Cebloplast, Aluminum, and Ebonite

[mredburn]

The m7.9 x .6 would leave you 1mm total wall thickness or .5 each side for a roller ball nib to F/p adapter. Thats about .020 plus the threads. The Heritance 8.4 x.5 would leave 1.4mm or .7 each side apx .028 wall thickness plus the thread. if you drilled the adapter for a .250 hole If you used a "C or "D" drill bit you could add a couple more thousand. The Meister nib and bock nibs in number 5 size possibly could be done if you threaded where the body of the feed is for the rollerball adapter and the refill would just slide through the hole for the 6.5 threads. I will have to do some dimensioned drawings to see if there is enough wall thicknes left for the rollerball adapter to work in that scenario

 

[Timebandit]

I'm going to ask a stupid question here. I thought I understood what you guys were asking/talking about when you first started talking about FP/RB conversions. But now I'm not so sure.

I'm not sure I understand the problem I guess. If you want an FP grip, you would just make one. The only consideration would be, for example, on this pen, that the grip to barrel threads were 9 x.75. So...

Are you guys talking about combining the FP and RB steps and threads in one grip section? And that grip section could be converted back and forth between the two?

I'll see what you you guys say before I ask anything else stupid...

Mike

Like Mike said Mike, you are just elongating the nose cone( and matching the threads of whatever feed housing you use) so that they are identical, and you can unscrew the nose cone and screw in the feed housing. Wala!! Instant conversion, with the same front section, not 2 separate ones.

The m7.9 x .6 would leave you 1mm total wall thickness or .5 each side for a roller ball nib to F/p adapter. Thats about .020 plus the threads. The Heritance 8.4 x.5 would leave 1.4mm or .7 each side apx .028 wall thickness plus the thread. if you drilled the adapter for a .250 hole If you used a "C or "D" drill bit you could add a couple more thousand. The Meister nib and bock nibs in number 5 size possibly could be done if you threaded where the body of the feed is for the rollerball adapter and the refill would just slide through the hole for the 6.5 threads. I will have to do some dimensioned drawings to see if there is enough wall thickness left for the rollerball adapter to work in that scenario

I dont think it will work with the smaller #5 feed housings, they are pretty much the size the the rollerball refill. This will definitely work with the #6 as the nose cone threaded section would have to be no thinner than the feed housing itself. Ive pretty much worked it out for the #6 Bock. Just need to match the threads and its doable. Heritance would be easier as the feed housing on these is huge.

 

[bitshird]

Boy I guess this puts me in a strange category, I like the Ebonite front section, one thing would be the tactile difference, and I also like the contrast.
This is one of the nicest pens I've seen in a while. But I haven't spent a lot of time looking lately too busy trying to keep computers running.
I've done a few Cebloplast pens, and it's one of my favorite plastics, I appreciate the difficulty in drilling, and threading and I hope if and when I try a kitless it looks any where near this good.

 

[Andrew_K99]

If I am following along correctly, is the concept to build a section that would fit a fountain pen feed assembly and then make a roller ball nose cone assembly that would fit into the same FP section and screw into place?

If this is correct ... the RB to FP change wouldn't be an issue, but the FP to RB change would be messy and likely prevent you from doing it again. This also seems like a lot more work then it would be to make two similar sections, one for a FP and one for a RB. Similar to what George did in this thread http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/my-convertable-88309/

AK

 

[bluwolf]

Okay... Let me try this another way. From the daily user's point of view. Why would I want to fuss with the wet nib and it's tiny little threads? Then mess with the converter on the other side. Set aside these parts that, I assume, are at least partially wet with ink. Then mess with some more small rollerball parts and slide the refill through, again I assume, the ink wet hole of the grip?

It seems it would be much quicker, cleaner, and easier to unscrew the whole FP assembly, grip and all, from the barrel, intact, that I could just set aside. Then slide in a refill and screw on another complete grip and nose cone. What am I missing?

Mike

 

[bluwolf]

If I am following along correctly, is the concept to build a section that would fit a fountain pen feed assembly and then make a roller ball nose cone assembly that would fit into the same FP section and screw into place?

