New bowl turner question

[PMisiaszek]

After 15 years of turning pens, I'm penned out and would like to try some bowls. My first question (more to follow, I'm sure) is what size blank can I reasonably and safely turn on my Jet 1014 mini lathe? OK, two questions... and at what speed?

 

[Bill in Buena Park]

Others may be responding as I type this - but the size of the bowl blank depends on a few things. May be possible to get close to a 10 inch diameter bowl blank mounted if round (circle cut on bandsaw if you start from square block) and chucked on center - but placement of the tool rest, length of the tool rest (for reach), depth of the blank, etc. will also come into play. Speed will also vary based on balance of blank - the closer to round, the higher speeds you can use. For imbalanced blanks, I'd start at lowest speed that doesn't cause vibration, and start to increase once turned to round.
Safety can also depend on how you mount the blank - screw chuck, faceplate, glue/tape block, use of tailstock livecenter, etc. I'd check out some of the great YouTube videos on various bowl turning techniques first so you can see what method you'd be most comfortable starting out with.

 

[greggas]

for that size lathe you ghouls be able to get to 10" ...couple things to keep in mind...when turning large, dense wood, larger bowl blanks and out of balance prices you may want to add some weight to the legs or base if not already done. ( i.e. sand bags) to help dampen vibration.

I would also recommend bringing the tail stock up to the face face of the blanks when roughing out for added security and confidence when going at it aggressively .

have fun

 

[KenV]

Peter -- I have a 1014VS -- and suggest you look at doing a bunch of 6-8 inch bowls and 3-4 inch boxes with lids as a way to get your skills developed. Squeezing the last 1/4 inch out of the lathe is something that works better with experience.

Slow speeds are always safe, and good for developing technique. If you have a belt-changer, you can work the lower end and get comfortable with a bowl gouge. That is one of the places where a standard belt changer is better than VS. The VS model drops off in Torque fast as the motor speed gets below 50% of full motor speed. Even on lowest wheel, you will have lots more effective power (torque) with a belt changer.

Get a 3/8 inch bowl gouge --- get a lesson or two if you can -- and turn safe

 

[stonepecker]

Start small and work your way up to larger pieces.
I enjoy turning 'bud' vases and candle holders when I can.
Small dishes are also something that can be a challenge.

Take your time and let your skills grow.

 

[alankulwicki7]

I have one of those lathes and I could comfortably make 8" bowls all day on it. Anything bigger and you have to take smaller cuts on it. The more balanced the bowl blank is when you start, the easier it will be....

 

[Ted iin Michigan]

Agree 100% on the suggestion to take a look at YouTube. There are MANY good videos thee on basic bowl turning. And a few not so good. So review several. Also agree that it would be good to start smallish and work up. I'm thinking a 3 or 4-inch bowl is a nice place to start. Your lathe should be able to produce 8-inch bowls no prob.

As noted, speeds will vary - big time. The best info I got was to turn the speed up to where the lathe starts to wobble and then back off a bit. But that assumes the blank is sound. And you will more likely than not need to learn how to "twice turn" green wood.

There's an investment in tooling and stuff you'll need, too. And, of course, where the heck do you a) get the blanks, and b) dispose of all the shavings? I'm getting better at finding wood (tree services, utility crews, storm damage, etc) and we live in the country. I now have a pile of shavings on the fence line. Getting bigger every week!

Good luck! I'm loving bowls - hope you do, too.

 

[TellicoTurning]

I turn a lot of bowls and have turned a number on my 1014... though I primarily use a 1442 today. You've had good advice to start slow, when you first start the bowls with the raw blank, stay at 500 rpm until it's round, running true and smooth, then you can think about changing speed.... my lathe starts at 450 rpm and there have been times when that speed was way too fast for the blank... after some struggle and I finally get it true enough to stop the vibration, I might raise the speed to 600 or 800... rarely ever go over 800. Although I do turn pepper mills at 1500 or 1800 rpm. (I always drill them at 450)...

Best advice I can give you is get comfortable at the lower speeds and work your way up. I always use a face plate on bowls... my comfort level, also almost always use external tenons in my chucks -- again my comfort level -- I've seen turners use drive centers, screw chucks and other methods to start... my comfort is the face plate. I'll use a drive center to round a pepper mill blank or the stem piece of a set of goblets, but not a bowl blank.

