Lathe Drilling Question Ready to go back to DP

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I have the PSI dedicated chuck and a 3/4" keyless chuck. I have tried it a couple of times and continue to get run out. I'm on slowest speed on the Jet, going in 1/2" then clean, Bit is sharp, 60 degree center points are matched up perfect if tailstock spindle is locked in place. When the tailstock spindle isn't locked in place, like when 60 degree center points are not matched up and I can lift up on the tailstock 60 agree center it moves at least a 1/32". Same when the keyless chuck with a bit is in, it's perfect, but when I unlock the tailstock spindle it moves up and down 1/32". Is this what is causing the run out? You can't lock the tailstock spindle in place when drilling so, how do I stop the run out?

It seems like when I pull the bit out after going in 1/2", the bit end rubs on the end of the blank reaming it out.

 

[PenMan1]

Tim:
Depending on the lathe, NOT locking down the tail can cause lots of wobble and runout.
On my Jet 1014VSI, the tail stock must be locked down and the bit advanced with hand wheel. There is simply TOO much play in the tail.

On the Delta 46-460, there is NO play at all. BUT, I still drill with the tailstock locked, and advance the bit with the hand wheel. It is much slower, but more accurate this way.

 

[Carl Fisher]

Agreed on the Jet. I do 90% of my drilling on the lathe and the tail stock MUST be locked down or it will wobble with the blank and give you runout. The float in the tail stock is my biggest complaint about the Jet.

I've also started using a center bit to start all my blanks so I have a good starting point with the bit.

 

[KenV]

A couple of things to think about --

Drill bits do not drill round holes -- they approximate a round hole, and for most wood things that is close enough. Holes with a two flute bit are slightl oval and with a 3 flute bit tend to be triangular.

The headstock alignment and tail stock alignment say nothing about the alignment of the PSI Chuck and it's runout or alighment.

I find I have to set blanks with the tailstock in place and live center engaged. The chuck is tightened firmly with the live center engaged, live center is backed off, and there should be no movement of the center point with the blank spinning. If there is, the chuck is not holding the blank in alighment. Then I turn round between centers and remount the blank (I have come to do that pretty routinely for drilling).

My lathe needs to have pressure put on the tailstock to assure it is firmly against the back side of the ways when I lock it down. That helps provide consistency.

AND wood moves and drill bits like to follow the grain -- a few thousands is expected. I can some times hear the bit rubbing as the wood moves as it is being drilled -- it can even squeel.

 

[PenMan1]

Ken, I'm missing something. How the heck do you drill with a PSI ded chuck and a live center? I always remove the live center and replace it with a drill chuck on a MT taper dead center.

 

[Andrew_K99]

FWIW wood lathe tail stocks are not designed to be moved during use. They are intended to be locked down when in use.

Move the drill bit close to the blank and lock the tail stock, drill to the max. depth possible, turn off the lathe, retract the bit then slide the tail stock in, re-lock the tail stock, turn on the lathe and continue drilling. This will never result in a perfect hole but it is 'good enough' for pen turning.

Drilling with your tail stock loose it asking for problems IMO.

AK

 

[nativewooder]

I don't know which Jet lathe you are using but if the tailstock moves, then tighten the locking nut underneath the tailstock until there is little if any movement. If you can align the head and tailstocks, fine, but if you can't you may have to shim the tailstock for proper alignment. I always put the drill bit in the chuck inserted in the tailstock, so if there is any runout, it involves the headstock only.

 

[Tanner]

The tailstock is firmly locked down to the bed. I can't lock the tailstock spindle as I need it to crank the drill forward into the blank. When I lock the spindle which holds the keyless chuck which holds the drill bit, it lines up perfectly with the headstock 60 degree spindle. Jet 1014 variable.

 

[azamiryou]

(For everyone talking about locking down the tailstock - I think Tim's talking about the quill. It's nice and centered when it's locked down, but when not locked it has some slop.)

I usually have the tailstock quill locking lever - well, not locked, but closed. Tight enough that there's some resistance, but I can still crank it pretty easily.

If that doesn't work for you, you may be able to fashion some kind of bushing to take that slop out.

 

[PenMan1]

The tailstock is locked down. I can't lock the tailstock spindle as I need it to crank the drill forward into the blank. When I lock the spindle which holds the keyless chuck which holds the drill bit, it lines up perfectly with the headstock 60 degree spindle. Jet 1014 variable.

Tim:
While you can't REALLY lock the tailstock advance and drill with it , the lock does need to be tighted enough so that the advance can't move up and down. With the 1014VSI the "dado" in the advance screw is considerably bigger that the advance lock. If you tighten the advance lock so that is "just barely" some resistance on the handwheel, it will help reduce a little of the "slop:.

