Help! - Caustic Fingers

[plano_harry]

I need to know if I am the only one who has experienced this problem. I really like the looks of the Ti Elegant Beauty and want to make pens that will last, but the same thing is happening to every one I touch.

Thought I had a bad plating batch so I returned the first 3. The replacements started showing the same issues after a couple of months. Keep in mind, these pens have not been in use. Just handling from showing them to clients. This is not wear on the EB's it is reddish maroon splotches. They are kept in a pen folio notebook. First batch were in a different brand folio from the second, so I don't think the folio is the issue. Just seems to break down where skin oils would be. No problems with the cheap gold in the same folios!

Last picture is a Ti clip from a Round Top Euro after only one week. I paid the extra bucks to get that durable Ti plating. I usually wipe the clip against my shirt or a micro fiber cloth before showing it to clients and bragging about how it writes better than a Mont Blanc. I was shocked to notice that it was already showing wear and beginning to darken along the edge of the clip after such a short time.

Would sure like some help on this if you have had similar experience or know what the problem could be. I like these two styles and I don't want to start wearing nitrile gloves when showing my pens!

Thanks,
Harry

 

[gallianp]

Hope someone jumps in with an answer! or at the very least a guess as to what is going on.....

 

[jmbaker79]

Geewillikers batman, thats crazy! I know that is no help, but I've never seen it like that! Hope you get an answer there!

 

[Jim Smith]

Is there any possibility that there is some sort of gas or vapor in the area where you store your completed pens? How about if you store a sample kit that has not been handled in the same area as you store your pens to see if that kit also displays the darkening and corrosion. Also, have you checked any pens that you completed and sold or gave away soon after it was completed? Could it be the effects of the finish you use on the pens? Does this happen on both wooden and acrylic or Truestone pens? Just a few thoughts on possible causes for this happening?

Jim Smith

 

[randyrls]

Harry; Skin is slightly acidic. You may have a more acidic skin than most. My wife has this condition. She cannot handle any cheap (ie non-gold) jewelery. After a short time her skin discolors and the jewelery looks like it has been attacked by acid.

Some pen parts have a lacquer sealer. If the lacquer wears off or is not completely sealed covering the part, skin acid may attack the part. The photos look like this is the case. the coating may have really tiny pinholes that allow corrosion to seep under the coating.


If you take Jim's great suggestion, wear latex gloves to do the testing.

Added later: Are you sure they are TI??? If you use anything that can dissolve lacquer it may be on your skin and inadvertently removing part of the coating. Since it appears to be on the "wear points" of the parts

PS. I like the pen in the middle of the 1st photo. I made "Fishers of Men" (Pacifica) pens for our pastors with the inscription " Follow me and I will make you fishers of men".

 

[ed4copies]

Hey Harry!!

I would SUGGEST (that's a nice word for "guessing sounds bad") trying a control.

My hypothesis (again avoiding "guess") is that the portfolio has been tanned with chemicals that are remaining in the "leatherette". Try making a few pens and putting them in a pen box (black cardboard will suffice, maple might be prettier). If you don't experience the color problem, throw away the portfolios.

This is based on a supposition that the "leatherette" is treated with something that is reacting with the plating. When you zip the portfolios, you create a very closed space--who knows if ammonia or other chemicals have been used and are sufficiently potent to damage the plating.

Just a thought---wepypfi!!!
Ed

 

[plano_harry]

Have not done the untouched exposure test yet - I thought my second batch might be ok.

I use CA on wood pens

One faliure was the acrylic feathers with no finish.
One failure was the wood you see in the picture with CA.
The front one was acrylic over abalone with no finish that I pulled and sold on a chrome sierra stylus.

I can't imagine why the clip failed so quickly on the Euro. That was a beautiful red jasper trustone. Loved that pen.

Is there any possibility that there is some sort of gas or vapor in the area where you store your completed pens? How about if you store a sample kit that has not been handled in the same area as you store your pens to see if that kit also displays the darkening and corrosion. Also, have you checked any pens that you completed and sold or gave away soon after it was completed? Could it be the effects of the finish you use on the pens? Does this happen on both wooden and acrylic or Truestone pens? Just a few thoughts on possible causes for this happening?

Jim Smith

 

[plano_harry]

Harry; Skin is slightly acidic. You may have a more acidic skin than most. My wife has this condition. She cannot handle any cheap (ie non-gold) jewelery. After a short time her skin discolors and the jewelery looks like it has been attacked by acid.

Some pen parts have a lacquer sealer. If the lacquer wears off or is not completely sealed covering the part, skin acid may attack the part. The photos look like this is the case. the coating may have really tiny pinholes that allow corrosion to seep under the coating.


