed air before proceding to the next grit.

Eagle, not to hijack the thread, but why a brown paper bag? What does that do? Does it act like an even finer grade of MM, or is there a different reason to use it?

yrs in puzzlement Eileen []

A finer grit of MM is a good way of saying it.
Many turners call it "burnishing" When I finish antler I sometimes get "antler dust" on the paper bag so it must be abrasive.
Russ mentiones it in his sanding article though I have read it many times concerning turned pieces.