 

[Tanner]

"If you tighten the advance lock so that is "just barely" some resistance on the handwheel, it will help reduce a little of the slop"

I'll give that a shot. Never had this issue with my Delta drill press and the PH blank vice. I just moved and had to move my stuff into a kids playhouse where I've lost some space. So, the drill press had to be put in storage. I thought drilling on the lathe would save on space but I guess it doesn't save on aggravation.

 

[dansills]

Tim:
Depending on the lathe, NOT locking down the tail can cause lots of wobble and runout.
On my Jet 1014VSI, the tail stock must be locked down and the bit advanced with hand wheel. There is simply TOO much play in the tail.

On the Delta 46-460, there is NO play at all. BUT, I still drill with the tailstock locked, and advance the bit with the hand wheel. It is much slower, but more accurate this way.

are you suggesting that on the Delta lathe there is no slop in the tailstock? i am going to order one if so ... i am so sick of trying to align headstock and tailstock

 

[PenMan1]

Tim:
Depending on the lathe, NOT locking down the tail can cause lots of wobble and runout.
On my Jet 1014VSI, the tail stock must be locked down and the bit advanced with hand wheel. There is simply TOO much play in the tail.

On the Delta 46-460, there is NO play at all. BUT, I still drill with the tailstock locked, and advance the bit with the hand wheel. It is much slower, but more accurate this way.

are you suggesting that on the Delta lathe there is no slop in the tailstock? i am going to order one if so ... i am so sick of trying to align headstock and tailstock

There is NO slop in my 46-460. In fact, it is so tight that it requires both hands to move the tail stock. unless the tailstock locking is EXACTLY vertical, the tail stock will not move, AT ALL. This is GREAT for turning, but sometimes just a tiny bit of "wiggle room" makes drilling easier. For that reason, my Jet 1014VSI is a dedicated drilling station. THERE'S PLENTY OF WIGGLE with that OLD lathe, and you really have to "crank down" on both the advance screw and the tail stock lock to get them to stay in place. That's not because the Jet is defective, just worn out.

 

[KenV]

Ken, I'm missing something. How the heck do you drill with a PSI ded chuck and a live center? I always remove the live center and replace it with a drill chuck on a MT taper dead center.

I do not drill with it -- But I do use the live center in the tailstock to assure the cantilever end of the blank is positioned where I want it and then tighten the chuck jaws. After snugging the jaws on the blank, if the blank is not rock solid in the "rough", then pre-rounding will generally provide a more stable mounting.

If the blank is not rotating with the center point where you want to drill, it will always have off set or more likely an oversized hole.


AFTER assuring that the center is indeed at center and stable, then exchange the live center for the drill bits.

 

[Lenny]

And don't forget to steady the chuck with your left hand while you advance the drill with your right on the handwheel. Fwiw

 

[Tanner]

Went out and bought a Delta 46-460 and a stand. That thing is smooth. Unfortunately, the same thing happened. Ream out. Drill bit goes in smooth but on the way out it starts to slightly wander and I don't like that the tube is so loose in the hole. I purchased a pen blank 15/32" bit at Woodcraft as well. I slowly ran the bit up to the blank being held by a pen blank drilling chuck and the point made a 1/8" circle on the end of the blank. This tells me that it's still not centered. The keyless chuck is a 3/4" one, is that too big? I put a 60 degree center on the headstock and it matches up perfectly with the drill bit. Could the pen blank drilling chuck be off? I tighten the blank securely into the chuck with two corners in those grooves.

 

[Tanner]

My Paul Huffman vice and Delta drill press is looking better all the time. Just can't get a nice perfect hole in a blank on the lathe. I even put my Barracuda Lathe Chuck in the headstock...same thing, slightly reamed out hole. Tube fits too loose. At least 1/32" gap all the way around the tube.

 

[mwoolley]

I am fairly new to this and maybe I missed it but what is the advantage to drilling on the lathe vs a drill press?

Mark

 

[PenMan1]

Gosh, Tim. I don't know what the heck is going on. You've changed the lathe, the chuck and the drill bit. The only other thing left to change is the drill chuck. I've never seen an "off center" drill chuck, but I sure it could happen.

Just curious, what speed are you using for drilling? On the Jet, I use 500 rpms, and the Delta, 250 Rpms. I find the slower the drill speed, the more accurate the hole. Additionally, I drill to the limit of the tailstock, turn off the lathe, retract the bit, move up the tailstock, reinsert the bit and repeat the process.

I, too, have a pretty nice drill press, set up accurately with a Huffman drilling vise. Even with this "tweaked" set up, my lathe drills are considerable more accurate. I don't know what's going on with yours, but 1/32 is more runout that I'd want, too.

 

[PenMan1]

Hey, Tim. If you have a centering bit, try starting the hole with the centering bit, JUST TO MAKE SURE that the bit is starting into the hole straight. If the hole starts wrong, the problem just compounds the problems.

