Exoticblanks BAD batch of Accelerator...?

[wiset1]

I recently purchased two containers of accelerator from exoticblanks.com in an attempt to cut the outrageous prices on PSI. Well, the first time I used the accelerator it turned the CA glue all misty and white. Basically clouded up the CA and didn't dry it at all. The CA seemed to remain tacky and had to dry on its own before I could strip everything back down to the wood. Thinking that this was a bad batch I opened up the second one and tried it again with the same results which again required me to strip the CA off the tube. I wrote Exoticblanks about this and to date I've yet to hear back from them which is a little upsetting, so with that being said...does anyone have any idea why this would happen? The Accelerator purchased from PSI has NEVER done this to my CA so why would the one from exoticblanks do it? Anyone else been blown off by exoticblanks not responding???

 

[Smitty37]

Give Ed a chance

I recently purchased two containers of accelerator from exoticblanks.com in an attempt to cut the outrageous prices on PSI. Well, the first time I used the accelerator it turned the CA glue all misty and white. Basically clouded up the CA and didn't dry it at all. The CA seemed to remain tacky and had to dry on its own before I could strip everything back down to the wood. Thinking that this was a bad batch I opened up the second one and tried it again with the same results which again required me to strip the CA off the tube. I wrote Exoticblanks about this and to date I've yet to hear back from them which is a little upsetting, so with that being said...does anyone have any idea why this would happen? The Accelerator purchased from PSI has NEVER done this to my CA so why would the one from exoticblanks do it? Anyone else been blown off by exoticblanks not responding???

Give Ed a chance, he will stand behind what he sells.

 

[witz1976]

Exactly... Ed admitted that he has had issues with his e-mail server, so if you did not get a response that is why. Try PMing him here. Also I believe his accelerator & CA glues comes from Monty (another member here), they are the best!

I wish I could give you an answer with the CA, just curious what wood did you apply it on, and how old is it?

 

[alphageek]

Tim,

I would 2nd the contacting exotics by PMing either Ed (ed4copies) or Dawn (pr_princess). However, you may also want to verify the email address you used with them for contact in that PM. I have a special log that I setup to help debug any email issues they might have. If you used any of the @exoticsblanks.com addresses - there should be a log of your message. I don't see any log of an email from you (unless I'm looking wrong).

Also hopefully Monty will chime in with his experiences. You didn't post what brand and speed of CA - (thin, med, or thick) - which may help as well in debugging this.

 

[Boz]

I would not flame Exotics at this point. I e-mailed them yesterday and did not hear back so there maybe some truth to the notion that that they are having problems with their server. It is a little old school but they do have a fax number on their contact page. You could try that.

 

[PenMan1]

PM Ed or Dawn. That is the easiest way to contact them. I know, first hand, that they stand behind their products.

Secondly, have you tried another glue? This issue could just as easily be the glue as the accelerator. CA glue mixed with accelerator is like a cat, it has a mind of its own and how it behaves depends on its mood. You problem sounds more like old glue than bad accelerator.

In the past, I've had problems with NEW PSI glue not curing properly. In their defense, I am sure they sell big quanties to the masses. That makes it more difficult to keep properly rotated inventory.

Since I started buying glue from Monty, my glue and accelerator issues have disappeared.

 

[greggas]

ditto on everybody else's comments regarding Ed...Have purchased many, many times from him and anyone who spends any time on this site nows how important customer service and PR ( public relations not poly resin) are to him. I'm sure there is a good reason as to why you have not heard back yet.

Regarding the technical portion of your question, assuming that you used the accelerator from Ed with CA that you had from another source, I have had similar issues in the past with using accelerator from one manufacturer with CA from another...not sure why but I know make sure that my CA and accelerator are from the same

 

[IPD_Mrs]

There is also two different types of accelerator. One has about 50% acetone and one around 8% or less. Acetone is also a debonder. If it is cold where you are using it, then that will expand the problem. Personally I will not use the accelerator with high acetone content.

 

[PenMan1]

Regarding the technical portion of your question, assuming that you used the accelerator from Ed with CA that you had from another source, I have had similar issues in the past with using accelerator from one manufacturer with CA from another...not sure why but I know make sure that my CA and accelerator are from the same

I'm not sure if different manufacturers caused the problems I was having or not. But I have decided not to tempt the Pen Gods. I buy my glue and accelerator from the same the manufacturer, the same vendor, at the same time. Why take a chance? I can think of nothing more frustrating than making a beautiful pen, then screwing it up while finishing.

