Instabond Pen CA - You may already know about it...

[mmayo]

I just started using Instabond Premium Pen CA finishing glue (40 cps) and love it. It has 8x the viscosity of thin CA (5 cps), but is much less than medium CA (500 cps).

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/15/6238/Insta-Bond-Premium-CA-Pen-Finish

I have been applying 25 coats of thin CA glue changing the direction after 12 coats with great results. This technique forces one have to be patient so I thought that was a good thing for my character. This new (to me) glue is great and I achieved the same smooth, glossy finish with only 4 thin coats and 8 coats of the Pen CA glue. The lines that need to be smoothed were reduced so sanding was also reduced. I used it on bocote which has some grain to fill and it did. It survived light sprays of accelerator in between each coat without problems. I guess I will have to find a new technique to work on my patience because this is fast and produces a high quality finish.

If you know this already, sorry for the post, if not TRY IT.

 

[edstreet]

Insta-bond accelerator also contains acetone which is *VERY* bad for usage.

 

[Ted iin Michigan]

Uh .... No pics, didn't happen.

 

[PenPal]

Mark when I changed over from my VL100 to the VL150 I installed an extra fan unit that exhausts through my workshop tiled roof to atmosphere its a second had air con duct fan that belts out heaps of air with a low wattage fan. At the lathe there is a dedicated vac system at the bed as well. This allows me CA free working that I enjoy thought it might help to show you my answer.

Peter.

 

[mmayo]

Ok I was being lazy

Uh .... No pics, didn't happen.

Ted, you get cellphone photos for now as proof.

I will post photos as proof
I will post photos as proof
"
"
"

 

[mmayo]

Insta-bond accelerator also contains acetone which is *VERY* bad for usage.

I used Stick Fast accelerator, but it probably has acetone too. It works.

I use two fans in my garage workshop to circulate air and keep those fumes away from my respiratory system. If I do not sense those nasty CA fumes with my somewhat sensitive nose I feel OK. I have tried various alternatives to CA and have yet to get what I want in a finish. CA and BLO is great for my shaving sets and cedar plugs. I guess it is a personal choice that each person makes when they make their pens.

 

[edstreet]

Correct, stick-fast does contain acetone as well. Both equally bad.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Stickfast accelerator works great for me. Never a problem after using for 2 years.

 

[Monty]

Correct, stick-fast does contain acetone as well. Both equally bad.

I've always said you can ask 100 penturners how to do a good CA finish and get 110 different answers. :biggrin::biggrin:
I, like Dan, use an acetone based accelerator (not Stickfast) with no problems so I wouldn't say an acetone based accelerator is "bad" for a CA finish.

 

[edstreet]

When you look at and understand the how and what of acetone then it becomes very obvious.

 

[penmaker1967]

I use stickfast accelerator myself and not had any problems

 

[mbroberg]

Theory and reality do not always agree. If it works for you then it is not bad, despite what the data may indicate. Thanks for sharing your experience with that product Mark.

 

[edstreet]

Fortunately what I spoke of is chemistry and not theory and this is not the thread to bring those up and it was failure on my part to even go there.

 

[mmayo]

Ed

I appreciate many of the diverse opinions I read here including yours. I did not mean to discount your advice but was confused if the bad chemistry affects my pen or my body. I worked for 20 years as a researcher in craniofacial molecular biology where I was exposed to numerous very bad solvents, carcinogens like picric acid and needed to use radioactive reagents at times. Acetone was low on my list of bad reagents, very low. I protected myself as well as possible then and do so now. If it affects the final quality of my pens I have yet to see it. I have made less than 300 pens and some folks who post here make that many monthly so my experience might be limited. So far as I can tell, if I do not apply more than a slight wiff of accelerant I see no ill effects on the pen.

Please clarify your concern. My aim is not to start a verbal war about this method vs than method which is pointless.

 

[Monty]

When you look at and understand the how and what of acetone then it becomes very obvious.

Please clarify. Are you refering to the fact that acetone dissolves CA?

 

[mmayo]

It seems that acetone dissolves CA and makes it more brittle from what I have been told in PMs.