If you do use a face plate, strongly suggest you use machine screws in lieu of wood screws... I've had several wood screws break from the torque pressure... I strictly use the hex head machine screws now. Also suggest you not use a screws too many times... I've also had a couple break from stress after multiple uses... I try to remember to change screws after a dozen or so uses.

 

[Mr Vic]

I disagree with going at a slow speed. I watched a demo by Stuart Mortimer and he explained how to increase the speed to the worst wobble and then got past to find the sweet spot.

Think of mounting a 4" inch 2x4 at the 1" mark and turning at 1 rpm...Cutting would be thunk....thunk....thunk.... across the roughing gouge...

Now start to speed it up...The late will start to wobble as the center of mass changes....Why because it is trying to find balance...It has the time during rotation to move side to side seeking balance..When the time it takes to seek balance and the time to complete 1 rotation are equal you will have the worst vibration.

Now increase the speed and there isn't time for the lathe to wobble one direction before it gets pulled back the other way... Keep increasing the speed...even less time to wobble.....Keep going till you find the sweet spot....Now your roughing gouge will sound more like tick..tick..tick...Instead of one cut per minute you are taking thousands....

Try it...Here's a link to Stuart Mortimer turning a bowl.... http://youtu.be/ZNHVeCUQxeY He is actually better know for his Twist Work http://youtu.be/XDD0ZQzPNt8

Another analogy would be spinning a rope with a weight on the end... You'll start with your arm making big circles and the weight pulling you around a bit....Once up too speed you will only be moving your wrist over your head...Same principle...

 

[TellicoTurning]

I disagree with going at a slow speed. I watched a demo by Stuart Mortimer and he explained how to increase the speed to the worst wobble and then got past to find the sweet spot.

Think of mounting a 4" inch 2x4 at the 1" mark and turning at 1 rpm...Cutting would be thunk....thunk....thunk.... across the roughing gouge...

Now start to speed it up...The late will start to wobble as the center of mass changes....Why because it is trying to find balance...It has the time during rotation to move side to side seeking balance..When the time it takes to seek balance and the time to complete 1 rotation are equal you will have the worst vibration.

Now increase the speed and there isn't time for the lathe to wobble one direction before it gets pulled back the other way... Keep increasing the speed...even less time to wobble.....Keep going till you find the sweet spot....Now your roughing gouge will sound more like tick..tick..tick...Instead of one cut per minute you are taking thousands....

Try it...Here's a link to Stuart Mortimer turning a bowl.... http://youtu.be/ZNHVeCUQxeY He is actually better know for his Twist Work http://youtu.be/XDD0ZQzPNt8

Another analogy would be spinning a rope with a weight on the end... You'll start with your arm making big circles and the weight pulling you around a bit....Once up too speed you will only be moving your wrist over your head...Same principle...

For a really experienced turner this may be true, but I stand with my advice to find your comfort level, then move up from there... I know that some woods cut better at higher speeds, but I've also had pieces so out of balance that no speed was safe until I got some semblance of balance on the blank...I've had pieces that shook bad enough to work the headstock lock loose..... and remember, a 1014 is pretty light weight as a lathe to put larger out of balance pieces on....

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Your lathe won't likely have tons of torque so I'd keep the bowls smallish and work up. Depends what you are turning etc

What kind of stand is it on? Sturdy I hope.

I turn mine up to where it starts shaking then turn back down.

Mr Vic's thoughts are interesting. The biggest concern I'd have is that a bowl blank flying off can literally kill you. I think slowish until round is the best bet for me.

It also makes a difference what lathe you have. A jet mini is not a robust.

 

[Ted iin Michigan]

So - Peter, has all this wonderful advice/opinion scared you to the point of inaction?

 

[Mr Vic]

I'm not advocating mounting a 50 pound chunck of wood. Try it with a blank that far fron square...Say a 2" diameter crooked limb. As with all tools if you don't feel safe then don't do it...