 

[USAFVET98]

Is it possible they were switched and you used debonder or maybe the bottles were mislabeled? I never had a problem with exotics or Montys products. They are top notch in my book. I would also try to reconsider the words "blown off" as I have never seen them do this to anyone. They are fair people and I highly doubt they blew you off. Give them some time to read the message as they probably have a glitch in their system..

 

[aggromere]

I have bought literally dozens of bottles of glue and accelerator, the 16oz ones, (regular not mild) of the brand ed sells and have never had an issue. I would imagine it is very cold in Germany, so maybe the CA is cold, or another brand and old.

I am sure Ed and Dawn will do what ever it takes to make it right.

 

[soligen]

There are variations in CA formulations, so if your CA is a different brand, it may the the issue.

I once mixed brands of CA and accellerator, and it did not work nearly as well. I had to spray about 5 times more accellerator than I needed to when the brands matched. Its not exactly what you are seeing, but it convinced me that mixing brands of CA and Accellerator is probably not a good idea.

 

[Monty]

Tim,
I reiterate what others have said. Give Ed a chance to respond by PM.
I, personally, haven't had any experience with any other brands of CA or accelerator except EZ Bond and have never had the problem you describe. Please post what brand of CA and the thickness (thin, medium or thick). That will help troubleshoot the problem.

 

[livertrans]

I ran out of accelerator in my small spray bottle and grabbed the debonder mistakenly to refill my bottle and ended up with about the same result. I wish the labels were different colors. It is too easy to grab the wrong bottle. Like every has told you give Ed a chance to respond. He will make it right with you. And perhaps your PSI brand ca is at fault.

 

[louie68]

Ed/Dawn will take care of your issue, They are good people and stand behind what they sell.
By handling the issue throught PM first should be the way to go about the problem.
Not this way!!!
"Diplomatic" Business Minded, Goes a long wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
Plus they tend to rememberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Louie56

 

[bruce119]

I will also say you didn't say how much time you gave him to respond. This was a holiday weekend here in the USA last weekend. Email can take some time and with filters and all that spam stuff not 100% reliable. I know Ed is VERY reliable there must be a reason for miscommunication.

Now as to the accelerator I think there are 2 types. I think there is a slower (Mild) and a faster not really sure I use the Standard accelerator. I have never had a problem I use it by the gallon. And the self life is long currently my gal. is going on over 2 years now. The color has darkened but it still functions just fine.

Now I have experienced the CA developing a white powder somewhat as you describe but this is due to application error. If you put the CA on real heavy and try to force it with the accelerator your asking for trouble. If you use to much accelerator (soak it down) your asking for trouble. Also I found that moisture will defiantly cause the white powder like if I try to speed up the cure by blowing on it the moisture from my breath will fog (White powder) the CA. So how high is the humidity there? Have you tried on another surface perhaps there is something in the material you are trying to finish. I would lean toward operator error.

You know accelerator applied directly to a cured CA surface will soften it and when it dries it will be white and powdery. You can also use accelerator as a CA debonder.

These are just my experiences and opinions.

Bruce

 

[penhead]

While waiting for Ed/Dawn to fix their server or email or whatever the problem is...and for them to be incommudicado something must be wrong....

...just wondering, since I don't use excellerator on my CA finishes, does that work for most people..??..not that anything is right/wrong either way with/without...just wondering if I need to try something different..??

 

[renowb]

Ditto on Exotic Blanks customer service! They are the best! They will definitely make it right. I always order from them and will do so in the future. I know it is aggravating not hearing from them, but when site problems occur, it's not their fault. Also, I use Monty's ca consistently and have never had a problem.

 

[johncrane]

I agree with Bruce! on this one, moisture will cloud your finish,

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I've had white misting, clouding, etc. numerous times. I don't know what the reason is, but it's one of many variables....I don't know that the accelerator has much to do with it, personally...

Moisture content, amount of CA being 'flashed' and amount of accelerator used seem to the be the variables in my experience. If I spray a big puddle of CA with accelerator, it usually turns white.

That being said, send ed4copies (Exotic Blanks) a PM on this site, and he'll respond. His email is rather wonky on his website, I believe.

