Ron in Drums PA
Member
PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals
I believe all God's creatures belong next to the potatoes.
FSC wood
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PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals
I believe all God's creatures belong next to the potatoes.
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Nolan
Member
Not that was friggin funny!!! I am gonna laugh all day about that!
And yah I do my part using up forest products, wont go into that cuz just too much mis-information on the subject. Thats why in my other post I stated that you probably can find a polar opinion than mine if you look for it. Like Cav pointed out there are bigger fish to fry in the whole resource wasting issue.Proud_Poppa_of_2
Member
I beg to differ with you on that one, Ron. I think the pan-fried trout belongs next to the seasoned rice.
Jarheaded
Member
If we didn't use up resources with out some disreguard, my lathe would be kick powered and I would only be working during daylight hours. And I certainly wouldn't be wasting electricity using my computer while the TV is on. At least I don't turn on the AC if the heat gets too high in the winter( can you tell I have worked for the government). Got to go and cut some burls off a felled tree, maybe I can cut a bung too for a cow...LOL
sbell111
Member
1. What kind of car/SUV do you drive and what kind of gas mileage does it get?
Me: Jeep Grand Cherokee 13/18 mpg, Cadillac Allante, 13/20 mpg (but it's worth it)
Wifey: Chevy Trail Blazer 14/20 mpg, Ford T-Bird 0/0 mpg (currently)
1 a. Do you car pool?
No, although we do sometimes go places together. [
]1 b. Do you ever drive anywhere just for pleasure, wasting energy?
I don't consider that a waste.
2. Do you suck up far more than your share of petroleum resources by heating your house in the winter and (gasp) using air conditioning in the summer?
Yup. In fact, sometimes we turn on the AC in the winter.
3. Please don’t tell me you abuse your place in the food chain by consuming innocent animals raised and slaughtered for your obscene pleasure?
Innocent? They had it coming. Who hasn't read Animal Farm?
4. Do you produce excessive amounts of trash to be placed in landfills further despoiling the environment?
No. I produce the exact amount of trash that I need to produce. Nothing excessive. If I were to buy things solely for the purpose of throwing them away, it would be excessive.
Russianwolf
Member
quote]Originally posted by wdcav1952
Perhaps a bit of a quiz is in order:[/quote]
1. What kind of car/SUV do you drive and what kind of gas mileage does it get?
Me: 1970 Jeep Gladiator Pickup -too scared to calculate the milage. Driven 8 miles a day and a bit on weekends (when the tires aren't slashed ), Wife has a 2003 Saturn Vue about 20/24, only thing that fits a pack of pups and gets decent milage.
1 a. Do you car pool?
No, I take a hulking deisel train 140 round trip each day to work with about 500 other people, no cars involved and if one gets in our way, we win.
1 b. Do you ever drive anywhere just for pleasure, wasting energy?
Very rarely, I have too many things to actually do.
2. Do you suck up far more than your share of petroleum resources by heating your house in the winter and (gasp) using air conditioning in the summer?
In the Winter our house rarely gets above 65 degrees, Huskies don't like heat. In summer, we do run the AC.
3. Please don’t tell me you abuse your place in the food chain by consuming innocent animals raised and slaughtered for your obscene pleasure?
abuse my place? not at all, I eat animals that are beneath my place and am open to being eaten by those above me (are there any up there)
4. Do you produce excessive amounts of trash to be placed in landfills further despoiling the environment?
No. I do not produce trash, Companies do. I mearly buy a product that is wrapped by them in trash and only keep the product. Don't blame me for their faults.
[/quote]
Perhaps a bit of a quiz is in order:[/quote]
1. What kind of car/SUV do you drive and what kind of gas mileage does it get?
Me: 1970 Jeep Gladiator Pickup -too scared to calculate the milage. Driven 8 miles a day and a bit on weekends (when the tires aren't slashed ), Wife has a 2003 Saturn Vue about 20/24, only thing that fits a pack of pups and gets decent milage.