If this is correct ... the RB to FP change wouldn't be an issue, but the FP to RB change would be messy and likely prevent you from doing it again. This also seems like a lot more work then it would be to make two similar sections, one for a FP and one for a RB. Similar to what George did in this thread http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/my-convertable-88309/

AK

Exactly! You slid in your post just before I did. I assumed I was missing something hugely obvious here, and maybe I am. But at least I don't feel like the only one now:biggrin:

Mike

 

[Andrew_K99]

Exactly! You slid in your post just before I did. I assumed I was missing something hugely obvious here, and maybe I am. But at least I don't feel like the only one now:biggrin:

Mike

They say great minds think alike ... though that won't mean we're correct :bulgy-eyes:

 

[Timebandit]

You are both right in a certain situation. Mike in your case, where most of your stuff in one color(aluminum)or combination of a couple different materials, this might not be the best for you. You would do best to just make a different section, just like a pen kit pen, and just switch out the whole front section(rollerball/fountain) as needed. But, if you are like me and make most of your sections from the same materials as the barrel and cap of the pen, and most likely have some sort of grain match or lining up to do, if i made a separate rollerball section, there is no chance of me getting the new second section to line up properly and look grain matched. So to solve this, you do what me and Mike are suggesting. You just make a rollerball feed housing(this is what i will call it) that just replaces the existing fountain pen feed housing. Simple solution to a problem. In your case there is no problem, so you can just do the separate front section.

Edit: And Andrew, in Georges case, he uses black section for all of his pens, so there is no issue with hin just making the new front section as well.

 

[bluwolf]

You are both right in a certain situation. Mike in your case, where most of your stuff in one color(aluminum)or combination of a couple different materials, this might not be the best for you. You would do best to just make a different section, just like a pen kit pen, and just switch out the whole front section(rollerball/fountain) as needed. But, if you are like me and make most of your sections from the same materials as the barrel and cap of the pen, and most likely have some sort of grain match or lining up to do, if i made a separate rollerball section, there is no chance of me getting the new second section to line up properly and look grain matched. So to solve this, you do what me and Mike are suggesting. You just make a rollerball feed housing(this is what i will call it) that just replaces the existing fountain pen feed housing. Simple solution to a problem. In your case there is no problem, so you can just do the separate front section.

Edit: And Andrew, in Georges case, he uses black section for all of his pens, so there is no issue with hin just making the new front section as well.

Well, two things. First, if your section is coming out of the cap threads how much do you really need to worry about grain matching? Meaning with all the threading could you really be able to tell if the grain aligns or not?

Second, and more importantly at least to me, this doesn't address the messy switch for the owner of the pen. This was my initial problem with the concept.

I would think that if someone bought the pen because this was one of the major selling points, then got it home and realized he was going to make a mess every time he wanted to switch he would not be a happy camper. I guess I still don't get it...

Mike

 

[IPD_Mr]

See I wasn't thinking of it to be swapable for the customer. I was thinking about for selling purposes. Imagine being at a show and a customer oggles the pen put it is a RB and they only want a FP. Problem solved in a matter of minutes. Yes I have had this happen on several occasions. For me this would be a selling tool rather than a customer option.

 

[mredburn]

Although it is plausable I agree on Mike Roux with this one. Unless you find away to pull the entire feed assembly and ink suppply out without having to dissassemble the pen, and seperate the ink supply from the feed assembl to remove the ink it will be a novelty that is cumberson to the owner.

 

[Andrew_K99]

Justin makes a great point about lining up the pattern, and Mike notes that the intent (or at least his intent) isn't that the pen is convertable after the sale.

Taking both these into consideration and making a pen that could be changed easily at the point of sale could be a very handy sales pitch.

I think I'd follow Georges lead though and use multiple black sections for simplicity.

AK

 

[Curly]

I see a possible solution by having one outer sleeve that you switch with two or more section types. Thus giving you a sleeve that matches the barrel and cap while giving you the interchangeability without needing to disassemble the inky bits of each. Unscrew the sleeve from the section. Unscrew the section from the barrel. Get the other section and reverse the process.

