Casting Celluloid

[latech15]

Is there anybody who casts celluloid? I like the looks of it better than most of the PR that I have seen I just have no idea how the designs would be created.

 

[Mikey]

if you are talking about the stuff that CSUSA calls celluloid, I do not believe it is celluloid. In fact, read what I have below on Celluloid. i believe the stuff we use is nothing more than fancy acrylic.

From the Visconti Pens Website:


This material was invented by the Hyatt brothers in 1864 and is made from cotton, alcohol, camphor. The entire process to reach a workable material lasts from 4 to 8 months depending on the thickness. In fact the drying process is very important. Pens made in celluloid are made by two main process:

By Wrapping
Turned from a solid block
Both processes have advantages and disadvantages.

Wrapping : a 2/3 millimeters sheet celluloid is cut in long strips and rolled around a rod or pulled through a cone. The tube which is then obtained, is glued at the seam and dried for 20 days.
Advantages : Color is constant throughout the pen, no material is wasted.
Disadvantages : In some colors the seam can be visible.
Turned from solid rods : Advantages : Easy execution for all shapes possible.
Disadvantages : only a limited amount of patterns are available, 80% of material is wasted.
Properties of celluloid : Easy to color, allows many colors and designs. Its composition is totally anallergic, it partially absorbs humidity from the hands, so it feels smooth and comfortable. Shock absorbment (Technical : resilience) so it is an excellent material for pens.

Problems with celluloid : During manufacturing can be easy flammable and the process requires adequate precautions, it becomes soft at only 70 degrees. Constant exposure to light can cause abnormal drying and can becomes fragile! As in this case of some vintage pens.

Storage : Store in dark ventilated place at not more than 25/30 degrees.

Cleaning : Silicon sponge like those use to clean shoes

 

[its_virgil]

And neither do we...know how the designs are created. What "looks" do you like better? The swirls and thin lines? The thin ribbons folding and flowing throughout the cast? The swirling mix of two or more colors? The chunks of one color mixed in with another color? Those who cast colored PR are trying to duplicate those patterns we see in commercial blanks...It ain't so easy to duplicat them...we are trying and getting closer. I would suspect it is just as difficult with any type of resin casting. Oh, and no, I haven't seen or heard of anyone making celluloid in the home workshop.
Read on: http://www.vintagepens.com/FAQmfr/celluloid.shtml

Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by latech15
<br />Is there anybody who casts celluloid? I like the looks of it better than most of the PR that I have seen I just have no idea how the designs would be created.

 

[gerryr]

I think some of the things posted by Mikey pretty much prove that what CSUSA calls "celluloid" isn't. I haven't had a pen made from any of their blanks get soft at an outdoor show when the temperature is around 85-90 degrees. I would bet a pretty hefty amount of money that it's really acrylic and getting those patterns, I think, requires some probably very expensive machinery.

 

[txbob]

I think the temperatures referred to above are in degrees C.
txbob

 

[gerryr]

Originally posted by txbob
<br />I think the temperatures referred to above are in degrees C.
txbob

Well, that might make a small difference.[]

 

[latech15]

I like the thin lines and the ribbons running throughout the blanks. I do not like the solid or even the faded one color to the next acryllic blanks that I have seen. I like the flecked blank alright but mainly the so called "celluloid" blanks from CSUSA. those are the ones that I am interested it.

 

[low_48]

About those fine lines? Is there a point when the material gets to a plastic state so that it can be handled, but soft enough that it will still bond to another layer? Just wondering out loud. I have seen several candy making shows on the Food Network where they work with hard candy or candy canes. One of the stores makes a candy with words in the middle. They make letters from dyed candy that are at least a 3" cube, maybe bigger. By the time it gets covered with other candy, heated, and rolled/extuded into a long rope, the letters look like they were done with an ink pen.

Don't know anything about the plastic process, just talking.

 

[Tom McMillan]

I noticed this thread the other day. Someone noticed one of my miniatures made in celluloid on EBAY and was quite interested in where I got it. She is very knowledgeable about celluloid and apparently has even done some written works on it. Anyway, she gave me some information which I will contribute here below:

If it is genuine celluloid You will be able to tell from a simple test.....but first - look at the literature accompanying the package or in the magazine you ordered it from.....there might be initials identifying the composition of the plastic.... Elderly does this in their instrument
building catalogues to avoid confusion. If celluloid, it will say NC - Nitrocellulose based. If you find the initials CA - it is cellulose acetate - similar to celluloid but it used acetic acid instead of nitric acid to treat the cellulose fiber - rendering it less flammable. CA and NC look remarkably similar but have different properties. Both those plastics are thermoplastic ( they can be molded by heat and pressure) and they are semi-synthetic - part organic due the base material cellulose. Acrylic - PMMA- is also a thermoplastic - but it is totally synthetic - derived from methyl-methacrylate. Acrylic is cast rather than molded ....at least it was in the beginning. Acrylic has translucent properties that surpass the semi-synthetic plastics. If you want to be sure your material is celluloid
- run steaming hot tap water over a piece for a few seconds and give it a sniff.....if you find a strong menthol smell you've got the real thing - since camphor makes up 35% of the mix.....you wouldn't get any smell out of acrylic unless you burned a piece - and then it would smell slightly fruity....and the celluloise acetate smells sour and acrid.

 

[latech15]

I hate to sound vain, but I reall could care less whether the material is actually celluloid or acrylic. I just like the looks of it. (the CSUSA CELLULOID) If real celluloid and fake celluloid look the same then I would be more inclined to buy the cheaper of the two - all other things being held constant.

Does anyone have a pen made out of REAL CELLULOID and one made out of FAKE CELLULOID that they could post photos of?

 

[Scott]

Originally posted by latech15
<br />I hate to sound vain, but I reall could care less whether the material is actually celluloid or acrylic.

Oh, it's the simple answer you want, then? OK, here it is: No.

Scott.

(The original question was "Is there anybody who casts celluloid?")

 

[latech15]

Thanks, scott.