Making Bottle Stoppers

[Drewboy22]

How do you do it?

I see the mandrel with the bushing and I see the kit:

Mandrel w/bushing

Kit

But I don't see how it connects to the Lathe. Do I need to buy something else? Am I missing something?

My lathe is a MT #1 so will that cause me issues?

Thanks,

Drew

 

[maxwell_smart007]

It gets chucked into a jacobs chuck - you'll need a jacobs chuck with an MT1 taper, and a threaded drawbar to keep it firmly in your lathe...

 

[Skie_M]

What's your spindle size?


A lathe is usually equipped with both a morse taper and a spindle (threaded).

A chuck (like that bottle stopper mandrel, which is commonly termed a "screw chuck") threads onto the spindle and then you thread your blank onto the screw in the mandrel.

If you have a #1MT, you probably have a 3/4 x 16 spindle. The Bottle Stopper chuck mandrel comes with a 1 x 8 thread, so you will need to invest in the threaded adapter.

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LA3418X.html Internal Spindle Adapter ... $9.95

You can buy just one and use it for all your needs ... or you can buy one for each item that needs it and leave them installed (with locktite if you do reverse turning).


Oh, nevermind ... wrong type of chuck!

I thought you were talking about the PSI version.

You can chuck that directly in a collet chuck of the right size, or use a drill chuck, or a 3-jaw or 4-jaw chuck if the jaws close down tight enough to grip that.

 

[KenV]

Andrew -- when I was doing a lot of turning on a little lathe I used a 3/4 by 16 threaded adapter to the 3/8 by 16 threads for bottle stoppers. As I remember PSI sold it.

I used it because the runout was a lot less than that with the use of a cheap drill chuck on a MT1 taper.

Better is to get a collet chuck (as in the kind sold by Jerry Beall or PSI etc) that threads on the 3/4 by 16 headstock threads. These collet chucks have low runout and will hold a 1/2 inch shank such as is sold by CUSA.

Have fun with bottle stoppers -- and you will be happier in the long haul using stainless steel stoppers or silicone stoppers instead of plated ones.

 

[Whaler]

You could use this adapter and stopper chuck.

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/LA3418.html

https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PK-BS1-MJ.html

 

[Dan Masshardt]

The psi screw on one is so convenient to use. It's the one to have.

The only downside is that there are some stopper inserts out there that are smaller than the base of the mandrel.

 

[Charlie_W]

Drew,

Check out Ruth Niles Stainless Steel Bottle Stoppers. They are super!
She also makes a morse taper bottle stopper mandrel.
Not sure about a #1 MT size.

I also have one like yours as well as a screw on PSI version.
Craft Supplies will have the one for the smaller diameter stoppers which they sell. It is the same style as yours.

As already said, stay away from plated stoppers. The plating will pit and peel.
Good luck!

 

[Drewboy22]

Is this one to get?https://www.pennstateind.com/store/BS1-SS6.html

 

[Charlie_W]

Depends on what size thread is on your lathe. This one is for a 1" X 8 thread.

You will need an adapter if your spindle is a different size and there is not a bottle stopper mandrel made in a size to fit your lathe.

What make and model lathe do you have?

 

[Drewboy22]

Depends on what size thread is on your lathe. This one is for a 1" X 8 thread.

You will need an adapter if your spindle is a different size and there is not a bottle stopper mandrel made in a size to fit your lathe.

What make and model lathe do you have?

I have a craftsman with a 3/4 X 16 but I have an adapter that came with my pen drilling chuck so I can use the same one.

Is that set from psi a good set?

 

[Skie_M]

It works pretty well ... very little, if any, runout. Just make sure you get that wood seated right up against the chuck to make sure it turns true.


I use the PSI's version .... for those that want one that will fit a smaller diameter stopper size, turn a small collar and use it like a bushing on the chuck mandrel.



When I finish my stopper, I glue the metal double-threaded insert into the metal stopper. I do NOT glue it into the wooden handle. This is so that the insert can be replaced as well as washed without damaging the wood.

The wood threads are reinforced with thin CA and re-cut 2 or 3 times.


I use the tap and die set from Harbor Freight. I went and got the SAE/Metric 40 piece combo ... it cost me about 25 dollars.

