Inserts and bands

[tipusnr]

I have been watching the laminated bands, such as mike l uses, for awhile now. Also the "oops" bands and others. Now I think I will finally ask.

What procedure to you use to cut and glue up these slim bands? Do you stack the blanks to ensure the same angle? Are they cut by hand or on the band saw? What sanding is needed to ensure a clean mating edge (especially when cut on the diagonal)?

As I've expressed elsewhere I have plenty of ideas on how to do it but would like to know how it's really being done (apparantly successfully).

 

[Bev Polmanteer]

I'm with you Tip, Will someone give us a lesson on inserting bands? Please?

 

[daledut]

While I cannot say how Mike does his, I will tell you how I do similar things.

First let me distinguish a few different names. There are true oops bands that are done to fix a problem, There are custom bands that are done on purpose, and then there are laminated or segmented blanks.

First the custom bands. They end up looking the same whether they are opps or on purpose but the method is different.
A planned band like these

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Are glued up as part of the blank. I currently cut mine on a band saw, but have also used a hand razor saw and a table saw. Unless I have a bobble (technical term) in the cut, I don't sand. I find that PU glue works good for all wood blanks, but I like CA for corian/wood combos. I cut the pieces, glue them up and clamp them. Than I drill them as one piece.
If it is an oops band to cover a blowout or something. I part off the damaged area on the lathe. Than I cut a section to replace it and drill it and square the ends. The glue it onto the brass tube that you just cleaned off and turn it to match the rest of the barrel.

for laminations and segmented blanks, there are 2 methods I have used. For laminations like this.


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I did it in steps. Cut the original maple blank in half. Then cut it diaginally and cut a slice of mahogany to glue in. glue and clamp the 2 halves back together with the contrasting wood in between. You have to use a clamp or jig of some sort to keep the halves from sliding length wise since they are cut on an angle. And use a clamp to put pressure to the sides.
I then took the resulting glue up and cut it diaginally again and put another pice in just like the first. On this on I also drilled and put a dowel in but that was a little over kill.

On a segmented blank like the top on here


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I took a half blank of oak and a half blank of mahogany and stacked them together and taped them with masking tape. I then drew the wedge shape I wanted and cut it on the band saw. Cutting with them stacked resulted in matching parts that I then swapped and glued together.
In this one I added a thin silver line in the "V". It is hard to see in the photo, but it is a silver plastic party plate that I cut strips out of and simple sandwiched between the "V" pieces.
This design requires only one clamp on the ends since the "V" shape hold everything in alignment while the glue dries.
Sorry this was so long and I hope it helps.

 

[patrick_1853]

I think a full fledged article is in order on this subject [][][] ...pretty please...

Patrick

 

[daledut]

Patrick,
Please don't take this wrong, but I have a couple of observations and questions about the desire for articles. I am willing to help and will even consider doing a simple article on this subject, but I am curious about some things.

In fact I am not really aiming this at you, but rather to the general population that wants a how-to article on everything.

When I started there were no step by step articles and I learned via the forum format. Someone would explain how they did something (like I just did) and I would try it out. This does lead to more failures than having step by step instructions, but experimentation is part of the fun for me. This also give the confidence to try things that on your own before you even know that someone else has done it.

I almost feel that, by having a how-to for everything, many are losing out on the real fun of trying new things.

Again, I am not mad or anything like that... see I am smiling [] I am just curious if the requests are coming from newer turners or from those who do not see themselves inovating.

Here is my other dilema with doing an article for this forum. I was considering doing one on this subject for a magazine. The magazine in question requires first publishing rights. Which means if I post something here, I can't send it to the magazine. If I send it to the magazine it could be months before I am alowed to post it here.

I feel kind of selfish if I reserve my input for a magazine, but also feel that it could reach a wider audience.

Patrick and others, please give me feed back on this issue. I really do want to know and I have a desire to do as much as I can to help others push their abilities.

 

[paleydp]

Another observation along the same lines . . . It seems that lately, noone is willing to do any research - like reading FAQs, using the fantastic search function we've been provided (for both here and yahoo), or hitting Google for articles or websites with great info. So many of the simple questions have been answered and discussed many, many times. If I'm the only one thinking this, please let me know.

 

[Bev Polmanteer]

Dale, you have some great points there. I have only been turning pens since March of this year. It amazes me to see all the different things people do to make such wonderful pens. I guess my creativity is lacking! I enjoy your sharing information with us and it has sparked some ideas of my own so I guess it is working. Magazine articles are ok but you are helping us to use our noggins and come up with our own creations. Thanks so much.