And please, let's not turn this into a twenty-page pile-on, ok?

 

[TBCbushings]

They will fix it

 

[leestoresund]

Ed and Dawn have never failed to respond. With all of these posts on this thread and they have not chimed in I feel pretty certain that they are not receiving the message.
A couple of weeks ago they did not respond to me for2-3 days and it turned out they were out of town.
Let's face it, this is not a life or death situation, merely an inconvenience.
To trash someone over a few bucks is pretty ridiculous.
Just my $.03.

Lee

 

[ThomJ]

What Bruce said

Senor Ed is great to deal with, patience

I had an issue with the CA foaming up white, my problem was heavy CA, and over application of accelerator

 

[ed4copies]

Well, here's the story. (Andrew, I don't mind 20 page pile ons---)

I received your message, Tim---on Monday. But I had no answer. Here is my "thought pattern":

The CA accelerant we sell comes from Monty, who has sold hundreds of bottles, so he's my "expert", of sorts.
But, before I went to him with this, I would ask what CA you were using---you pointed out you used to use PSI accelerant, so I "guessed" you were using PSI CA. Which is, apparently, a private label product. Thus, we would not be able to readily identify the source, so compatibility issues could not be resolved without that information.

Additionally, from my own experience (as many here have also said), doing a CA finish and using accelerrant, can result in problems, seemingly based on temperature and humidity conditions. None of this information is in the email you sent, but I understand you were looking to me for a simple answer. I don't believe there IS a simple answer.

So, that's why I had not replied yet. I expected to take some time over the weekend and research this by finding old threads on this (IAP) website and sending you a thorough answer. I believe this thread does a better job than I would have.

The question remains without a definitive answer. If you want to return the accelerant, we would give you a refund, certainly. Or, you may want to try our CA and see if it IS a compatibility issue.

So, thanks for starting the thread----Monty's entry confirms that this is not a "known problem", so we are left to experiment to determine a solution.

We are willing to assist you in any way you deem reasonable.

Thanks to all for your replies and don't stop NOW!!!!

Ed

 

[wiset1]

Ed and Forum

Without throwing gas on the fire here I'll address the issues and perhaps that will help answer the questions about what happened since that's what I'm really looking for.

* CA used was (E-Z Bond Medium CA) bought from Exotics
* Accelerator used was (E-Z Bond Accelerator) bought from Exotics

I had been using the same CA glue all day long for other pens while using the accelerator purchased from PSI. This combo of the two didn't pose an issue, so when the bottle of PSI accelerator ran dry I used the E-Z bond brand accelerator along with the E-Z bond Medium CA glue. This combo resulted in the problem noted in the original post.

I am sorry that so many fellow turners feel I have done wrong by posting this to an open forum; however, I was not aware that Ed was having issues with his server. Ed has always done right by me when purchasing blanks from the site and has always kept me as a customer based on his customer service and the free blanks. My request for help was posted through the site using the contact link.

Ed, I will contact you through PM. Being new to turning I had no idea that Members of the forum ran the site and with that being said I didn't know who to contact via PM. Now I know

 

[terryf]

Tim

I also had clouding and when I tried different types of CA I found I had varying degrees of clouding with two giving none at all, so those are the two I use now.

Have you tried other CA's?

 

[Nick]

Now that is true customer service by far on Ed's part. IMHO one should think a problem through before complaining to the vendor. Ed and Dawn always will respond to a customer problem (remember they are busy too) and come up with an answer to satisfy their customer. You can count on them for top line service.
Respectfully
Nick

 

[wiset1]

Terry,

I've only ever used PSI brand CA until I purchased the E-Z bond glues. I really liked the finish I got from the E-Z bond, but the mixture of the accelerator posed a problem. Now I'm just doing a layer of CA and letting it air dry before doing another layer.

Truth be told, this was a minor issue and I thought asking for help in the forum would help resolve the matter. At this point the feedback has become bloated and taken on a life of its own which makes me think twice about posting here again.

I serve my country proudly while being stationed overseas and turning pens is a way to keep focus on the mission when I make it back to work. Pulling hair and scratching eyes on an open forum about hurt feelings is something I can do without so I'm thinking it's best to resolve matters through PM's and keep my pens to myself.