Don't confuse this with the double and triple thread taps you see in the group buy forums ... these are single-thread only.

 

[Drewboy22]

Thanks for the help. I will look into this morning tomorrow. Night y'all

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Good tip Skie_M on turning the extra 'bushing' for smaller stoppers.

It would be cool if psi included something like that that threaded on for the smaller stoppers.

 

[randyrls]

To join the thread; Most stoppers have 3/8" x 16 TPI threads; but a few are #10 x 24 TPI. Just one more thing to look out for!

 

[drewdin]

I have a question regarding inserting the threaded insert once the hole is drilled in the bottle stopper. For the life of me, 5 out of 10 I screw in are crooked. Then when I mount it to the lathe, its off balance like crazy and I have to turn down way more than I wanted just to get it round.

Does anyone have any tips or tricks to get the insert in straight?

I have tried using the tail stock and a mandrel once I have the hole drilled but its a little clunky.

Thanks

 

[Drewboy22]

So if I got this right...

Drill a hole in the blank and tap it
Thread onto mandrel
make shavings fly
take off mandrel
redrill to remove threads from tap
glue in insert
screw on stopper
leave wine in bottle so you can use stopper

Is that the jist of it?

 

[KenV]

So if I got this right...

Drill a hole in the blank and tap it
Thread onto mandrel
make shavings fly
take off mandrel
redrill to remove threads from tap
glue in insert
screw on stopper
leave wine in bottle so you can use stopper

Is that the jist of it?

It can be a bit easier to understand if you look at the Ruth Niles Tutorial

How to make a stopper

Ruth is a very good woodturner in addition to being a stopper seller. There is no need to replace the threads with in insert unless you FUBAR the threads. I tend to dribble a bit of thin CA (5 cps) down the threads, allow it to set well, and recut the threads.

Ruth sells a very very good MT-2 mandrel that will also fit into a chuck -- it has a straight section that is designed to be grabbed in a manner similar to a wood-worm screw. There is likely not enough clearance behind the chuck on a MT-1 lathe for the extra length though unless you have one of the larger chucks like the G-3 or bigger.

 

[Skie_M]

A drill press and a drill press vice are invaluable for getting a nice straight and fairly centered hole in your bottle stopper blank.


Do not remove threads from the bottle stopper ... you screw the stopper right into the same threads.

I glue the machine threads into the stopper's metal side rather than the wood, so I can move the wood handle from one stopper to another later.



There ARE inserts available that are supposed to make things easier. They are 1/2 inch, so you drill a 1/2 inch hole instead of the 3/8ths, and you glue the insert into the stopper blank. Then you thread it on the mandrel (the metal threads of the insert match), and you turn it as you desire .... when finished, you thread the stopper's lower section right into the same insert.

 

[Charlie_W]

So if I got this right...

Drill a hole in the blank and tap it
Thread onto mandrel
make shavings fly
take off mandrel
redrill to remove threads from tap
glue in insert
screw on stopper
leave wine in bottle so you can use stopper

Is that the jist of it?

Not quite. For most stoppers, drill, tap, turn, finish and screw on the stopper. Some choose to add epoxy to the threads and glue the stopper on permanently.
All I have used have the 3/8/16 thread only.
Some will not tap but drill so they can direct thread the blank on the mandrel.

There are some out there that use this threaded insert style where there is a separate insert threaded into the wood and then the bottle stopper threads into that piece.

Your mandrel is sized to fit certain stoppers. For example, Craft Supplies has two sizes available. The Ruth Niles Stopper is a different size from the PSI mandrel.

Decide which stoppers you will use and then purchase the proper sized mandrel or make one.
A bolt with the head cut off and placed in your headstock chuck or drill chuck will work. Just turn a spacer to fit the bolt to the correct outside diameter for the stopper.

 

[Charlie_W]

If you drill, tap and turn the face of the stopper all on the lathe while the blank is in a chuck, the metal stopper will fit tightly against your turned piece.
When drilling on the drill press and tapping the hole, you have not squared the mating surface of the wood with the drilled hole.

 

[Rockytime]

I make stoppers 3/8 X 16. I also make M8 X 1.25. These stoppers have a female M8 X 1.25 thread. There is a threaded insert which is threaded 3/8 inch on one end and M8 X 1.25 on the other. I epoxy the 3/8 into the handle. The handle can be removed from the stopper for cleaning and the threaded portion on the wood is never damaged or worn out. I can post pix this evening if so desired.