 

[Fay Prozora]

I just made my first bowl and I used a chucking system and the wood worm screw. It held real well and I did get a few catches but the were minor ones. I used a bowl gouge and it worked out great .I also used a scraper to smooth the bowl and that worked out great too. Right now my bowl is in bag so it will dry out. My wood is green. So I will finish the bowl after the wood is dry. I. have a mini lathe and I can turn as ten inch bowl but started out with a 6 by 6 by 2 piece of Ridgewood Yucatan. It is pretty. I started by asking questions and watching my vids. Fay

 

[PMisiaszek]

Thanks for all of the responses and advice. I have been watching the YouTube videos, and I have a set of Bill Grumbine's videos. He used to be a neighbor when we lived in PA, and I always intended to take his class. I have a Nova G3 chuck that came with the "woodworm screw" and will try both. I have no intention of going beyond 6" with this lathe, at least at this point. I can't believe all the cherry and walnut I burned at the farm, and that I just paid $35 for 4 kiln-dried walnut blanks (5" x 3"). I'll be buying a few green ones too, but I wanted to get through some basics with dry ones to get a feel for the setup and sequence of events from beginning to end. My blanks should arrive tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes.

Pete

 

[PMisiaszek]

Fay, If you're still watching this thread... I also set up a practice blank today using the woodworm screw. I snugged up the tailstock and managed to turn the blank round and into a decent first-try shape. But, when I tried to work on the bottom and removed the tail stock, the blank turned on the screw. There didn't seem to be anyway to tighten it. When I removed it, it appeared as though the wood next to the threads on the screw had shredded. Did I miss a step with the screw. I was turning poplar.

 

[Fay Prozora]

I used a drill bit the same size as the woodworm screw but not counting the threads on the screw. Then I put the woodworm screw in the chuck and then screwed the blank onto the woodworm screw. The blank should be flush with the chuck, but I could not get mine that close so there was a gap between the blank and the chuck but it held tight. You might have the hole for the wood worm screw a tad too large so it might have been loose.. I could be wrong. I'm not sure how large my drill bit was but it is as wide as the screw minus the threads. I just pretended the threads weren't there and went on from there. Now my blanks are green so that could be a factor too. Good luck with your bowl.. I just posted pictures of the two that I made. Fay

 

[TellicoTurning]

Fay, If you're still watching this thread... I also set up a practice blank today using the woodworm screw. I snugged up the tailstock and managed to turn the blank round and into a decent first-try shape. But, when I tried to work on the bottom and removed the tail stock, the blank turned on the screw. There didn't seem to be anyway to tighten it. When I removed it, it appeared as though the wood next to the threads on the screw had shredded. Did I miss a step with the screw. I was turning poplar.

Poplar is a relatively soft wood and as Fay said, your hole might have been a little larger.... I'm not certain, but I think the hole for the screw should be 3/8"... the thread collapse is one of the factors as to why I don't like the thread screw and prefer the faceplate method... just my comfort level, not any kind of iron rule.... also I don't always have a nice flush face on some of my bowl blanks as I work with logs and most often use the split face of a log as the face of my blanks... sometimes when I split the log, I have a tendency to let the chain saw travel a little and can wind up with a curved face :frown:....

If your wood appears to be a little soft or overly green, you might try drizzling a little thin CA into the hold... just be sure to wait for it to completely cure... it's difficult to take the blank of the screw if it gets glued on...DAMHIKT....

If you're doing an external tenon on the bottom for the chuck, just leave the tail stock in place until you have the tenon cut... it only needs to be about 1/4 to 3/8 long and the button where the tailstock meets the blank can be left in place.

 

[Fay Prozora]

I forgot about the tail stock. I left mine up to the bowl until I was finished with making the tenon and then did not pull it back until I was ready to take the blank off the screw. Some lathes you can put the head stock in a lock down position but mine you can't. Now I wished I had done more home work before I bought my lathe. I think locking down the head stock would have helped an old bag like me to screw the bowl blank on better... I'm fine with my lathe. Again good luck with your first bowl and stay safe... Fay

 

[PMisiaszek]

Fay, Chuck, Thanks for the very helpful tips. It would not have occurred to me to leave the tailstock in place when preparing the bottom dovetail. The problem with the "loose screw" was not the result of the wrong drill size, but I had a little trouble mounting the blank. Like Fay, I also thought the blank would snug up against the chuck, and when it didn't, I took it off and drilled deeper. In the process of "screwing around", I think I enlarged the hole. I have the Nova faceplate "ring" for mounting blanks and will try that next with a larger cedar blank. The poplar blank was too small in diameter to use it.