If you take Jim's great suggestion, wear latex gloves to do the testing.

Added later: Are you sure they are TI??? If you use anything that can dissolve lacquer it may be on your skin and inadvertently removing part of the coating. Since it appears to be on the "wear points" of the parts

PS. I like the pen in the middle of the 1st photo. I made "Fishers of Men" (Pacifica) pens for our pastors with the inscription " Follow me and I will make you fishers of men".

Randy, could be an acid problem, but for the extra bucks I thought I was getting wonder plating. If it is acid, I can't believe this hasn't happened to other turners -- what if your wife bought one of my pens

Package says Ti Gold, I can't tell.

Hey Harry!!

I would SUGGEST (that's a nice word for "guessing sounds bad") trying a control.

My hypothesis (again avoiding "guess") is that the portfolio has been tanned with chemicals that are remaining in the "leatherette". Try making a few pens and putting them in a pen box (black cardboard will suffice, maple might be prettier). If you don't experience the color problem, throw away the portfolios.

This is based on a supposition that the "leatherette" is treated with something that is reacting with the plating. When you zip the portfolios, you create a very closed space--who knows if ammonia or other chemicals have been used and are sufficiently potent to damage the plating.

Just a thought---wepypfi!!!
Ed

Ed, that could be the problem - one folio was plastic, the other mystery leather - had failures in both. No signs of any discoloration on the underside of the clip that was not touched.

I have one untouched nib left - I can put it untouched in the folio or touched in the box

King Midas had a similar problem - no wait, that was different... I should have made this a Bash Contest!!

 

[commercialbuilder]

I have seen this type problem when acid vapors react to the platings on door knobs light fixtures etc. Hardware stores that sell the higher end hardware will not even store muratic acid in the store.

 

[mredburn]

It may be your diet effecting your chemistry. It just may be you. I used to have a problem with rusting steel. If I touched a gun barrel you could see my prints in the bluing in two hours. I worked in concrete at the time, lots of coffee and salt. You might be able to use a hand lotion that will help keep a barrier between you skin and what your holding.

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

Yikes, do you give the pens a final wax coat? like Renaissance Wax? Yes it's price is a bit high however for what your loosing in pens... besides a little bit goes along way. I apply before assembly to all parts that are visible upon completion.

Just my two cents

Drew

 

[plano_harry]

Drew, do I understand that you are waxing the hardware? I have not used any wax on my pens. Just CA on porous materials.

Yikes, do you give the pens a final wax coat? like Renaissance Wax? Yes it's price is a bit high however for what your loosing in pens... besides a little bit goes along way. I apply before assembly to all parts that are visible upon completion.

Just my two cents

Drew

 

[Smitty37]

Titanium Nitride is not very reactive with even strong inorganic acids and is not soluable in organic solvents. It is reactive to hydrogent peroxide though.
I couldn't find anything on the net discussing possible reaction of Titanium Nitride with human skin acids.

 

[Sylvanite]

I have a friend with a similar problem. He would complain bitterly about the bad quality TiGold plating of a certain brand of kits that I never had any problem with. He insisted that the plating was just gold colored paint because it flaked right off his pens.

He had the habit, though, of clipping his pens inside the neckband of his t-shirt. I always suspected that there was just something about his body chemistry (i.e. sweat) that attacked the plating.

Your best bet may be just to switch to chrome (or rhodium) plated components.

Regards,
Eric

 

[Smitty37]

Here is a possibility...Titanium Nitride plating is very thin because when it is plated thicker it has a tendency to crack. The thin plating probably has "pores" that go through to the base metal. It could be that your skin produces an acid that goes through the TiN and attacks the base underneith. Copper and silver coins are know to be very prone to corrosion from fingers and it would not surprise me if the base metal of the kits is a copper alloy. You might have the same problem with all TiN coatings.

 

[TomW]

Hey Harry,

My dad used to use Cross brand pencils (for 40 years at Exxon). His hands would cause the chrome pencils to eat away (down to a yellow sub strait) in about 60 days. On a whim, he sent one back to Cross, and they promptly sent him a new one, suggesting he switch to gold. Being the "economically minded" person he was, instead he took the new one, and once very other month, repeated the return. I'll bet over the years he got 30-40 new chrome Cross pencils from them.

Tom

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

Drew, do I understand that you are waxing the hardware? I have not used any wax on my pens. Just CA on porous materials.

Yikes, do you give the pens a final wax coat? like Renaissance Wax? Yes it's price is a bit high however for what your loosing in pens... besides a little bit goes along way. I apply before assembly to all parts that are visible upon completion.

Just my two cents

Drew

I wax all hardware except the tenon's that go in to tubes