 

[Drewboy22]

I don't have a chuck or a drill press. I use one of these and drill on the lathe. The stuff that Ruth has is nice but I can not afford anything on her site.

When drilling on the drill press and tapping the hole, you have not squared the mating surface of the wood with the drilled hole.

I am drilling on the lathe so is this an issue I need to worry about?

 

[Drewboy22]

I make stoppers 3/8 X 16. I also make M8 X 1.25. These stoppers have a female M8 X 1.25 thread. There is a threaded insert which is threaded 3/8 inch on one end and M8 X 1.25 on the other. I epoxy the 3/8 into the handle. The handle can be removed from the stopper for cleaning and the threaded portion on the wood is never damaged or worn out. I can post pix this evening if so desired.

Pictures would be nice if you got them handy. I know that there are 101 ways to do the same thing, I am just trying to wrap my head around it and get a basic idea of how this new thing works.

Thanks

 

[KenV]

Andrew -- work holding is much of what wood turning is about.

I have never used that PSI drilling chuck, but if it opens enough to hold a bottle stopper blank securely, you have a prayer. If not you need to have a glue block and get it mounted to your headstock. Face plates are the way to hook up a glue block to headstock and can be manufactured, made with a tap, or made with a nylock nut epoxyed into the glue block. Thick CA glue will work for fastening a bottle stopper blank to a glue block.

Once you have the method of holding the bottle stopper blank securely for face cutting and drilling/tapping, the process gets easier.

 

[Sabaharr]

I use my Nova chuck to hold the blank ( If your pen blank chuck holds it well enough that works too) and use a forsner bit just a smidge (Technical term) larger than the stopper mandrel base to square the stopper base. Then I replace the forsner with the drill bit and drill my hole for the stopper to screw into (perfectly centered). I then mount my mandrel in the tailstock and bring it up to the stopper and turn the stopper blank in the head stock by hand to thread the stopper blank onto the mandrel. Once that's done I open the chuck jaws , remove the chuck, and swap the mandrel over to the headstock with the blank mounted on it. It is Perfectly square and the stopper base will be too.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

This whole thing is getting kind of complex. I've made dozens of stoppers just fine without perfectly facing the blank.

Although I typically do that now, I almost never tap the stopper unless it's something prone to issues like inlace. The psi stopper mandrel will cut threads in most woods if you get the right drill bit for it.

 

[mike4066]

Gwinnett Woodworkers has (IMO) some of the best turning demo/videos on YouTube. Here is a link to their bottle stopper demo. It talks about the size /shape some of the difference and how to prep / turn. Even if you don't have the same equipment you can find a way to adapt it to suit your needs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVPF1jKrIxk

 

[dogcatcher]

There is enough "slop" in the threads to take care of having to face the end of the blank. If the end of the blank is flat, it will seat flat to the top of bottle stopper.

 

[Skie_M]

There is enough "slop" in the threads to take care of having to face the end of the blank. If the end of the blank is flat, it will seat flat to the top of bottle stopper.

I am SO not a fan of that design or philosophy. If the threads are that sloppy, there's a danger of it coming loose on you! Of course, you can turn most of the stopper by bringing up the tailstock and applying pressure, which will keep the blank on the mandrel, but you have to pull it away sometime to finish it up.


I use a different bit than what is called for in the bottle stopper plans and I cut a neat and slightly undersized hole than what you would make for metal. I then run the tap and bottom it in the hole.

Without a drill press, it's a little trickier ... you need a faceplate with a glue block. First, mark your center, and bring the tailstock up close with a 60 degree live center or similar. With a piece of newspaper in between the block and the faceplate glue block (to facilitate easy removal), take a dab of heavy superglue and glue your block to the faceplate's glue block, and center your tailstock on your center mark ... use the tailstock to press the blank to the faceplate and achieve a squared surface to work with.


