first carbon fiber pen

[SDTurner]

After so many failed attempts, I finally was able to create a carbon fiber pen. Still has many imperfections such as 5-minute epoxy seeping out through the weave and once it dried it looks like tiny silver dots.

Also included a picture of my failed attempt where my medium CA glue would eat through the green material and it would become hazy. So I switched to 5 minute epoxy covering the tube and then slipping the carbon fiber over it. should it work better with thin CA glue by any chance?

 

[magpens]

I can't answer your question but I will stay tuned in case someone else posts answer.

I think that pen looks really great !!

Where did you get that two-color fiber weave ?

 

[SDTurner]

... I think that pen looks really great !!

Where did you get that two-color fiber weave ?

Thank you! I got the weave from sollercomposites. The site has lots of different colors to choose from. Minimum 5ft order required if ordered in 50/50 color weave. I'm glad the min order was 5ft because I probably ended up wasting 3ft of sleeve trying to experiment with my medium CA glue messing up the green fibers. Maybe it's just my cheap crappy CA glue that caused me such a hard time.

 

[OZturner]

Thank you for the Post, Andy.
And Showing the problems you Experienced.
Love your Final result looks Great.
Congratulations,
Brian.

 

[Ziggy]

What diameter did you use? I've been looking to make some of my own but haven't been completely sure on which tubing to get.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app

 

[jttheclockman]

1/2" to 5/8" will work on all kits. I use Silmar41 to cast my blanks so that is the same material I use to adhere the CF to the tube. Works great.

 

[KCW]

1/2" to 5/8" will work on all kits. I use Silmar41 to cast my blanks so that is the same material I use to adhere the CF to the tube. Works great.

I've seen you say this before John, but not quite sure how you do it. Do you just mix a small batch of PR, smear it on the CF, then let it sit to cure? How long does that small film of PR take to cure?

 

[SDTurner]

1/2" to 5/8" will work on all kits. I use Silmar41 to cast my blanks so that is the same material I use to adhere the CF to the tube. Works great.

I've seen you say this before John, but not quite sure how you do it. Do you just mix a small batch of PR, smear it on the CF, then let it sit to cure? How long does that small film of PR take to cure?

Yes John, I saw you mention your technique and also you posted a picture of your setup in my other post when I was first having issues with CA glue and green color fading. I wanted to try your way of gluing the sleeve to the tube using the resin as it seems much better than rolling the tube in epoxy and then sliding the sleeve over and stretching but I couldn't really figure out how were stopping the tube from sliding around when you would put it over the stick... I'm not sure if you have a write up or a small video on the explanation of how you actually use the resin with the sleeve over the pen tubes over the stick. It looks very simple and easy but for some reason I can't picture the process in my mind.


PS: below writing is bunch of new findings for me yesterday after a long conversation with a coworker. Most of you might already know this but I thought I'd still share.

1/2" sleeve is what I used. It expands quite a bit. The only issue I saw with the 1/2" was when I brought the pen into work to show it to one of my composite engineer and we were discussing it... there were a few things we found out regarding the makeup of the material (carbon fiber) and how it looked stretched out onto the bigger OD cap and the smaller OD of the body. Because of the stretch, the weaves don't 100% match the spacing on both the cap and the body of the pen due to the surface area. I'm guessing an average customer isn't going to be measuring the spacing and the distance using a 10x magnification lenses lol. He has too many fancy tools at his desk and we had nothing better to do...

Another cool thing that I discovered was that while were comparing the weight and makeup of the 1/2" sleeve of plain carbon fiber (sollarcomposite) vs 1/2" black/green (fiberglass, sollarcampsite) vs multiple different carbon fiber twills that he has laying around his desk(In-house General Atomics made stuff :biggrin: ) was that the normal plain 1/2" Sollercomposite carbon fiber is very similar in feel and makeup of the fibers to the stuff that we use in our own Predator XP, B and MQ-9 series of aircrafts. The biggest difference came in when we were comparing the Black/Green 50/50 mix of carbon fiber and fiberglass weave. The carbon fiber was impregnated with some sort of resin to make it so much more stiffer than the plain carbon fiber witch feels like smoother than silk. On the plain carbon fiber sleeve you can literally pull a strand that's probably thinner than hair out while the carbon fiber that was pre treated with resin to give it the same stiffness of the fiberglass was pretty much impossible to separate each strand. We are kind of leading towards the CA glue reacting to the resin used in green fiber glass or the carbon fiber causing the weird color fading. That or my medium CA glue was just plain crappy... I'm going to try to use the CA glue again on just plain carbon fiber and see if I still get the same color fading/washout ghosting look on plain carbon fiber.