1 a. Do you car pool?
No, I take a hulking deisel train 140 round trip each day to work with about 500 other people, no cars involved and if one gets in our way, we win.
1 b. Do you ever drive anywhere just for pleasure, wasting energy?
Very rarely, I have too many things to actually do.
2. Do you suck up far more than your share of petroleum resources by heating your house in the winter and (gasp) using air conditioning in the summer?
In the Winter our house rarely gets above 65 degrees, Huskies don't like heat. In summer, we do run the AC.
3. Please don’t tell me you abuse your place in the food chain by consuming innocent animals raised and slaughtered for your obscene pleasure?
abuse my place? not at all, I eat animals that are beneath my place and am open to being eaten by those above me (are there any up there)
4. Do you produce excessive amounts of trash to be placed in landfills further despoiling the environment?
No. I do not produce trash, Companies do. I mearly buy a product that is wrapped by them in trash and only keep the product. Don't blame me for their faults.
[/quote]
GoodTurns
Member
Q: Do you know what they do to animals in those slaughterhouses?
A: Nope, but it sure does make them taste good!
Sfolivier
Member
You know, there's a big difference between global impact / ecological footprint (an important discussion, but one that is also really off-topic on this forum) and using wood from endangered species that are harvested in an unregulated, unsustainable way.
I guess mentioning ecology in a woodworking environment always generates a lot of passion, usually from people who wrongly believe that their lifestyle or income is threatened.
I don't really see the connection between gas mileage and using almost extinct mahogany subspecies to make a pen. I really don't see the link between eating cows and turning illegally harvested Nepali sandalwood. Obviously, some people think they do. It's unfortunate because connections like those seems to prevent them from really thinking about how they do certain things.
That's too bad. Me? I'm gone from this righteous thread.
I guess mentioning ecology in a woodworking environment always generates a lot of passion, usually from people who wrongly believe that their lifestyle or income is threatened.
I don't really see the connection between gas mileage and using almost extinct mahogany subspecies to make a pen. I really don't see the link between eating cows and turning illegally harvested Nepali sandalwood. Obviously, some people think they do. It's unfortunate because connections like those seems to prevent them from really thinking about how they do certain things.
That's too bad. Me? I'm gone from this righteous thread.
For those who might be interested. http://www.eyeontherainforest.org/rfnewsletter192008.php
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Gee, I guess it is good I didn't mention Al (jet around the globe on my private plane) Gore. [:0] Debate is only good if everyone agrees it seems. As for myself, I think it was a righteous thread that lent itself to good discussion.
Ron in Drums PA
Member
You must be talking about the "The Father Of The Internet.
From the founder of the Weather Channel
http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/newyork08.cfm
Latest info on the ice caps
http://tinyurl.com/2dg5z5
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Ron, you must have forgotten that Tipper and Al were the inspiration for Love Story</u> and got to testify to each other when they investigated dirty rock lyrics. How he ever had the spare time to invent the internet is beyond me.
Ron in Drums PA
Member
I think he was cloned in the in the same vat that Dolly was.
Proud_Poppa_of_2
Member
Dolly Parton's were cloned??? [:0] I had always thought they were real?
Ron in Drums PA
Member
LOL
The sheep named Dolly
Do a google
The sheep named Dolly
Do a google
SuperDave
Member
... I can't afford to buy any more blanks and kits... My Carbon Credit Payment to Algore[}] is due...
What a friggin scam!!
] is due...What a friggin scam!!
loglugger
Member
I am sure glad this thread is finally making some sense.
Bob
Bob
TellicoTurning
Member
You mean you're not suppose to re-use nail[:0]
I guess I learned something from dear ol' Dad... I'm for ever doing that.
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Chuck, we could team up. I'm forever bending nails![B)]
Ron in Drums PA
Member
Boy, that brought back a memory.
