Can't satisfy anyone

[edicehouse]

You know with a thread here and there and some of the stuff on facebook, here is a secret, "You can never satisfy anyone, if they don't agree."

There was a thread here someone offering some work, and people strongly disagreed with what the guy apparently was offering to pay. They were saying it wasn't enough. Then on FB there was something shown where a guy was charging ~$100 for a slimline, and people lost their minds.

Here is what I think, and please others chime in with their opinions.

If you are willing to pay someone to do something, if they are okay with the price you offer, who's business is it? When people get top dollar for a pen, I don't think pen makers care, as much as them getting jealous. I am sure someone here (probably a few) would not take $100 for a slimline; however I bet a vast majority would not turn it down.

 

[Jim Smith]

Any item is only worth what the person buying the item feels that it is. If someone is willing to pay $100 for a slimline, then that's what its worth to that person. It's pretty much the same with a person's time, only in reverse. If they're willing to do a certain kind of work for a certain price, then that's what their time worth to that person. I have my own Aviation Safety Consulting business and believe me, I've seen many a person price themselves out of business; not so much because someone is will to do the work for cheaper, but because they are not perceived as adding enough value to the business for the price they're charging. I old adage of "Under promise and over deliver" really is true.

Jim Smith

 

[Smitty37]

Personal Rule of Thumb

Price - anything is worth what a willing and able buyer will pay a willing and able seller for the item assuming both are acting with no outside pressure.

Time - The value an individuals time performing a task is worth what he/she would value or be making for an alternate use of that time. Not necessarily what they get paid at work. If a person is turning pens rather than watching TV their time is worth what they think watching TV is worth Being highly skilled might allow them to charge more, but they are making a profit at anything above what they think TV time is worth. That is one of the main reasons there are wide differences in what people charge for pens.

 

[stonepecker]

after 50 years of working with my father and then running the business he started.....I believe I have seen it all. Worse, I thought I had heard it all.

As long as I make the person in the mirror happy......there are times I can't care what the other people think. I agree that you can't make/keep everyone happy no matter what you do. Hopefully, a person realizes this before they have a stroke trying. Now that I am as old as I am, I try very hard to stay out of disagreements. Everyone has the right to think what they want to. And I have started to be very picky when it comes to voicing my opinion.

Picking what is important to argue about is just as important as being at peace.
As a friend of mine once said ..... "some people just stink."

 

[jttheclockman]

As far as pleasing everyone, we all know that is not possible. Many examples throughout our lives to prove that. But to your point about the different threads you highlight. Within each one there were talking points and taking each post on face value makes one seem like a robot. If that is what you or anyone else want to be then so be it. To me this is a forum where we get to voice our opinions and that is all they are, opinions. I sure hope we all have them.

What someone does is their business and if they are happy with the outcome then who are we to question this. People make pens and give them away like candy and others make pens to make a profit. Some the profit is enough to carry on their addiction and some to carry on their habit of eating. We beat the selling aspect of our hobby to death and so many factors come into play when pricing their work. Too many to list.

But when a topic hits the floor it is open game for all to comment on it. Agree or disagree it is what this forum is about. Discussions and that is all they are. Those 2 topics were open for discussion. We did not change the sellers prices as well as we did not influence the person looking for pens to be made. But points made for talking about them were stated. That is all it was. Just my 2 cents. Happy turning.

 

[leehljp]

But when a topic hits the floor it is open game for all to comment on it. Agree or disagree it is what this forum is about. Discussions and that is all they are.

JT, this approach is very logical. I am very logical, as my wife and 3 daughters say (they give me coffee mugs with "rocket scientist" "Einstein" and recently each daughter began calling me "Sheldon", if you know what that means. Not from the intellect point of view but from the pure logic / lack of feeling - point of view.

That said, I KNOW people have "feelings" and "different values" and "perceptions" often different from mine. There were 4 of them in our house! :wink:

Without detailed information in simplified posts for the purpose of a general and quick response, many of us tend to "jump on/piled on" the question or post. While I don't usually post in these situations one way or the other, I often "think" the worst. For me, I have learned to usually restrain myself until I learn more information before "negative" comments.

A GREAT example of this is when Constance (Laserlinez) came on with his first post or two and the generalized questions / statements brought a slew of negative oriented posts. I am sure glad he had thick skin or didn't get offended enough to leave. This has happened several times over the years with others and this is just the posts that I have been able to read. The assumptions of the negative response posts proved to be wrong on Constance. But for the others that were piled on, we may never know.

 

[jttheclockman]

Hank I agree with you to a point. Each and every case has to be looked at as it unfolded. You bring up Constance, I remember this but do you remember how he broke into the scene. Mistakes on both sides of the isle were made there.

When people come to a new forum the very first post and very first thing you do not do is ask for money I do not care who you are and what you are. Money is the root of all evil. It gets in the way of many good friends and family. Somehow or some way money is a factor in the negative discussions. Look back and see if I am wrong.

 

[leehljp]

I agree. And there were other circumstances that I left out. I have forgotten who it was but the first circuit board creations and his sales were suddenly taken away by a large company that many people buy from even now. No contact with the original creator. His Sales gone!

We were all upset at a mass producer taking another fellow member's idea. Constant was trying to capitalize on bulk laser cut blanks that he himself did. Memories triggered a pile on.

Still, it is a personal choice thing, wait until we find out more or get to the heart of the problem early on. Both have its values. For me, I am a problem solver, but I have to think of the problem more in my old age or I will jump too judgement to quick.

Nothing against you personally, as I appreciate your candor.