My question is if you do not use accelerator, do you just wait between coats or do you reapply the second coat right away. I like CA and will continue using it. If there is a better fairly rapid method USING CA I am all eyes.

 

[Dale Lynch]

Used to wash my hands in acetone when I worked in a fiberglass factory.Not daily but fairly often. Never gave any thought to it.Worked there 2 1/2yrs no ill affects then or now12yrs later.

 

[Codingo]

When you look at and understand the how and what of acetone then it becomes very obvious.

Such condescending language. This would have come off a lot better if you just provided sources and let them speak for themselves.

 

[jsolie]

I'm also curious as to what the deal is with acetone. I seem to recall that my mom, my wife and a few other people I know, would use this to remove fingernail polish.

I just checked the MSDS for the debonder that I have, 99-100% acetone. And, oddly, a number of the accelerators have acetone as a major ingredient. Perhaps someone with a chemical engineering background could expound to us non-chemical engineers why a substance that can dissolve cured CA will kickstart the curing process. It just seems odd to me that acetone can both dissolve cured CA and can accelerate the curing process for uncured CA.

 

[edstreet]

CA is polymerized by a PH shift. All CA on the market has a weak acid that keeps it in liquid form. When the PH balance shifts towards neutral it causes the polymerization to begin, the more rapid the shift the hotter the process is and the more brittle the end result is.

This is why CA will smoke and fume when you use some towels. The alkaline levels in shop towels reacts harshly with the CA and causes rapid polymerization. The 'sweet spot' on CA activation is a slower cure that causes little to no heat and therefore more flexible and less brittle bond also using agents that does not inhibit the cure process. Also helps greatly if you are using a surface insensitive and low-bloom type of CA.

More reading on the subject can be found here.
http://www.chenso.com/instant_adhesives.pdf
Tech Tips - Good to Know About Superglue


Hope this helps.

 

[Monty]

It seems that acetone dissolves CA and makes it more brittle from what I have been told in PMs.

My question is if you do not use accelerator, do you just wait between coats or do you reapply the second coat right away. I like CA and will continue using it. If there is a better fairly rapid method USING CA I am all eyes.

I'm also curious as to what the deal is with acetone. I seem to recall that my mom, my wife and a few other people I know, would use this to remove fingernail polish.

I just checked the MSDS for the debonder that I have, 99-100% acetone. And, oddly, a number of the accelerators have acetone as a major ingredient. Perhaps someone with a chemical engineering background could expound to us non-chemical engineers why a substance that can dissolve cured CA will kickstart the curing process. It just seems odd to me that acetone can both dissolve cured CA and can accelerate the curing process for uncured CA.

I have been using thin CA and acetone based accelerator for over 8 years and so far I've never experienced any of the problems, such as white spots or cracking, that others have experienced. My personal opinion is that these problems are caused by using too much CA and/or accelerator. In the beginning, I did experience some "rough" curing of the CA when I used acetone based accelerator that was in a pump style dispenser. Once I switched to a refillable pressureizeable spray can like this, my problem went away. I attribute the success to the fact that the droplets are finer and I use less accelerator and I use no more than 3-4 coats of thin CA.
My method is to apply a coat of CA using a folded blue Scott shop towel to the blank, let spin a minute or so to dry and then repeat. As more coats are added, it take a little longer for the CA to cure. After I've applied the third or fourth coat of CA and I'm satisfied with the appearance of the CA (looks smooth), I'll hold the can of CA about 12-15 inches from the blank and apply a short burst (about as quickly as I can depress the nozzle and then release it) of CA to "set" the surface of the CA. I will then wait about a minute before I remove the blank and then set it aside to complete the polymerization process.
As to what is best to apply the CA with, I've tried numerous brands of towels and found the blue Scott towels to work best for me (when Lowe's switched from selling the Scott brand to another brand, the CA began to smoke and polymerize on contact with the towel). You may find another towel or item will work for you.
Again, this is what I've found works best for me in my shop, YMMV and I will not debate with you that your method is better (it may be for you in your shop).
What I'm trying to say here is that there is no one method that is the best/only method to use. What I described above is what I've worked out and gives me the results I like in my shop. Experiment. Try several methods and combinations of methods and see what will give you the finish for you in your shop.