fountain pen nib question

[Firefyter-emt]

I think if you put ink in the pen, and it creeps, it could be called "2-tone" Eh?? [}]

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />......Do you have any Ligeros???

Is the nib any different from the others, stamped simply "Germany"? Do they SAY "made in Germany"? Do they come in a bag that is clearly labeled China or Taiwan.....

Sorry, Ed, I do not have a Ligero so I cannot answer those question? Maybe there is someone else out there who can?

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />......I honestly don't know the answer to these questions, but I question everything I read - because CSUSA wrote it does not mean it emanated from an infallible source!!![:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]

That is certainly true. And a healthy skepticism is not a bad thing. On the other hand if skepticism is not even handed, it turns to cynicism. Which is where this thread seems to be headed. I would fully agree that just because CSUSA said so doesn't guarantee that it is true; but by the same token, just because you and others have read some general information saying the nibs stamped with the graphic "GERMANY" can be made in China, it doesn't mean that "YOUR" source is infallible with respect to nibs sold by a specific vendor .....in this case, CSUSA. Until I know one way or the other, I am going to give CSUSA the benefit of the doubt and assume their information is accurate. Someone is going to have to "PROVE" to me that they are intentionally misrepresenting their products before I am willing to accept that as fact. CSUSA has a fine reputation as a pen vendor and I for one find it irresponsible for anyone to suggest or even hint that they are other than honest and truthful based on speculation with information from sources who are, themselves, questionable.

And as a final general comment, I can't really get too worked up over the iridium thing.....seems a little trivial to me. I am aware that the use of iridium in pen point has been drastically reduced/even eliminated in recent years due to cost considerations and technological improvements. Seems to me I read an article not too long ago that some nib makers still use small but measurable amounts of iridium in their nibs.....less than was used in "the old days"; but nevertheless a finite amount. Can't say if the article is accurate or not and can't post a link for it. Just mention it as something worth considering. I don't really care what anyone calls the little tips and likewise, I don't really care if the tips, today have any iridium in them or not. I don't ever recall anyone getting upset about:

1. Going to their Minolta copier and saying they are doing some XEROXing.(except for maybe the Minolta vendor[])

2. Getting a cola out of the machine at Sam's and calling it a COKE.

3. Discussing gold pen nibs when they are really made out of gold, silver, copper and who knows what else??

People who know fountain pens most likely know there is little or no iridium in the tip and those who don't know most likely don't even care. Seems like an issue not worth wadding up your shorts over??

 

[ed4copies]

My shorts and I are perfectly happy together.

However, I always prefer to be accurate in my statements, especially those made to customers.

Whether CSUSA is giving us inaccurate information INTENTIONALLY or purely through NEGLECTING to be accurate matters little, to ME. I will seek accurate information, verifiable by outside sources.
If I can find no such assurances, I will prefer to tell my customer that the manufacturer CLAIMS this is so, but I will not put MY reputation behind it.

In some cases, there is no verifiable source, so this is the best "guarantee" anyone can provide. Except, of course, the major pen manufacturers who will proudly tell you the NAME of the nib maker in Germany!! (German companies DO have names-why would they prefer to leave it OFF the nibs we purchase?)

Well, I leave for the weekend - so no more harrassing until Tuesday.[][][][][]


I wish everyone (including CSUSA's people, whom I have always found to be pleasant) a GREAT holiday weekend!!!!!

 

[Milpaul]

I originally started this thread because I was questioned by a customer about a gold nib and I wanted to be knowledgeable about what they are looking for and whether it was a personal preference or if there is a difference in wear or feel. Although this seems headed in a different direction I do agree (and believe me I don't enjoy agreeing with ed []) that if we misrepresent an item to a customer we will lose credibility, so I hope we can learn more about the content and origin or the nibs. If it is for our personal use it might not matter as much.

 

[Firefyter-emt]

By the way... has it ever made anyone ponder that the nibs only say "Germany" on them and not "Made in Germany" With that to point, does it HAVE TO imply that they are made in Germany the way they are named? For example, where is the Hyundai Sante-Fe made? Does it have anything to do with Sante-Fe at all??

 

[DCBluesman]

I generally do not like to post multiple comments to a thread, but this one is an exception. Nibs, like paper or the internet, will sit there and let you write anything you want on them.

Here are some Chinese-manufacture steel nibs. How do I know? I solicited 10 different nib manufacturers in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Mainland China, Argentina, German, Great Britain and Italy over the past seven months as I have decided to stock nibs. These nibs were sent to me from China via DHL International. Check them out yourself.

<br />

This is not offered as proof that CS USA or any of our suppliers use nibs like this, but they are out there by the hundreds of thousands. Somebody is obviously using them for something. [8D]

 

[bjackman]

Originally posted by Firefyter-emt
<br />I think if you put ink in the pen, and it creeps, it could be called "2-tone" Eh?? [}]

Lee,
Sometimes you scare me..... []

 

[Firefyter-emt]

Ohhhhhhh Lou.... you have mail! []

 

[Texatdurango]

Just an FYI... I just assembled a Jr Statesman fountain pen kit from CSUSA and the nib has two lines of text which read:
Dayacom
Germany

I looked up Dayacom and it seems they are a huge importer/exporter of just about everything under the sun so it's possible they have the nibs made in Germany with their name on them then sell them to whomever puts the kits together, if not themselves.

Who knows?