 

[Monty]

Tim,
I seem to be the go to guy for CA problems here and Ed get his CA supplies from me. Now that I know you were using both EZ Bond glue and CA, this makes it a little more puzzling. All I use is EZ Bond products and the worst I've ever had happen is white spots or "ghosting" when the wood has too much moisture content.
In order to help solve the problem, would you please post the type of wood you were using along with a step by step narration of how you applied the glue and accelerator? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if I can reproduce the same bad results, then we will know where the problem lies and how to correct it.

 

[ed4copies]

Without throwing gas on the fire here I'll address the issues and perhaps that will help answer the questions about what happened since that's what I'm really looking for.

* CA used was (E-Z Bond Medium CA) bought from Exotics
* Accelerator used was (E-Z Bond Accelerator) bought from Exotics

I had been using the same CA glue all day long for other pens while using the accelerator purchased from PSI. This combo of the two didn't pose an issue, so when the bottle of PSI accelerator ran dry I used the E-Z bond brand accelerator along with the E-Z bond Medium CA glue. This combo resulted in the problem noted in the original post.

I am sorry that so many fellow turners feel I have done wrong by posting this to an open forum; however, I was not aware that Ed was having issues with his server. Ed has always done right by me when purchasing blanks from the site and has always kept me as a customer based on his customer service and the free blanks. My request for help was posted through the site using the contact link.

Ed, I will contact you through PM. Being new to turning I had no idea that Members of the forum ran the site and with that being said I didn't know who to contact via PM. Now I know

Hey Tim---I don't fault you at all for using the IAP for an answer!!! And I don't feel "attacked" when someone looks for good information I have failed to timely provide.

I have gotten a couple PM's from friends advising me, properly, that I should have replied to you. I apologize for not doing so--and I will reply to everyone the first time I read an email in the future. (Though the reply MAY just say I have to research the problem, but at least it will let you know I am aware of it).

 

[alphageek]

Without throwing gas on the fire here I'll address the issues and perhaps that will help answer the questions about what happened since that's what I'm really looking for.

* CA used was (E-Z Bond Medium CA) bought from Exotics
* Accelerator used was (E-Z Bond Accelerator) bought from Exotics

I had been using the same CA glue all day long for other pens while using the accelerator purchased from PSI. This combo of the two didn't pose an issue, so when the bottle of PSI accelerator ran dry I used the E-Z bond brand accelerator along with the E-Z bond Medium CA glue. This combo resulted in the problem noted in the original post.

I am sorry that so many fellow turners feel I have done wrong by posting this to an open forum; however, I was not aware that Ed was having issues with his server. Ed has always done right by me when purchasing blanks from the site and has always kept me as a customer based on his customer service and the free blanks. My request for help was posted through the site using the contact link.

Ed, I will contact you through PM. Being new to turning I had no idea that Members of the forum ran the site and with that being said I didn't know who to contact via PM. Now I know

Glad you got more information out here.. Don't feel bad about public posting - I know Ed likes sharing information, so he's ok with things and would like to know if there is an issue. This site is full of great people, and I know sometimes any negative post can lead to our members "protecting" those being posted about.

As for email problems, we don't think there is any at this point, but email is not a 'guaranteed' delivery service. Too many points of failure and blocking possibilities. Even if it was received, there is times a reply can be lost.

As for your glue/CA issue - I have to say thats really weird as thats a combination many have used... Personally, I have a hard time using acceleration without things "turning white", but as for not hardening thats really strange? I wonder if something can happen to mess it up in transit (freezing??)

 

[ed4copies]

Now, on to the problem.

Using our glue and our accelerator has always worked FOR ME (which is NOT saying it should work for you!!!)

So, I don't know what to suggest. I used to use an aerosol accelerator. The company that made it went out of business, so I asked Monty to let me try his. It worked great, so I started using it.

I can "suggest" that my method is to keep the blank turning on the lathe (I use about 2300 rpm, don't know if it matters) and spray the plunger from about a foot away. What hits the blank is a fine mist, at that distance.

I know what you are talking about, with foaming--I have had it happen with other CA and accelerators, but the EZ Bond has always worked, for me.

Again, if you want to return for credit, I am "fine" with that---I can use yours in my shop (NO, everyone, we WON'T resell it---it is open!!) And I wish I could give you a better answer.

PM me, if you like, or continue our conversation here---I don't want to hide a thing---besides we may find others are having the problem, as well by making the discussion public----I'm "good with that"!!!