 

[Timebandit]

You are both right in a certain situation. Mike in your case, where most of your stuff in one color(aluminum)or combination of a couple different materials, this might not be the best for you. You would do best to just make a different section, just like a pen kit pen, and just switch out the whole front section(rollerball/fountain) as needed. But, if you are like me and make most of your sections from the same materials as the barrel and cap of the pen, and most likely have some sort of grain match or lining up to do, if i made a separate rollerball section, there is no chance of me getting the new second section to line up properly and look grain matched. So to solve this, you do what me and Mike are suggesting. You just make a rollerball feed housing(this is what i will call it) that just replaces the existing fountain pen feed housing. Simple solution to a problem. In your case there is no problem, so you can just do the separate front section.

Edit: And Andrew, in Georges case, he uses black section for all of his pens, so there is no issue with hin just making the new front section as well.

Well, two things. First, if your section is coming out of the cap threads how much do you really need to worry about grain matching? Meaning with all the threading could you really be able to tell if the grain aligns or not?

Second, and more importantly at least to me, this doesn't address the messy switch for the owner of the pen. This was my initial problem with the concept.

I would think that if someone bought the pen because this was one of the major selling points, then got it home and realized he was going to make a mess every time he wanted to switch he would not be a happy camper. I guess I still don't get it...

Mike

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/red-stripe-89081/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/bespoke-rose-swirl-89474/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/brown-ripple-88483/

If you use materials like this, there is lots of grain to match. I dont use many, if any most of the time, solid colors, so this is why the grain is important to me. As for the switching of the ink delivery. Im not thinking im sitting here writing with a fountain pen and suddenly decide i want to write with a rollerball for a few minutes and switch back. Im thinking i really love the way this pen feels in my hand and its my favorits pen. I want to travel with it, but it usually burps some ink on the plane and i also dont want to deal with taking a bottle of my favorite ink with me, but i dont want to leave my favorite pen behind. So, i just switch it to a rollerball and use it like that until i get back from my trip. I have a favorite pen that i like to write with. This would be a novelty, not a daily switch out kind of thing. i was also thinking along the same lines as Mike, at the point of sale. It depends on who you plan to market to. Like you said, you havent ever made a fountain pen, so you arent selling to the same people. To a fountain pen person, being able to stilll use their favorite pen(minus the fountain in delivery)any where they go could be a plus.

See I wasn't thinking of it to be swapable for the customer. I was thinking about for selling purposes. Imagine being at a show and a customer oggles the pen put it is a RB and they only want a FP. Problem solved in a matter of minutes. Yes I have had this happen on several occasions. For me this would be a selling tool rather than a customer option.

I agree completely. Several people have wanted the rollerball instead of the fountain, and i didnt have it.

 

[bluwolf]

Justin and Mike (IPD Mr),

I think I finally understand the context that this idea makes sense. I can be a little slow It definitely makes sense from a selling at a show point of view. With a new, clean uninked pen, it would be a snap to swap over I suppose.

And Justin you make a good point about cleaning and switching over to an RB when traveling. I also stand corrected, you do have some great grain matching to deal with. See, I knew if I asked enough times and enough different ways I'd get a good answer.

But it does lead me back to the original point of the pen. I knew when I made it, there were going to be people that said the black section looked wrong or out of place. And I think a lot of that comes from people getting used to seeing the, "white pants, white belt, white shoes", everything matches scenario. There's nothing wrong with that, just so long as no one forgets it is a personal preference, not a rule.

And in this case, the black section would save a lot of headaches:biggrin:

Mike

 

[IPD_Mr]

But it does lead me back to the original point of the pen. I knew when I made it, there were going to be people that said the black section looked wrong or out of place. And I think a lot of that comes from people getting used to seeing the, "white pants, white belt, white shoes", everything matches scenario. There's nothing wrong with that, just so long as no one forgets it is a personal preference, not a rule.