 

[JohnU]

Looks great, love the color.

I've always used Loctite 2 part epoxy on mine with no problems. I spray paint the brass tubes black the day before, letting it cure over night, then roll the tube in the mixed epoxy and insert in the fiber. When you pull the ends of the weave and the epoxy squeezed through, I run my fingers over it, smoothing it out all over the top of the outside of the carbon fiber. I let it set for a day and cast in Silmar 41. I'm wondering if you had some air bubbles trapped in the epoxy that show up silver when finished... just a thought.

 

[SDTurner]

Hi John,

I literally used the exact same process as you. I used the waterproof Loctite 2 part epoxy and painted my tubes black and let them sit outside for nearly 2 days before putting the sleeve over it. After that, I let it sit additional 2 days before casting. I used the castin craft PR from Michaels and used a pressure pot casting at 50psi. I have a leak so in the morning I was at 0 pressure but I think it hardened up well before the morning. I had 0 bubbles.

The only thing I was not able to do was I didn't rub my finger over the tube after pulling the ends since I was holding the two ends tight on each side for about 5 minutes until the epoxy started to set and I no longer had to hold it tight.

 

[JohnU]

I would switch to Silmar 41 polyresin. Also, take some scrap wood and screw to uprights at each end of the board about 12-15" apart. Then tie string around each end o the fiber after you insert the epoxied tube. Then tie or clamp each end of the string to each upright board to hold it tight until it sets up. That will free up your fingers much earlier.
I would also suggest finding your leak and fixing that. I lose about 5 lbs over night but I always have pressure the next day. Remember, as pressure drops, air bubbles enlarge in the resin.
Keep up the good work!

 

[jttheclockman]

1/2" to 5/8" will work on all kits. I use Silmar41 to cast my blanks so that is the same material I use to adhere the CF to the tube. Works great.

I've seen you say this before John, but not quite sure how you do it. Do you just mix a small batch of PR, smear it on the CF, then let it sit to cure? How long does that small film of PR take to cure?

1/2" to 5/8" will work on all kits. I use Silmar41 to cast my blanks so that is the same material I use to adhere the CF to the tube. Works great.

I've seen you say this before John, but not quite sure how you do it. Do you just mix a small batch of PR, smear it on the CF, then let it sit to cure? How long does that small film of PR take to cure?

Yes John, I saw you mention your technique and also you posted a picture of your setup in my other post when I was first having issues with CA glue and green color fading. I wanted to try your way of gluing the sleeve to the tube using the resin as it seems much better than rolling the tube in epoxy and then sliding the sleeve over and stretching but I couldn't really figure out how were stopping the tube from sliding around when you would put it over the stick... I'm not sure if you have a write up or a small video on the explanation of how you actually use the resin with the sleeve over the pen tubes over the stick. It looks very simple and easy but for some reason I can't picture the process in my mind.


PS: below writing is bunch of new findings for me yesterday after a long conversation with a coworker. Most of you might already know this but I thought I'd still share.

1/2" sleeve is what I used. It expands quite a bit. The only issue I saw with the 1/2" was when I brought the pen into work to show it to one of my composite engineer and we were discussing it... there were a few things we found out regarding the makeup of the material (carbon fiber) and how it looked stretched out onto the bigger OD cap and the smaller OD of the body. Because of the stretch, the weaves don't 100% match the spacing on both the cap and the body of the pen due to the surface area. I'm guessing an average customer isn't going to be measuring the spacing and the distance using a 10x magnification lenses lol. He has too many fancy tools at his desk and we had nothing better to do...