 

[jkeithrussell]

Here's my best guess. Maybe you were using an aerosol accelerator from PSI to spray the blank after applying CA to speed up the curing process. The accelerator that Monty sells through Exotic Blanks comes in a small pump bottle. It does not come out in a fine mist, but in a spray like hair spray. If you use it to spray the blank, you get bigger droplets. My guess is that the CA on your blank was still wet, and the bigger drops of CA reacted differently than you were experiencing with the aerosol can.

Here's a way to test it. Spray a little of the accelerator from the pump bottle onto a paper towel and wipe down the blank before applying CA. Apply CA, wait a couple of seconds, and spray more accelerator on the paper towel, wipe down the blank, and repeat. You can use some pressure when applying the accelerant this way, and it will smooth out the CA.

 

[G1Pens]

Tim,

I am a newbie here and have read all the posts with interest. In the process I have learned a lot about the use of CA, but more importantly, I have learned that this IS the place to come with issues and problem, whether it is instructional needs, advice, material or equipment problem or vendor issues.

I think where you "erred" was in the last sentence of your post. "Anyone else been blown off by exoticblanks not responding???". I don't know Ed, I have purchased from him several times with no problems. But, I know from reading posts on this forum for the last few months, that the users here think very highly of Ed. I think if you had just worded that last sentence a little differently you would not feel so "attacked". Personally, I don't think you meant it to sound as confrontational as it did.

This forum is an excellent place to come and get questions answered. I have learned a lot here and will continue to do so. I hope you do the same.

 

[john l graham]

I hope and pray that my combination of CA and Accel don't go out of business. It took me forever to figure out the process I use. I would not want to have to relearn the complexities involved with the finish. With the extreme changes in temp and humidity here I always wonder if a problem will arise. Thanks to all for the advise here on IAP. I will refrain from blowing on my finish!

 

[wiset1]

Okay, step by step

-Blank is on the lathe and already sanded to grit.
-Using a VS lathe I had it turned down to the lowest setting
-Using a single piece of folded papertowel I applied a layer thin CA
-I always allow this first layer of CA to air dry
-30 minutes later I followed the same steps, but used Medium E-Z bond CA
-With the lathe on at the lowest speed I spray the accelerator about 3 squirts
-At this time I notice the Cocobolo blank fogging over
-I turn off the lathe and touch the blank to see what the problem is
-I pull my finger free of the blank and notice that the blank is tacky

This is the basic steps. It should also be noted that I had just finished 3 pens using the same method without issue when using the Medium CA and the PSI accelerator. The issue happened when I moved over to the E-Z bond brand accelerator. I have no idea where the problem is and I'm sure it's something minor that will be resolved in time. Those of you who know me and have seen my pens know that I have a firm grasp on how to do a CA finish so this was odd for me to see.

 

[wiset1]

Here's my best guess. Maybe you were using an aerosol accelerator from PSI to spray the blank after applying CA to speed up the curing process. The accelerator that Monty sells through Exotic Blanks comes in a small pump bottle. It does not come out in a fine mist, but in a spray like hair spray. If you use it to spray the blank, you get bigger droplets. My guess is that the CA on your blank was still wet, and the bigger drops of CA reacted differently than you were experiencing with the aerosol can.

Here's a way to test it. Spray a little of the accelerator from the pump bottle onto a paper towel and wipe down the blank before applying CA. Apply CA, wait a couple of seconds, and spray more accelerator on the paper towel, wipe down the blank, and repeat. You can use some pressure when applying the accelerant this way, and it will smooth out the CA.

PSI accelerator is in a spray pump as well and that's why I figured it was an quick swap matching my needs. I'm sure this combo works a thousand times, but for some reason it reacted on mine. While it may be an isolated matter I would like to figure out what happened so I don't do it again.

Thank you

 

[Russianwolf]

COCOBOLO!!!!!!!

The oils in Cocobolo will often have a reaction with CA. Similar for all the Dalbergia Species (Rosewoods).

 

[Phunky_2003]

Tim,

Have you by any chance tried to use this CA and Accelerator on another blank? Cocobolo is known to cause problems with CA finishes.

 

[danroggensee]

Here is my answer to you problem. Did you just poor the ez accelerator into the same spraypump that you used with the other accelerator that could be the problem they do not mix well. it happen to me that way.

Dan