Ditching the center band

[Firefyter-emt]

This is just for the Churchill / El-Grande (& Streamline) kits.

This is my favorite kit design due to the size vs weight and the feel of the nib holder. My main complaint is the look of some of the parts of the kit. The Churchill is nice as the bands flow nice, but with the El-Grande they do not, in fact with some options on center band the band on the cap is changed but not the one on the post end!!

Now my favorite has become the Streamline version now that I have done a couple, I love the smaller profile of the clip end (another issue with the El-Grande's "top hat". I also really like the very simple ring at the post end. However, the centerband appears to of come straight out of a box of Cracker Jacks!!

Well tonight I decided to give it a shot at removing the centerband. On this kit you have to keep the center band because it's your thread for the cap. I suppose I could glue the threads inside the tube and hope they hold, but I am not a huge fan of most wood centerbands and wanted a better solution. The center band slides right off to reveal a raised section that look far too much to be able to remove and not ruin the entire part.

I held the coupler gently between centers and using a freshly sharpened parting tool I removed the material while checking with calipers.

Here you can see the before and after

and this is the new center band and one with the "prize inside" centerband.

So far so good, the part feels a lot firmer than I thought it would and I gave it a light pass with sandpaper so it has a better bite when glued in. The Streamline kit is perfect for this mod because the cap tubes are 2 sizes. This allows me to just epoxy the smaller cap tube in 1/4" further up in the blank and retain the original finished length. You could leave 1/4" of wood showing at the centerband end of the other kits, but I would leave a step on the centerband roughly the diameter of the outside of the tube to help fill the gap when pressed togather.

I will post photos when I am done, this kit is going on the only piece of oak Rappahancock crib dam wood that I have. It's a really dark color so I can not wait to finish it off.

 

[txbatons]

I'm hooked. I'm looking forward to seeing the pics of the finished product, since I've never worked with the Churchill kits and am having a difficult time envisioning the difference in length after cutting the band like this.

 

[Firefyter-emt]

The length will be the same, however there will be 1/4" more wood showing above the center band which could give the appearance of a longer cap. At this time I am not 100% sure just how much length must be there to clear the FP nib I plan to install the centerband and the check to see if I can loose maybe an extra 1/8" or so..

 

[jtate]

Once you put the refurb'ed part into the cap tube, with the finial holder inside the top part of the cap tube, the space inside the cap tube will be a lot shorter. Will the nib still have room in there without hitting the end when you screw the cap on?

A cap that's too short will ruin a fountain pen nib.

Can't wait for your measurements so I can try cutting all this away on mine too. Lazy, aren't I? I guess I could measure it myself.

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by jtate
<br />Once you put the refurb'ed part into the cap tube, with the finial holder inside the top part of the cap tube, the space inside the cap tube will be a lot shorter. Will the nib still have room in there without hitting the end when you screw the cap on?

A cap that's too short will ruin a fountain pen nib.

Can't wait for your measurements so I can try cutting all this away on mine too. Lazy, aren't I? I guess I could measure it myself.

Julia,

Nothing wrong with lazy. Just wait until Lee posts his "expletives deleted" in the next few days and he will TELL you how bent the nib is and, therefore, the proper dimension to avoid bending!!!

BTDT (different projects tho'-I DON'T know the answer to this one, yet.)[][]

 

[Firefyter-emt]

No, if you read my last paragraph, you will note where I say that due to the two tube design of the Streamline I am able to epoxy the smaller tube higher in the blank. The tubes in this cap do not touch each other so making up the missing length is easily taken care of. (Although I did say 1/8" and mean 1/4".. I have to go edit that) [:I] So this mod is best suited to the Streamline kit because of the way you can put the tubes in.

On a normal El-Grande, the blank itslef would need to be longer than the tube, but not by much. I measured the inside of a cap and its 2.032" The pen itself that is inside the cap (with a little extra) is 1.75" while the centerband is .250" So without any changes its way too close for comfort. If I left the wood proud by .250" at the centerband I can turn the centerband itself down to fill the gap where the tube is missing and it will be fine once all put togather.

For this, I would turn the "step" down to the outside diameter of the tube which when pressed in, with a little glue on the wood "outside" of the tube, would act much as the brass tube when glued in and should be as strong as it would be normaly. I do think that a slight sanding to the centerband would be in order so that it is pressed in easy and can rely on the glue bond a bit more so there is less stress on the blank when pressing it togather.

 

[ed4copies]

You see, planning is something I RARELY do, until AFTER I have failed.

YOUR plan sounds good, hope it works!!!!!!!!!!![][][]

 

[bjackman]

Lee,
We seem to think alike in a lot of ways.... be careful!!! [}]
I've been doing the same thing on E.G's but I mount the part of the coupler that slips up into the tube in my beall chuck to turn down/modify the coupler.
You can also turn off the shoulder completely, recess the coupler into the tube and add your own CB.

 

[Firefyter-emt]

Bill, how do you attach the centerband to the blank and work the coupler? Do you leave a bit of a step on the coupler to keep it in once place?

 

[bjackman]

I part back the blank so there is at least some brass tube for the cb to attach to, but usually it hangs out over the tube some to keep enough space up in the cap for the nib, as you were questioned on above.
I have done it turning the coupler dead straight and leaving just a little (very little) lip on the end, not so much for keeping it in place, but for aesthetics. To help in Hiding the tube and inside of the cb wood. It's all held in place there with epoxy. No press fitting for me on this closed end stuff, all slip fits epoxied in place. I have used epoxy colored with black to help hide the tube, etc also. This method was used on this pen:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23111
and on this one as well:
http://www.penmakersguild.com/gallery.php?gallery=worksc&page=97

hope this helps.

oh, forgot to mention. In the Beall you can also play with the length, shape, depth, etc of the end where the threads start. I don't really like how far the section trim ring goes up into the coupler, so I take off a bit of it so it doesn't quite seat in so far. Kindof like adjusting the length of your suit jacket sleeve so a little more or less of your white shirtsleeve shows or doesn't show. Your setup works great for dealing with the middle porion of the coupler but it would get tricky when you start to play at the open end resting on your live center.

Ok, everytime I read my post I think of something I didn't say... [)]
Also, if you trim into the shoulder a little, making it a thinner black line than what the stock kit shows you might find you are ok still using the metal band. It really changes the look for me. Instead of a thick black line followed by an almost as thick line from the metal band. a slim black line next to the metal band really helps the look. jmnsho, ymmv, etc, etc.
ok, I'm done editing....again.

 

[Firefyter-emt]

Yea, that would get a bit iffy between centers!

I know what you mean about taking down just some of the plastic and keeping the ring, but I am not fond of the entire band design.

I just took a break from my metal lathe, I am making a steel bushing for the cap final end for the Streamline version. The other three are the same as the normal El-Grande so I want a metal bushing instead of a Corian one. I might make the other bushings one of these days, where I turn between centers, the 60 degree socket is much better than the normal bushing. I am making them solid as I have no need for a thru hole. I make a nice 60 degree tailstock cennter hole in the stock and turn it down. The only problem with doing it this way is I have to "dig out" the tube end from the steel to step the stock down to size. Lot's of waste this way, but cheaper and better than buying a set of bushings!

Edit: Thought I would add a photo.