I think I was about 5 or 6 and just completed my first woodworking project... hammering 100 nails into a 2x4. I was pretty proud of my work of art and ran to show my father.
He took one look at my first creation and then told me I had to remove every nail and if they where bent I had to straighten them out. He showed me how to do it then left.
It took me two days before I passed inspection and once I did he showed me how to build a bird house. Of course all the wood was cut and all I had to do was nail it together. But I was really good at taking out any nail I bent, straighten them out and reuse them.
I have a couple of nailers now and use them for big projects, but I still straighten any nail I bend.
Jarheaded
Member
What? Are you kidding me? No reason to finish a discussion if everyone doesn't see it your way. Do you have furniture in your home? What is it made from? Was it sprayed with a finish that could possibly harm anything else? Why is it okay to use one type of wood and not another? Do you think that a certain type of wood is okay to use because there is plenty of it and it will never run out? Illegaly harvested wood does not make it into my shop knowingly. I have never even heard of those woods. You can't really believe that we use illegal wood and are happy about risking a hefty fine or the chance of going to jail just to turn a pen. Most of my wood is from reclaimed lumber or other turners willing to share what they have. I just went out today and loaded about 200lbs of burl into my Jeep(15/20 mpg) that was from trees cut down due to carpenter ant damage. Am I some sort of savage for buying Aussie burl? I like the wood and it is already down due to progress, not using it would be a waste. If you are so worried about things, why are you not doing something to change things instead of just talking about it? and by the way, my pickup truck gets 4 mpg when I plow and I am happy it does that good, it helps to pay for my $3.79 a gallon heating oil so my family doesn't freeze. In the summer, yes I run an AC at night so my kids can sleep. I like to go for a ride and even do some off-roading to clear my head. I also eat meat because I like it and if I became dinner for something, so be it. I don't carpool because I don't have any steady hours to work. I make trash because I don't know what else to do with things that I don't have any use for, but I do try to recycle. Now I am done being righteous and will take my toys and go home.[:0]
Oops forgot, I thought that nails bent over on purpose to help hold things better.
Oops forgot, I thought that nails bent over on purpose to help hold things better.
Woodchopper
Member
The county bought an easement from me for a water main. It took quite few trees, some of which were hickory and cherry. They were cut to make way for the water main, but were cut and hauled to the sawyer. The hardwoods were. I'm now kicking myself for not negotiating for the timber.
Dell
scroller99
Member
I readm in a magazine that the natives that clear the land for farming, in the real backwater places in south america usually just burn the trees when they are fell, now that is a crime anyway you look at it! Howard
loglugger
Member
They did at one time, don't know that it is still going on that mutch.
Bob
Bob
Ron in Drums PA
Member
It might still be happening, but these men are trying to provide for their families.
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Gosh, we are sooooo lucky things like that never happened here in the United States.
clthayer
Member
Don't know about you, but as soon as the snow is gone I'm puttin' up next years fire wood.
clthayer
Member
My employer was going to become FSC certified a few years ago. It seems that a few of our buyers were willing to pay a bit more for FSC certified lumber. But then they were told to make the check out to The Rainforest Alliance and they thought that maybe they would sell the lumber for what they always got for it.
On another note, there was a good article in The Northern Logger and Timber Harvester a month or two ago about illegal timber harvesting in, Oh, I think maybe it was Indonesia. I'll see if I can find it and make it available to all you good people.
Christian
On another note, there was a good article in The Northern Logger and Timber Harvester a month or two ago about illegal timber harvesting in, Oh, I think maybe it was Indonesia. I'll see if I can find it and make it available to all you good people.
Christian
Paul Downes
Member
O.K. I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I have a bumper sticker on my truck that says "pro logging environmentalist". Hey , I used to work as a logger in Michigan's U.P. When I was up in the big woods, there was a controversy going on over a proposed new paper mill. The anti-logging bunch were very vocal about the "rapeing of mother earth" ond so on. Mostly they expressed emotional arguments with little in the way of facts to back up their claims. Some of their members were spiking trees which could have injured or killed the guys trying to make a living. When it was all over, and after the paper mill company pulled it's proposal, it was found out that the leader of the anti-logging group was in fact the son of a Mead company executive. It was all politics and it just cost yoopers the chance at decent jobs.
