Concentric?

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Does anyone every wonder if your bushings are actually concentric? My latest blank has an obvious problem, that even with my poor eyesight, is
evident. The wood is not concentric with the barrell....maybe my arthritis lets the tool wobble with the variatins of wood hardness, I don't think my tailstock is too tight & I don't think my mandrell is bent...any other ideas?
 

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OLDMAN5050

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Check the mandrel. use a micrometer to check the bushings, turn between centers........A solution to the problem.......
 

its_virgil

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Have those same bushings produced acceptable pens? If so, bushings don't, suddenly, become non-concentric. Sanding can cause a non-concentric pen barrel because of grain structure and orientation. Wood can be removed from one side faster than on the opposite side. Figure out what the problem is. You've had some suggestions and will get more.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 

sbell111

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I have never actually seen non-concentric bushings. I believe that this problem is typically caused by setup issues such as overtightening the tailstock. The only way that I can envision the bushings actually causing this problem is if they were a sloppy fit.

That being said, you san easily visualize how non-concentric the blank is. If this was caused by your bushings being non-concentric, you would be able to see the problem with them.
 

lorbay

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Does anyone every wonder if your bushings are actually concentric? My latest blank has an obvious problem, that even with my poor eyesight, is
evident. The wood is not concentric with the barrell....maybe my arthritis lets the tool wobble with the variatins of wood hardness, I don't think my tailstock is too tight & I don't think my mandrell is bent...any other ideas?

Use the bushings to get you close then use calipers and check you components.
Quite a few of the bushings you buy are not round, except the ones you buy from Johnnycnc. I took a set out of the package last week and they were not round.

Lin.
 
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Haynie

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I have had one bushing that was not concentric. I checked it using my metal lathe and tossed it . All others have been fine. My concentric issues come from the mandrel I was using.
 

Sandy H.

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I had the exact same problem and researched it on the forum. There are a lot of good tips, but one struck me as kind of crazy. They said make sure not to tighten the knurled brass nut on the end of the mandrel too hard, as that could cause problems.

I checked headstock and tailstock alignment - good.
I checked for mandrel bend - 0.002". Straightened to 0.001".
I checked that my live center was truly 60deg - nope. Bought a 60 deg center.

So, I go off on my merry way and turn another pen just as completely out of concentric as the previous ones. Hmm.

The only thing I didn't deal with was the brass nut tightness. So:

I assembled another pen on the mandrel, measured the runout at the center bushing with the nut barely tightened. 0.002". I tightened the nut snug, but not crazy tight. 0.005". I tightened it white knuckle tight. 0.015". Yikes - the nutty guy (just kidding) who said don't over tighten the nut was right. But why???

I proceeded to check a number of things and to make a long story slightly less long, it was the squareness of the end on my blanks. I had been hand aligning the blank on the drill press using a pen mill to cut the ends, figuring it was accurate enough. It wasn't. I rigged up some V-blocks to hold the pen blank securely and drilled with the pen mill and got much better results. Now I can tighten the brass nut down like crazy and get 0.002-0.004" runout at the bushing max. My pens now don't turn off center.

I think the key issue here is that everyone does things a little different. If you have a dial indicator and magnetic base, you can duplicate my experiment easily and determine if that's your issue. If so, the simple solution is to improve the squareness of the end cuts on your blank. Using a pen mill with the guide reamer and holding carelessly was not satisfactory for me.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll solve it.

Sandy.
 

Janster

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..also, make sure the "tube" does not have ANY glue remenents in the interior as this will cause that end of the tube to be OFF when you insert the bushings. IF you do not have the ends of the blank SQUARE that too will cauce out of round as the bushing will not flush up to the tube. Be well............Jan
 

Dalecamino

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I agree with Don. This has been discussed MANY times over the years. What's one more time for a new member? This has also been referred to as OOR (OUT OF Round) I have always had better luck with Bushings from John Goodin (johnnycnc) at penturnersproducts.com John is a member here on IAP.

There has already been good advice given, and as Don says, there will be more. MY .02 cents
 

ed4copies

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Put the bushings on your mandrel, with no tubes on them, turn on the lathe.

If it looks like they are wobbling (and, yes, I have seen it), they are not drilled in the center.

If you use the same bushings to turn between centers, you will be non-concentric there, too.
 

Paul in OKC

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My machinist anal-ness gets me every time this comes up. there is good info above. Biggest 2 things I have come across with this, besides what Don said about grain structure, (1) is live center not being 60 degrees. (Generally the ones that come with the wood lathes are not, they are more 'pointy' to poke into the end of a block to turn.)
(2) Blanks not being square on the end to the tube will cause them to 'skew' a bit when tightening the nut. Head-tail alignment a moot point in my book, unless on a metal lathe (then you get taper from end to end). Slight offset here does not cause the issue. Out of concentric bushings are a pain, but will not cause that in the turned pen. Think about it. The only way it would is if you can move your tool in and out as fast as the 'lope' in the bushing as it spins. You will get over size barrel on the end, or dull tools from cutting the bushing. Just my .02
 

randyrls

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That being said, you can easily visualize how non-concentric the blank is. If this was caused by your bushings being non-concentric, you would be able to see the problem with them.

Steve; Yes, Assemble the bushing and barrel, twist the bushing 90 degrees, and see if the barrel matches the bushings, twist another 90 degrees and check again.

Phillip; Mount the mandrel on the lathe and set the speed to about 500 RPM. Hold a turning tool at both ends of the shaft portion, CAREFULLY lay the shaft of a turning tool across the bushing and check for vibration. If you detect any vibration, find and fix the cause before proceeding further.
 

sbell111

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The only thing I didn't deal with was the brass nut tightness. So:

I assembled another pen on the mandrel, measured the runout at the center bushing with the nut barely tightened. 0.002". I tightened the nut snug, but not crazy tight. 0.005". I tightened it white knuckle tight. 0.015". Yikes - the nutty guy (just kidding) who said don't over tighten the nut was right. But why???
This is how I look at it:

Imagine that the total combined length of the bushings and blank to be turned is 4 inches. If you just snug the brass nut, then the distance being 'snugged' is 4 inches. If you tighten down that nut further, then you must be decreasing this 'snugged' distance because the nut is traveling down it's threads. The only way that this distance can be decreased is if the length of your pen blank actually decreases (which would never be good) or if the bushings and blank are flexing on the mandrel to allow for it's decreased 'snugged' length. This flex is resulting in the non-concentric issue.
 

avbill

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this came at the right time for me!

I turn cbc and I get a non-concentric get like the photo.

i've checked the headstock & tail.
I do tighten the tail stock down quite a bit. - need to realize i do not have to.
i have two 60 degree live center & i get it on both.

(2) Blanks not being square on the end to the tube will cause them to 'skew' a bit when tightening the nut. need to check

I'm only out 0.0001 of a inch as before i was 0.0006
 
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