 

[Ben_CSUSA]

Hi all. Yesterday Eric brought this post to my attention. I have always been under the impression that our nibs did come from Germany, and that they were indeed Iridium tipped. I emailed our supplier and had my impressions confirmed. The nibs are indeed made in Germany. They are not made in Taiwan or China. Our supplier brings them in to Taiwan and assembles the rest of the kit together with the nibs. That is the reason they are in a "Taiwan" bag. The nibs do indeed have an Iridium tip.

The manufacturer of the nib sent our supplier detail on the iridium tip, and why they use it. It is in fact an alloy, Iridium and Osmium mostly. It is considered a "top grade" product due to its hardness (resistance to wear) and its resistance to ink. This company has been making nibs for many decades. I trust that they are telling the truth.

Now for the part I don't want to tell you. Our supplier has informed me that the only exception to this in our line of fountain pens is the Ligero Pen. He imports these nibs, but from a different supplier. He is waiting to hear back from the supplier as to whether or not the nibs are made in Germany or elsewhere. He also is unsure if it is truly iridium used in the point of this nib. To quote him "We are not sure Ligero fountain pen nibs are iridium point, so may not be real iridium."

Our write up on the Ligero Pen clearly states that the nib is German made, and that it is an iridium point. There is definitely some doubt at this point as to whether or not that is true. If it is not true, I can assure you that you were not mislead intentionally. To our knowledge, these nibs came from the same manufacturer, and we had no reason to believe that they would be different. We had decided to discontinue this pen for other reasons, but this makes the decision even easier. These pens are currently “Clearance Priced†at 30% off, and will not be in our upcoming Fall/Winter Catalog.

I will update you on these nibs as soon as I know more, and, if need be, change our write up on the pen to accurately reflect where the nib is made, and what it is made of.

I can be reached at bwilliams (at) woodturnerscatalog.com if I can answer any further questions for you. Myself or Eric Dorman will be in touch as soon as I know more. Thanks for listening.

Ben Williams
General Manager
Craft Supplies USA

 

[gerryr]

So, the question is, what is the percentage of iridium in the tipping material?

 

[ed4copies]

I have known Ben Williams for over a decade. I believe him to be a man of honor. I believe he is telling US exactly what he was told.

However, since I do NOT know his supplier, I will continue to tell MY customers this is a "good quality steel nib". If you want a BETTER nib, I will be offering the Turchetta nibs of gold (as I have for the past year or so, as well as the new DC nib, as soon as it is available. BOTH of these gentlemen are working DIRECTLY with the suppliers, so I KNOW they can read a "waybill" and confirm where theirs are made!

Thank-you Ben!!

 

[PenWorks]

For what it's worth, the metal tipping on my gold nibs is not iridium. If asked the question, is that an iridium tip on the nib? I would respond it is a hard metal alloy. For the metalurgist that has to know the material content of the tipping, this is what I just got back from the manufacturer.

According to our supplier the material is a “high per cent Rhutenium alloy with Osmium and additionally Wolfram†(literal translation). More information is not to get.

Also, using thee term "gold nib" is common practice, but is the nib, gold plate, 14K, 18K, or 21K.. I have never seen a solid gold 24K nib.

The gold nibs I sell are 14K with a hard metal alloy tip []

 

[ed4copies]

Anthony,

The question doesn't seem to come up if the word "Iridium" is NOT printed on the nib!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With yours, the 14K that is printed on them seems to suffice to the fountain pen user.

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by Milpaul
<br />I originally started this thread because I was questioned by a customer about a gold nib and I wanted to be knowledgeable about what they are looking for and whether it was a personal preference or if there is a difference in wear or feel. Although this seems headed in a different direction I do agree (and believe me I don't enjoy agreeing with ed []) that if we misrepresent an item to a customer we will lose credibility, so I hope we can learn more about the content and origin or the nibs. If it is for our personal use it might not matter as much.

Since you have displayed the good judgement to be informed, here are a few of the answers which may spark some new conversation that will help you (although Penworks and DCBluesman will probably have to be prodded to reply again on this topic - their input is invaluable to the topic):

What we sell is a "good quality steel nib" - medium point.

For some fountain pen collectors or "religious" users, this is not good enough. You should carry fine and broad points in steel - many users prefer one of these choices. Steel nibs will accomodate a person who "pushes" fairly hard, as we do when we are accustomed to writing with a ball point pen. (This is MOST of us Americans).

Some users have developed a "lighter touch". (OR they THINK they have, this is not for us to debate, the customer is right, this time). With a lighter touch, they may prefer a gold nib, which is designed to have more flexibility. They come in many shapes and sizes, but Anthony's 14K has been acceptable to those I have "sold".

As I said, this is entered mostly to draw out other comments - there are many here who KNOW nibs and can give you a better answer than I.

So, guys, tell Paul about nibs!!!!! (PLEASE!!!)[][]

 

[Milpaul]

Thanks for the bump Ed, but with over 1000 hits this post has gone on longer that I thought! Your explanation about the flexibility is what I was looking for. I was interested in learning if the gold nib was a cosmetic or mechanical preference. This answers my question although more info is certainly encouraged (even from Ed [:0])

 

[gerryr]

The solid, 14K, 18K, etc., nib offers more than just some flexibility. The ink also flows MUCH better than with a steel nib. I have one of Anthony's nibs on my FP and I can let it set for even as long as 2 weeks, pick it and start writing immediately. I tried quite a few steel nibs and after a couple of days, they would need some "priming" to write again.