 

[Andrew_K99]

Went out and bought a Delta 46-460 and a stand. That thing is smooth. Unfortunately, the same thing happened. Ream out. Drill bit goes in smooth but on the way out it starts to slightly wander and I don't like that the tube is so loose in the hole. I purchased a pen blank 15/32" bit at Woodcraft as well. I slowly ran the bit up to the blank being held by a pen blank drilling chuck and the point made a 1/8" circle on the end of the blank. This tells me that it's still not centered. The keyless chuck is a 3/4" one, is that too big? I put a 60 degree center on the headstock and it matches up perfectly with the drill bit. Could the pen blank drilling chuck be off? I tighten the blank securely into the chuck with two corners in those grooves.

Lets rule a few things out ...

Remove the pen blank chuck and put a dead center in the head stock. Replace the drill bit with a countersink bit (or similar bit with a point). Advance the quill so the tips are almost touching. Does everything line up?

Reinstall the pen blank chuck and remove the drill chuck, install a live center in the tail stock. Mount a short, round blank in the chuck, not going past the jaws (you could also mount the countersink bit used above). Advance the quill so the tips are almost touching, rotate the drill chuck by hand. Does everything line up?

As a double check remove both the drill chuck and pen blank chuck and install both live and dead centers in the lathe. Advance the quill so the tips are almost touching. These should line up, although it isn't abnormal to have to adjust this slightly.

We could get into using a dial indicator to check everything but the above should rule out the problem (hopefully).

AK

 

[brownsfn2]

I don't think I saw anyone mention this but I was having problems drilling on the lathe until someone mentioned facing or squaring the end to make sure the bit enter at the same time on both cutting angles. I also use a centering bit. With both of those in place I have not had problems again.

 

[Tanner]

I am fairly new to this and maybe I missed it but what is the advantage to drilling on the lathe vs a drill press?

Mark

For me it's just now I've moved to a small playhouse and was trying to save room by drilling on the lathe.

 

[Tanner]

Gosh, Tim. I don't know what the heck is going on. You've changed the lathe, the chuck and the drill bit. The only other thing left to change is the drill chuck. I've never seen an "off center" drill chuck, but I sure it could happen.

Just curious, what speed are you using for drilling? On the Jet, I use 500 rpms, and the Delta, 250 Rpms. I find the slower the drill speed, the more accurate the hole. Additionally, I drill to the limit of the tailstock, turn off the lathe, retract the bit, move up the tailstock, reinsert the bit and repeat the process.

I, too, have a pretty nice drill press, set up accurately with a Huffman drilling vise. Even with this "tweaked" set up, my lathe drills are considerable more accurate. I don't know what's going on with yours, but 1/32 is more runout that I'd want, too.

I moved the belt on the delta to the middle which at slowest is 600.

 

[Tanner]

Hey, Tim. If you have a centering bit, try starting the hole with the centering bit, JUST TO MAKE SURE that the bit is starting into the hole straight. If the hole starts wrong, the problem just compounds the problems.

I'll run to Harbor Freight and get some centering bits today and that a shot too. Thanks.

 

[Tanner]

I don't think I saw anyone mention this but I was having problems drilling on the lathe until someone mentioned facing or squaring the end to make sure the bit enter at the same time on both cutting angles. I also use a centering bit. With both of those in place I have not had problems again.

I have a nice 12" Delta Disk Sander so I'll square the ends up before hitting it with a centering bit, then I'll drill in and stop the lathe when the bit is in and pull it out to clean then push it back in and start it when its inside the hole. I will keep trying everything until I get a nice clean hole to put the brass tube in.

 

[PenMan1]

I am fairly new to this and maybe I missed it but what is the advantage to drilling on the lathe vs a drill press?

Mark

I don't think I saw anyone mention this but I was having problems drilling on the lathe until someone mentioned facing or squaring the end to make sure the bit enter at the same time on both cutting angles. I also use a centering bit. With both of those in place I have not had problems again.

Good point, Ron. The PSI dedicated drilling chuck does help you to become lazy. There is enough bite that you don't really have to put the end of the blank flush against the back plate of the chuck. Since you don't "really" HAVE TO square the back end, it is also tempting not to square the front edge either.

Not squaring the edges could easily account for 1/32 run out.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm really surprised you get run-out, tailstock locked or not.
Wobble, yes with the tailstock not locked.
You must lock the tailstock (not the quill).
I drilled several long holes on the lathe (Grizzly G0632) and did them at about 450 RPM with no problem. Try a little faster speed.
My practice is to bring the quill all the way back into the tailstock (not far enough to kick it out for removal), slide the works up to the blank, tighten tailstock to bed, center everything, tighten the chuck, turn on power and start advancing the bit/quill with the crank.
What I was doing required a full 3" hole. I just backed out slightly to clear some of the chips.
Not wanting to be critical, but it is really a simple operation. Do practice on scrap to get your routine down pat.