And in this case, the black section would save a lot of headaches:biggrin:

Mike

And I think that the black looks better than a section that will never be right pattern wise to the body. It just makes sense. I would think that if you were dealing with a blank that had a repeating pattern, it would be fine. Waterman use to do this with the red ripple. Heck they even made the christmas tree feed out of the same material. But as Mike pointed out, personal preference, and I just agree with his preference.

 

[Timebandit]

Justin and Mike (IPD Mr),

I think I finally understand the context that this idea makes sense. I can be a little slow It definitely makes sense from a selling at a show point of view. With a new, clean uninked pen, it would be a snap to swap over I suppose.

And Justin you make a good point about cleaning and switching over to an RB when traveling. I also stand corrected, you do have some great grain matching to deal with. See, I knew if I asked enough times and enough different ways I'd get a good answer.

But it does lead me back to the original point of the pen. I knew when I made it, there were going to be people that said the black section looked wrong or out of place. And I think a lot of that comes from people getting used to seeing the, "white pants, white belt, white shoes", everything matches scenario. There's nothing wrong with that, just so long as no one forgets it is a personal preference, not a rule.

And in this case, the black section would save a lot of headaches:biggrin:

Mike

I actually think the black section works, but to me something looks off. Its the fact that the barrel threads match the rest of the barrel. If they were aluminum like the other end(or like a pen kit) i think it would look like it matches much better. But then it would make it look even more like a pen kit, but that is the only thing that throws me about this pen, my eyes are drawn to the barrel threads. My head just tells me that they should be alumunium and that it would kind of frame that front section in aluminum and tie that part to the rest of the pen. My eyes are drawn to those threads.

 

[bluwolf]

Justin,

I can see your point. I actually spent a bunch of time considering those things, and all your choices were the front runners. But in the end I thought the matching cap threads looked good.

It's just another case of the personal preference thing and what one person's mind's eye likes or dislikes. Doesn't mean it's wrong, just different. I guess that's what makes this whole pen thing interesting.

Mike

 

[Timebandit]

Justin,

I can see your point. I actually spent a bunch of time considering those things, and all your choices were the front runners. But in the end I thought the matching cap threads looked good.

It's just another case of the personal preference thing and what one person's mind's eye likes or dislikes. Doesn't mean it's wrong, just different. I guess that's what makes this whole pen thing interesting.

Mike

Yep...a great pen none the less. I like the more subdued look to it, rather than the overly ornateness of the blingy pens, like the one you modeled after. Its still a great pen, but i like the toned down look of yours better. Might be time to try a fountain pen version now:biggrin:

 

[bluwolf]

I know I'll find an excuse to do a fountain pen one of these days...

Mike

 

[jeff]

Looks nice on the front page :biggrin:

I usually select the featured photos from things posted in the previous month, but I was digging around in some old SOYP posts and this one caught my eye.

 

[theidlemind]

Well earned front page.
I'm glad too because I missed it the first time around.

Beautiful piece of work.

 

[Janster]

.....way too advanced for me to take it all in! Beautiful,well done, outstanding and OMG! Number Capital A ONE!!!!..........Be well.................Jan

 

[76winger]

Well Done!

 

[smik]

Great looking pen.

 

[Dalepenkala]

Awesome pen Mike! Wonderful job!

 

[bluwolf]

Thanks very much Jeff, I appreciate it. Certainly didn't see that coming.

Mike

 

[Dalecamino]

Thanks very much Jeff, I appreciate it. Certainly didn't see that coming.

Mike

I didn't either! :biggrin: Don't see many kitless make the front page, but then they don't all look like this one. Glad to see it brought back to light. As I said in my original post, it's ONE of the pens that inspired me. Thanks Jeff! And, you too Mike.

 

[johncrane]

Congrats on making the front page Mike!well deserved.

 

[cnirenberg]

Looks terrific on the front page Mike. Awesome job.

 

[mrmartyking]

Absolutely beautiful. I like the contrast of the black section. Nice machine work!

 

[mikespenturningz]

That is an awesome pen. Nothing about that not to just fall in love with. Great job.

 

[jyreene]

That's just awesome. You should market it as a kitless kit.