Most of the logging we did was sustainable logging called TSI. (timber stand improvement). Clear cutting is done in pulp wood stands which are renewable in a 30 year cycle or less.
My cousin lives and works in the jungles of Guatemala. He is a biologist and has worked to preserve the oseolated turkey. He has increased the numbers of these birds by managing them for limited harvest (gringo hunts) which has also increased the income of the village he lives in by something like 4 times. He expressed a desire to me to get a portable sawmill going to harvest trees that are left by the loggers who are cutting the jungle. The loggers work until the rainy season hits and when they start getting their log trucks stuck they throw off logs to get unstuck and leave these logs to rot on the side of the road. These are the logs he wishes to harvest.
I think these people are just trying to make a living. No matter how much we might object to the logging in the rain forests, I believe the wood will be cut and sold. I think the only thing impacted by protesting the harvest is the price of the wood. It will be sold somewhere, and it will be cut. It would be nice to see sustainable harvest methods employed, but keep in mind that the people who live there are quite poor and are just trying to make a living.
As far as the global market and global warming are concerned, I think both are a load of crap. The global market allows us to attempt to compete with slave states such as China.
My dad was a scientist who was of the opinion that somewhere up to 80% of the "science" published was corrupt and provably so. Money is the prime corrupting agent. Remember that farming used to be done on greenland. Planes that crashed there during ww2 are now under several hundred feet of ice. They used to grow oranges in Great Britain......and so on.
I sure would have liked to see Michigan when it was covered with Chessnut trees. But heck, the world changes. I think man's impact on the earth is rather small over time. I think it's arrogant to think we have as much impact as is being said with today's environmental controversies. Not that we shouldn't attempt to do the honorable thing and be conservoters of the resources available......Let's go make some pens.
Most of the logging we did was sustainable logging called TSI. (timber stand improvement). Clear cutting is done in pulp wood stands which are renewable in a 30 year cycle or less.
My cousin lives and works in the jungles of Guatemala. He is a biologist and has worked to preserve the oseolated turkey. He has increased the numbers of these birds by managing them for limited harvest (gringo hunts) which has also increased the income of the village he lives in by something like 4 times. He expressed a desire to me to get a portable sawmill going to harvest trees that are left by the loggers who are cutting the jungle. The loggers work until the rainy season hits and when they start getting their log trucks stuck they throw off logs to get unstuck and leave these logs to rot on the side of the road. These are the logs he wishes to harvest.
I think these people are just trying to make a living. No matter how much we might object to the logging in the rain forests, I believe the wood will be cut and sold. I think the only thing impacted by protesting the harvest is the price of the wood. It will be sold somewhere, and it will be cut. It would be nice to see sustainable harvest methods employed, but keep in mind that the people who live there are quite poor and are just trying to make a living.
As far as the global market and global warming are concerned, I think both are a load of crap. The global market allows us to attempt to compete with slave states such as China.
My dad was a scientist who was of the opinion that somewhere up to 80% of the "science" published was corrupt and provably so. Money is the prime corrupting agent. Remember that farming used to be done on greenland. Planes that crashed there during ww2 are now under several hundred feet of ice. They used to grow oranges in Great Britain......and so on.