With tailstock still in position, face the blank close to the center point with a parting tool or cutoff tool. You can pull the tailstock away to finish the very center. Then, drill the hole on the lathe ... You can also chuck your TAP in the tailstock drill chuck and FEED THE TAP BY HAND INTO YOUR WORK. DO NOT TURN THE LATHE ON TO TAP THE WOOD. This ensures that your tapped hole and threads are perfectly aligned and straight.

Once this is done, you can reinforce your threads with thin CA ... and possibly run the tap through it a few times to make sure the threads are nice and clean.

Take a chisel and split your blank away from the glue block. The newspaper will make it pretty easy to do.


Mount up your bottle stopper chuck/mandrel in the headstock, install your bottle stopper blank, bring up the tailstock for stability, and away you go!

 

[dogcatcher]

Over the years I have made thousands, and NEVER had one come loose on me. Even a SAE nut on the threads have enough "slop" in the threads along with the bolt's "slop" will have the same amount of "slop" as the wood you thread. It is designed that way, if it was a perfect fit, one iota of a miscue would make the threaded parts not fit.

Even your perfectionist threads have "slop" in them. As to coming loose, how? the lathe turns against the threads and the bottle stopper parts when put together they are designed to be tightened and to also come back apart.

 

[Fish30114]

Over the years I have made thousands, and NEVER had one come loose on me. Even a SAE nut on the threads have enough "slop" in the threads along with the bolt's "slop" will have the same amount of "slop" as the wood you thread. It is designed that way, if it was a perfect fit, one iota of a miscue would make the threaded parts not fit.

Even your perfectionist threads have "slop" in them. As to coming loose, how? the lathe turns against the threads and the bottle stopper parts when put together they are designed to be tightened and to also come back apart.

Heck DC, I think if you changed the word 'slop' to 'tolerance' people would get what you mean and move on.

If not obvious to anyone--I totally agree with DC

 

[Rockytime]

I make stoppers 3/8 X 16. I also make M8 X 1.25. These stoppers have a female M8 X 1.25 thread. There is a threaded insert which is threaded 3/8 inch on one end and M8 X 1.25 on the other. I epoxy the 3/8 into the handle. The handle can be removed from the stopper for cleaning and the threaded portion on the wood is never damaged or worn out. I can post pix this evening if so desired.

Pictures would be nice if you got them handy. I know that there are 101 ways to do the same thing, I am just trying to wrap my head around it and get a basic idea of how this new thing works.

Thanks

Here is a photo of a M8 X 1.25 thread stopper. I cement the threads into the handle allowing the stopper to be unscrewed for cleaning rather than unscrewing the handle. To me it is risky to remove the handle for fear of wearing out the wood or plastic threads.

Some of my stopper threaded inserts are M8 X 1.25 on one end and 3/8 X 16 on the other end and work the same way. Works the same way for those who only have 3/8 X 16 mandrels.

 

[Drewboy22]

Here is a photo of a M8 X 1.25 thread stopper. I cement the threads into the handle allowing the stopper to be unscrewed for cleaning rather than unscrewing the handle. To me it is risky to remove the handle for fear of wearing out the wood or plastic threads.

Some of my stopper threaded inserts are M8 X 1.25 on one end and 3/8 X 16 on the other end and work the same way. Works the same way for those who only have 3/8 X 16 mandrels.

That pic clears it up a lot. I was not sure if the stopper had the threaded bar attached to it like the mandrel or like in the pic is a separate part.

Thanks Rocky

 

[Skie_M]

You can get stoppers that are both ways ... there are some that are sold as one piece, with the threaded rod made as part of the stopper assembly, but more often you get them as separate pieces.

 

[Bikerdad]

I use a different bit than what is called for in the bottle stopper plans and I cut a neat and slightly undersized hole than what you would make for metal. I then run the tap and bottom it in the hole.

This, I believe, points to a key problem in the instructions for tapping for many of the "bottle stopper mandrels". The instructions I got with my mandrel and tap from CSUSA said to use a 11/32" drill bit. That's a bigger bit than Starrett and others recommend to use when tapping metal. Before checking the Starrett chart just now, I had already moved down to a 21/64 (vs 22/64, i.e. 11/32), and I believe I'm going to drill my next set using a 5/16" (i.e. 20/64") bit, which is the Starrett recommended size to accompany a 3/8" tap.

 

[JimB]

I use a 5/16bit. It works great. Then tap with 3/8 x 16.