Another cool thing that I discovered was that while were comparing the weight and makeup of the 1/2" sleeve of plain carbon fiber (sollarcomposite) vs 1/2" black/green (fiberglass, sollarcampsite) vs multiple different carbon fiber twills that he has laying around his desk(In-house General Atomics made stuff :biggrin: ) was that the normal plain 1/2" Sollercomposite carbon fiber is very similar in feel and makeup of the fibers to the stuff that we use in our own Predator XP, B and MQ-9 series of aircrafts. The biggest difference came in when we were comparing the Black/Green 50/50 mix of carbon fiber and fiberglass weave. The carbon fiber was impregnated with some sort of resin to make it so much more stiffer than the plain carbon fiber witch feels like smoother than silk. On the plain carbon fiber sleeve you can literally pull a strand that's probably thinner than hair out while the carbon fiber that was pre treated with resin to give it the same stiffness of the fiberglass was pretty much impossible to separate each strand. We are kind of leading towards the CA glue reacting to the resin used in green fiber glass or the carbon fiber causing the weird color fading. That or my medium CA glue was just plain crappy... I'm going to try to use the CA glue again on just plain carbon fiber and see if I still get the same color fading/washout ghosting look on plain carbon fiber.

Hello

I tried to look for the thread where I explain this before but could not find it quickly so I will try to explain.

I usually make a few blanks at a time so I mix a small batch of Silmar41 resin with the 3 drops per ounce catalyst. I usually use a small dixie cup. This gives me enough resin to both glue the blank and also coat the blank to get ready for casting after at least 24 hours.

It is very simple procedure. I will show you the jig I made to support the blanks for drying and for coating. I first went to Home Depot and bought a bunch of those fiberglass property marker sticks. I then cut them into workable lengths. I then wax them with a car wax so it makes the resin easier to release if they get stuck. (Warning, fiberglass has thin clear strands so be careful not to get them stuck in your hand if you wipe the rods or clean the rods. Wear gloves)

I cut the CF or braiding if doing braiding blanks to size. I mark the inside of the tube with some sort of code so that I know what tube is for what kit. Need to do this if you are mixing kits. I slide the CF sleeve over a rod. I then slide a tube over the rod. I hold the edge of the tube with my thumb and spread the resin all around the tube using one of those flux brushes you buy in bulk from HF or wherever. Always brushing the resin away from the ends of the tube so that none gets inside the tube. (if some does it is always easy to scrape out with a exacto knife later. No big deal) I then slide the tube into the CF sleeve as I am expanding the sleeve. Now I use small tie wraps to sinch the ends to the rod. I keep the tie wraps to the farthest part of the sleeve and not up close to the tube. This lets the sleeve material stretch nicely around the tube. I then put the sleeve tight on the other end and cinch it as well.

After I have those done and set on my rack, I take the same mixed resin and spread an even coat all around these tubes. I keep an eye on them for a few minutes so that there is no big drops forming on the bottom as the resin self levels itself. I keep rotating a little bit till the resin starts to set up. That is all there is to it.

After all set in 24 hours, I prepare to cast. To do this I cut the tie wraps and pull the tubes off the rods. If they do not come free, a slight twist will break them free because of the wax on the rod. I then trim the ends to almost flush with the tube ends, making sure I do not force the sleeve off the ends of the tubes. I then do my vertical casting procedure.

I hope this helps. It is alot more typing than actually doing once you do it. I have been doing this for years and have had no failures. I do not do videos or tutorials so if any questions ask here.

 

[SDTurner]

Hello

I tried to look for the thread where I explain this before but could not find it quickly so I will try to explain.

I usually make a few blanks at a time so I mix a small batch of Silmar41 resin with the 3 drops per ounce catalyst. I usually use a small dixie cup. This gives me enough resin to both glue the blank and also coat the blank to get ready for casting after at least 24 hours.