I sure would have liked to see Michigan when it was covered with Chessnut trees. But heck, the world changes. I think man's impact on the earth is rather small over time. I think it's arrogant to think we have as much impact as is being said with today's environmental controversies. Not that we shouldn't attempt to do the honorable thing and be conservoters of the resources available......Let's go make some pens.
helgi
Member
Reading this sure brings back some memories especially with a tree hugger in the mix
we had some of those up here in canada, a few years back (Hired by one of the Kennedy clan) mostly young university and street people type ) wouldnt let the loggers and equipment through chained themselves to trees and lived in the tops. They were living in tents or made up shacks and toilet and washing facilities behind every bush.When everything was over guess who had to clean up their utopic environment. By the way we as loggers spotted the burls on the trees and harvested them before cutting the tree xtra money or coffee or end tables some up here in canada 6' long 2.5' wide. But yes we all should be better prepared to conserve, and if the timber barons would have started re-planting from the start we wouldn't be in this mess.
we had some of those up here in canada, a few years back (Hired by one of the Kennedy clan) mostly young university and street people type ) wouldnt let the loggers and equipment through chained themselves to trees and lived in the tops. They were living in tents or made up shacks and toilet and washing facilities behind every bush.When everything was over guess who had to clean up their utopic environment. By the way we as loggers spotted the burls on the trees and harvested them before cutting the tree xtra money or coffee or end tables some up here in canada 6' long 2.5' wide. But yes we all should be better prepared to conserve, and if the timber barons would have started re-planting from the start we wouldn't be in this mess.
Ron in Drums PA
Member
This is a signature from another turner, ya gotta love it...
EARTH FIRST!!! We will log the other planets later....
EARTH FIRST!!! We will log the other planets later....
loglugger
Member
While I was still logging I had a bumper sticker on my work pick up that said I LIKE MY SPOTTED OWLS FRIED, stopped for coffee one time and I thought a lady in the parking lot was going to have a fist fight with me, tried to tell her it was just a joke but she wasn't going for it. Kind of funny now but I am not in the habit of fighting with strange women in a parking lot.
Bob
Bob
clthayer
Member
Alright, here it is
http://www.natlhardwood.org/pdf/Hardwood Matters/HM_Jan_Feb_08.pdf
I lied though, it wasn't in The Northern Logger, it was in Hardwood Matters. This is NHLA's monthly publication. The article I was talking about is on page 8, but the pdf took a while to load. There is also some interesting stuff about cellulosic ethanol.
Christian
http://www.natlhardwood.org/pdf/Hardwood Matters/HM_Jan_Feb_08.pdf
I lied though, it wasn't in The Northern Logger, it was in Hardwood Matters. This is NHLA's monthly publication. The article I was talking about is on page 8, but the pdf took a while to load. There is also some interesting stuff about cellulosic ethanol.
Christian
Paul Downes
Member
Love the "Earth First" statement, I've got that bumper sticker on our van. I used to have a t-shirt that said "nuke the whales" boy did some people get offended by that one. They actually thought I was serious. Of course I would tell them it was a protest of bubble heads like themselves. Not exactly Dale Carnegie stuff.
Randy_
Member
I guess I must live in a cave since no one else has asked the question.
What the heck is FSC wood??
What the heck is FSC wood??
Jarheaded
Member
All this talk about saving the earth has touched me. I am happy to say that I am doing my part too. I rescued 3 whelbarrows of curly maple burl from a yard that was going to use it for firewood. I also picked up several nicely spalted logs while I was there. I owe them 2 slimline pens for it, but may upgrade them to Jr. Retros or something. Later this week I will go back and get the rest of the burls and help the earth some more. It feels good to do my part.
Ron in Drums PA
Member
Forest Silly Crazies (aka Money grab, aka Forest Stewardship Council)
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34394&whichpage=3#357878
JayDevin
Member
On Sunday I went to the inlaws 900 acre ranch and rescued some manzitnita and Chamise burls that were A: blocking a needed road B: on the ground awaiting rot. No trees were felled, on one blocking the road fell by itself. It was rumored to be over 100 years old and had a trunk about 18 in in diameter. In manzanita is left alone out in the woods it will ge that big. Perhaps I will shoot some photos.Im also gonn make cast pen blanks some tghat I might offer for sale. more later on that subject.
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Woodchopper
Member
Some people just have no sense of humor.
Dell