 

[Tanner]

I do lock the tailstock but not the quill. I tighten the quill slightly so it can still move but not loose. With the new Delta though there is no slop in the quill even when it's not tightened in place. I've been backing out all the way to clear debris with lathe running. That seams to be when things get a little off. I'll stop the bit inside, back out, clean, roll bit back in hole then start the lathe when deep inside. I'll also square the edges and ends on the disk sander before drilling.

 

[johncrane]

Tim!
I'm thinking your drill chuck or the M/T holding the chuck could be out. Check it in the head stock for run out,also roll your drill bit on the lathe bed or some think flat it may be out of round.

 

[PenMan1]

Tim!
I'm thinking your drill chuck or the M/T holding the chuck could be out. Check it in the head stock for run out,also roll your drill bit on the lathe bed or some think flat it may be out of round.

John:
If this IS the case (and I'm beginning to believe it is) it would almost HAVE TO BE the drill chuck as he's having the exact same problem on two different lathes that both line up with 60 degree center in the tail.

 

[azamiryou]

I'll also square the edges and ends on the disk sander before drilling.

For really square, square them (or touch them up) on the lathe, after securely mounting the blank, immediately before the drilling operation.

 

[Tanner]

Tim!
I'm thinking your drill chuck or the M/T holding the chuck could be out. Check it in the head stock for run out,also roll your drill bit on the lathe bed or some think flat it may be out of round.

John:
If this IS the case (and I'm beginning to believe it is) it would almost HAVE TO BE the drill chuck as he's having the exact same problem on two different lathes that both line up with 60 degree center in the tail.

I have run the drill chuck with a 15/32" bit that has the sharp point at the end and it matches up perfectly with a 60 degree center mounted in the headstock. It's a big drill chuck at 3/4". I was wondering if that was too big. I'm leaning towards the blank chuck being off or just that I don't square up the blank edges or the ends.

I'll be giving all the fixes a shot tonight.

 

[PenMan1]

Tim, it is easy enough to check the chuck AND they do get out of whack sometimes.
The simpliest way to check it is to open the chuck until the jaws go to the outside ring of the back plate. Then, count the gear teeth extending past the base of the chuck.

If the number of teeth on the left side is NOT the same number as on the right side, the dedicated chuck is off center.

I took mine apart once for cleaning. It took forever to get it realigned.

Now, rather that disassembling it for cleaning, I spray the chuck with compressed air, then drop the chuck into a Glad Lock container filled with WD40, until it's next use.

 

[Russianwolf]

do you have a collet chuck? If so, turn the blank round between centers and put it in the collet chuck and check how the drilling goes. I used to use a self centering chuck for drilling, but haven't looked back since getting the collet chuck and some center bits.

 

[Tanner]

Yeah, the collet chuck held a round blank nicely. Perfectly centered. Then after I squared up all sides of a square blank, it was held true by the blank chuck. Before I squared it up I noticed I could slip a piece of paper between the V grove and the blank in some areas of the blank chuck. The drill bit even made a 1/16" circle at the end of the blank when I creeped the bit forward. After squaring all sides, I could no longer slip a piece of paper between the V grove and blank on the ends. The bit made a perfect dot at the end of the blank as I creeped it up.

I have to tell you that blank chuck is finicky if you have to square up a blank before clamping it in. The old way I just threw the blank in the Paul Huffman vice and drilled away. Maybe we can talk Paul into making a vice for the headstock.

Thanks everyone for the tips. It looks like from now on I have to:

Square up the blank, all sides and ends.
Clamp it in the blank chuck very tight.
Drill in 1/2" increments, turning the lathe off each 1/2" with drill bit in the blank.
Back out bit and clean, turn on lathe after bit is inserted back into the blank.
When drilling hold one hand on the keyless drill bit chuck to keep it steady.

Or, round the square blanks to 3/4" and use a collet chuck.

Or, run an extension cord to the hot (Phoenix), no lights, cramped storage garage and continue drilling with the drill press and PH vice.

Or, only order round blanks.

Or, stop being so anal about needing a perfect, no slop at all hole for the brass tubes.

 

[Russianwolf]

yup, I do mine in batches.

I take all the non round blanks I have on hand and set up the drill press with the center bit. Truestone, Plastics and woods, makes no nevermind. I center drill them all.

Then I set up the lathe and turn them all round between centers. This is where I have a BIG advantage. I have a carbide cutter in a duplicator attachment. I set it to 3/4s and turn the plastics in one pass. The Woods I step down in a couple cuts. Takes me about a minute per blank even with change out times.

Then they all sit in a box ready to go when I need them. They are ready to fit in the collet chuck and drill as close to perfect as they can. (woods can still wander some due to the nature of the beast.

You could use a hand drill for the center bit in a pinch.