 

[daledut]

Bev,
I just looked around your website a little, and I don't think you are telling the whole truth []
I saw several "outside the box" creations, I would say you are doing just fine. The intarsia is absolutely awsome.
I think many newer turners are like I was when I started. I was anxious to try everything that I saw someone else doing. We all have to learn to pace ourselves. The way I look at it is that I will be doing this for the rest of my life. So there is no need to rush it.
Try one thing until you get it good, then try something else.
This is one endevour where it is okay to re-invent the wheel.
When I first started I did not even know there were forums out there. I had looked at a few pens on websites and most of the slimlines had these narrow center bands and large upper and lower bodies. I did not care for the look so I made the second pen I ever made without a center band. I thought I had come up with something that no one else ever thought of.
Well needless to say I since have found that it had been done thousands of times before I tried it. But that did not diminish the benefit that I got from doing it myself from scratch.
Sorry to be so long winded, but like I said before I almost would rather do one off, experiments instead of mass producing pens. Discovery is more than half the fun.
I am still constantly amazed at the talent on display on all these forums. There really is room for everyone.

 

[mike_l]

Back to Tip's original question. First I want to say thanks for complimenting my pens. [:I] I feel honored to be even noticed in this group of talented individuals.

A quick "how to."

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The blank was first cut on the mitre saw at 45 degrees. The cut is on the upper half of the blank. I used thick CA glue to glue in a sliver of cocobola. The thickness of the insert was done by eye using the same mitre saw. (I little frightening to say the least. A bandsaw, if I had one, would have been a much better tool for the job.) The insert needs to be a bit larger (wider) than the blank. The hard part is making sure the blank stays lined up top and bottom with the insert separating the two. CA glue does not cure nearly fast enough for me. A touch of accelerator is in order here.
At this point you have a whole blank again and it time now to cut it for drilling for the brass tubes.
Proceed as you normally would for making your pens.
If this leaves any unanswered questions, please feel free to ask. If you do some experimenting let us know how it came out. (good or bad)
Hope this helps.[]

That all being said, please don't take my method as the best or only way. I saw a pen and decided to copy it. This is the only way I could figure, with my limited intelligence, to accomplish this.

Mike L.

 

[Bev Polmanteer]

Thanks Dale, You are too kind! I really worked on this one and thought I'd show you. It is Cocobolo and Bethlehem Olive. I made the cuts freehand on the scroll saw and they came out pretty good. Sure is fun once we get into experimenting! Thanks for your help.

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[William Young]

WOW !! Bev;
That is a beautifull pen. Great work. What kit is used in that one?
W.Y.

 

[daledut]

Bev,
That Cigar pen is nice. Is it an optical ilusion or is it bent in the middle.
I neglected to take a photo of it, but I made a similar design for a neighbor of mine. He is a prominent lawyer in my area and we own adjacent property that is all wooded. He wanted a pen made from our local wood, so I combined Oak and Walnut that I harvested myself. It was a great hit.

Keep it up now that you started.

 

[Scott]

Articles and such,

Well, I think of articles as fuel for the fire! And I hope that no one here believes that if there is an article on the subject, that it is the difinitive authority on the subject! We are an education oriented website. And articles by those who do a good job of penturning is what we want! They get the creative juices flowing! I like step-by-step instructions because I often find a method that is used by somebody, and I can use that method to accomplish something else!

I think that trying new things and then reporting back on your findings is essential to this site. But I also encourage people to write articles for the magazines. It is the best way to bring more people to this great hobby! And we really like to reprint, with permission, the articles that come out in the magazines!

So keep writing! And remember that nobody is so good that we can't learn from their mistakes!

Scott.

 

[daledut]

Very well said Scott. If we learn from our mistakes.... I should soon be the smartest man alive [8D]

 

[fmunday]

Originally posted by Scott
<br />Articles and such,

Well, I think of articles as fuel for the fire! And I hope that no one here believes that if there is an article on the subject, that it is the difinitive authority on the subject! We are an education oriented website. And articles by those who do a good job of penturning is what we want! They get the creative juices flowing! I like step-by-step instructions because I often find a method that is used by somebody, and I can use that method to accomplish something else!

I, for one, have to agree with Scott on this completely. I like step-by-step instructions to see if I can duplicate the procedure to start with and then make modifications, changes and improvements to suit my style. The end result, for me anyway, is usually something that resembles the original in general form but has taken a completely different turn to produce the final results based on my strengths or lack thereof (mostly lack thereof). []

Originally posted by ScottI think that trying new things and then reporting back on your findings is essential to this site. But I also encourage people to write articles for the magazines. It is the best way to bring more people to this great hobby! And we really like to reprint, with permission, the articles that come out in the magazines!

Scott, we need to discuss this off-line. I'll send you an email later.

Originally posted by Scott So keep writing! And remember that nobody is so good that we can't learn from their mistakes!

Scott.

One thing that I think is important when you try a procedure or method from someone else is to give that person feedback. What worked and what didn't and suggest improvements if you see any. Works for me. Now, if I could just figure out how to put those improvements into practice.[]