 

[Fay Prozora]

I don't like the face plate at all, but on one of the vids on youtube there is an instruction to fasten the face plate to a wooden one and glue that to the bowl blank. You leave it on until you are done with the bowl and then take it off and use a rubber mallet and a chisel to knock off the wooden faceplate. Of curse sand the bowl and put on the finish and such before doing that and then place the bowl on one of those flat C jaws that holds bowls so you can finish the bottom. I plan to order one of those to fit my Barracuda 2 chuck. I do hope you get a nice bowl made. Some times we just have to walk away for a little bit when some thing doesn't want to work right or the way we want. Don't give up.. I keep wanting to take my bowls out and look at them, but they will stay put until next week when I check on the drying process. Oh yes,, be surer to use wood screws in the face plate. Good luck. Fay

 

[TellicoTurning]

I don't like the face plate at all, but on one of the vids on youtube there is an instruction to fasten the face plate to a wooden one and glue that to the bowl blank. You leave it on until you are done with the bowl and then take it off and use a rubber mallet and a chisel to knock off the wooden faceplate. Of curse sand the bowl and put on the finish and such before doing that and then place the bowl on one of those flat C jaws that holds bowls so you can finish the bottom. I plan to order one of those to fit my Barracuda 2 chuck. I do hope you get a nice bowl made. Some times we just have to walk away for a little bit when some thing doesn't want to work right or the way we want. Don't give up.. I keep wanting to take my bowls out and look at them, but they will stay put until next week when I check on the drying process. Oh yes,, be surer to use wood screws in the face plate. Good luck. Fay

You should use machine screws, not wood screws in the face plate... they are harder and less likely to break... I use a hex head machine screw, #12's and about 1 1/2" long... you can use shorter and smaller, but really suggest use largest screw that will fit through the holes on the face plate and a length that will hold securely.

 

[PMisiaszek]

Chuck, Fay, Thanks. I have a Nova chuck, and their "faceplate ring" is just that, a ring with a dovetail edge that snugs up in the chuck. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks like an efficient system. As for screws, I did purchase good quality, self-tapping machine screws to use with the ring. I'll only be turning small bowls, but I'm heeding all the safety advice and warnings. The instructions that come with the ring which comes from Australia call for "10 gauge 1 1/2 inch Pozi-drive self-tapping screws with parallel threads or chisel point." Try finding them.

 

[Fay Prozora]

Great. I hope you will be successful in getting a nice bowl turned and if you do, please post a picture of it... Do a search for that video on the attaching it to the bowl blank. It is interesting... Fay P.S. My face plate calls for wood screws so it goes to show not all machines are the same. I have the Barracuda 2 chucking system and so far I love it.

 

[TellicoTurning]

Great. I hope you will be successful in getting a nice bowl turned and if you do, please post a picture of it... Do a search for that video on the attaching it to the bowl blank. It is interesting... Fay P.S. My face plate calls for wood screws so it goes to show not all machines are the same. I have the Barracuda 2 chucking system and so far I love it.

I use the Barracuda system also, but mine is the original with the tommy bars... someday I may spring for the single key... would be nice if the B-2 system is compatible with my spare jaws... On the screws, most turners use the machine screws in lieu of the wood screws... you want screws that are hardened... the wood screws can tend to be brittle... I've broken a few off in my blanks before switching... actually I've used a machine screw too long and and broken one or two of them... it's a real pain digging a broken screw out of a bowl blank.

 

[Fay Prozora]

My Barracuda doesn't have the tommy bars. It had a T- handle thing that opens and closes the jaws and the hex wrench for putting the screws in the jaws when changing them. In a day or 2 I'm going to order the C jaws for the chuck so I can finish the bottom of the bowls and then put it back in the chuck to finish up the rest of the bowls. I went to the Goodwill today and I found a nice tool rack that I can put tools on and hang in the shop and found a small scales to weigh the bowls on as they dry. I weighed them this afternoon. So next week I will weigh them again and keep doing that until they are ready to put back on the lathe. I have to go to the Dr tomorrow so will stop by the habitat store just for fun and see if they have any wood. Fay