It is very simple procedure. I will show you the jig I made to support the blanks for drying and for coating. I first went to Home Depot and bought a bunch of those fiberglass property marker sticks. I then cut them into workable lengths. I then wax them with a car wax so it makes the resin easier to release if they get stuck. (Warning, fiberglass has thin clear strands so be careful not to get them stuck in your hand if you wipe the rods or clean the rods. Wear gloves)

I cut the CF or braiding if doing braiding blanks to size. I mark the inside of the tube with some sort of code so that I know what tube is for what kit. Need to do this if you are mixing kits. I slide the CF sleeve over a rod. I then slide a tube over the rod. I hold the edge of the tube with my thumb and spread the resin all around the tube using one of those flux brushes you buy in bulk from HF or wherever. Always brushing the resin away from the ends of the tube so that none gets inside the tube. (if some does it is always easy to scrape out with a exacto knife later. No big deal) I then slide the tube into the CF sleeve as I am expanding the sleeve. Now I use small tie wraps to sinch the ends to the rod. I keep the tie wraps to the farthest part of the sleeve and not up close to the tube. This lets the sleeve material stretch nicely around the tube. I then put the sleeve tight on the other end and cinch it as well.

After I have those done and set on my rack, I take the same mixed resin and spread an even coat all around these tubes. I keep an eye on them for a few minutes so that there is no big drops forming on the bottom as the resin self levels itself. I keep rotating a little bit till the resin starts to set up. That is all there is to it.

After all set in 24 hours, I prepare to cast. To do this I cut the tie wraps and pull the tubes off the rods. If they do not come free, a slight twist will break them free because of the wax on the rod. I then trim the ends to almost flush with the tube ends, making sure I do not force the sleeve off the ends of the tubes. I then do my vertical casting procedure.

I hope this helps. It is alot more typing than actually doing once you do it. I have been doing this for years and have had no failures. I do not do videos or tutorials so if any questions ask here.

Thanks John,

Now I get the whole picture. Before this detailed explanation, I thought you just poured resin over the CF sleeving and let the resin seep into the sleeving down to the tubes and glue the CF to the metal tube once dried.

What I was missing from the picture was that you actually coat the tubes with the mixed resin then slide the CF over the tubes and then on top of the CF you add another layer of resin. I was wondering, is the 2nd layer of resin necessary over the CF after you slide it over the metal tubes? Like what is the purpose of adding a layer of mixed resin over CF when the tubes are already coded with the resin and once you slide the CF over the resin coated tubes and let it dry, shouldn't CF already adhere to the tubes? I was thinking that if you brush over a 2nd layer of resin over the CF... won't that create any bubbles in the weaves of CF? I'm also assuming you do not pre heat the resin in any way (hot water bath) to make it less viscous so it can easily be spread and avoid bubbles. I just got new tubes from Ed @ Exoticblanks so i'll be trying out your method. Hopefully everything works well without me adding a 2nd layer of resin over the CF material if the tubes are coated well.

Thanks for an awesome explanation sir :worship: :bananen_smilies046:

 

[jttheclockman]

Sir I did not know I got Knighted:biggrin::biggrin:


Andy

First the reason I coat the tubes is because I found that the resin will not penetrate all CF such as the ones shown, at all. I also use metal braidings and that too is not loosely woven so the resin does not get in there enough to allow good adhesion.

No I do not heat this portion of the resin because I need it to not harden too fast. I do heat my resin when casting though.

The reason I do the top coating is to eliminate any air bubbles. not create them. When casting CF like shown and also metal braidings they will have a tendency to allow air bubbles form from within all the air spaces on those braidings. Even though you use a pressure pot it will cause a silver looking spot. Doing it this way closes those air gaps so when casting no air bubbles pop up. and yes I still use pressure. Since I have been doing it this way I never had those problems again. Even though I do not heat the resin in this step and use a brush to apply the coat of resin, the layer is thin enough and being it is self leveling itself all air bubbles dissipate.

Now this is the way I do things and you are welcome to try or follow what others tell you which will probably work also. Many ways to get to the finish line. For me this is a tried and proven method. Good luck.