 

[Smitty37]

Money Talk

Personally I don't think it is at all unusual, underhanded or surprising that someone looking to hire a pen turner looks in a pen turning forum whether it is his 1st or 10000th post in that forum. When I started this post there were 45 members (out of more than 20000) signed in and 393 guests which is not unusual. Guests might visit for years without becoming members and be very familiar with the kinds of information posted here, and the things members talk about. Assuming that because the first post someone makes after joining asks for help (particularly help the poster is willing to pay for) he/she is up to no good is, in my mind, condescending at best and insulting at worst.

 

[TonyL]

I heard back from that guy; I am still comfortable with his post. I am not going to invite him to my son's wedding, but I felt equipped to make my own decision about the risk I was willing to take. He didn't have to answer me, or he could have just said, "No." But I did hear back.

There are folks that asked the same in the last two years for smaller quantities, and on all occasions I offered to turn about 5 to 20 for free (with no opportunity to make any money in the future) I just wanted to turn. No one responded to me. I guess that was a polite way of saying, "I don't want you to turn any for me Tony." LOL And I am ok with that. Or they were uncomfortable about my doing something at not charge (probably the former reason).

Love of money is the root all of evil. 1Timothy 6:10

 

[Wood Butcher]

I once sold a Slimline to the cutest little guy for 25 cents. He wanted it bad and, at 25 cents, it has value to him, free it doesn't. I've tried to provide assistance with woodworking projects/problems and to determine whether the service should be paid for I ask myself, is this something the have to have or something they want that will make them look good. After all is said and done the reason we buy non-necessary things is to make is look good, smart, better than the other person, etc. If it is needed, it no charge. Pens, are rarely a necessity. As has been alluded to, you have a mirror, ask it what to charge.
WB

 

[jttheclockman]

Personally I don't think it is at all unusual, underhanded or surprising that someone looking to hire a pen turner looks in a pen turning forum whether it is his 1st or 10000th post in that forum. When I started this post there were 45 members (out of more than 20000) signed in and 393 guests which is not unusual. Guests might visit for years without becoming members and be very familiar with the kinds of information posted here, and the things members talk about. Assuming that because the first post someone makes after joining asks for help (particularly help the poster is willing to pay for) he/she is up to no good is, in my mind, condescending at best and insulting at worst.

I am NOT going to rehash this again. But it is not very cordial for someone to come to a site and no one knows you or has any clue what you are about. No one accused that person of anything. But it is drummed in our heads more and more today to be vigilant and suspect. Offer some deal to make pens and you agree and then get burned. Some will wash under the rug and be so polite about it. Then I hope you are the same people when you get that phone call from the IRS or whoever asks for money that you all jump on it and say yes I will be glad to send you my hard earned money. Please take more you did not ask enough.

Boy we have short memories of past experiences here. Again go back to that post you want to rehash and read my first reply and Tony L accused me of being too brash or whatever words he used. But I wanted to help those that were willing to give it a try. What harm is it to give some background. Why am I not allowed to ask that please answer!!!

This is one of the more polite sites but i have seen posts like that get shredded to pieces on some sites.

I know I am an easy target to come back at here because I have no problem speaking my mind but remember it is my right to also have an opinion. And it is just that an opinion or my point of view and that is what I see. Thanks for reading

 

[Smitty37]

I didn't mention your post JT. I just made a general observation stating my opinion. I trust everyone until I have a reason not to.

Personally I don't think it is at all unusual, underhanded or surprising that someone looking to hire a pen turner looks in a pen turning forum whether it is his 1st or 10000th post in that forum. When I started this post there were 45 members (out of more than 20000) signed in and 393 guests which is not unusual. Guests might visit for years without becoming members and be very familiar with the kinds of information posted here, and the things members talk about. Assuming that because the first post someone makes after joining asks for help (particularly help the poster is willing to pay for) he/she is up to no good is, in my mind, condescending at best and insulting at worst.

I am NOT going to rehash this again. But it is not very cordial for someone to come to a site and no one knows you or has any clue what you are about. No one accused that person of anything. But it is drummed in our heads more and more today to be vigilant and suspect. Offer some deal to make pens and you agree and then get burned. Some will wash under the rug and be so polite about it. Then I hope you are the same people when you get that phone call from the IRS or whoever asks for money that you all jump on it and say yes I will be glad to send you my hard earned money. Please take more you did not ask enough.

Boy we have short memories of past experiences here. Again go back to that post you want to rehash and read my first reply and Tony L accused me of being too brash or whatever words he used. But I wanted to help those that were willing to give it a try. What harm is it to give some background. Why am I not allowed to ask that please answer!!!

This is one of the more polite sites but i have seen posts like that get shredded to pieces on some sites.

I know I am an easy target to come back at here because I have no problem speaking my mind but remember it is my right to also have an opinion. And it is just that an opinion or my point of view and that is what I see. Thanks for reading

 

[sbwertz]

I've been a computer consultant for almost 40 years. I charge $40 an hour. I am very choosy who I work for...mostly seniors who I have been helping for many years. I am semi-retired and only have a dozen or so clients now. Everyone tells me I don't charge enough, but I am not trying to support myself, and most of my clients can't pay more than that. I also do a lot of pro bono stuff. That is my choice.

I feel the same way about my pens. I usually charge fifteen dollars for a slim. UNLESS it is for a fundraiser for a charity. Then it is all the traffic will bear. I got $45 for a slim in antler with a deer head clip in a fundraiser for the church. Some of my sierras have sold for as much as $150 in silent auctions for the Center for the Blind. The buyer is happy because the money is going to a good cause and he got a pretty pen, and I am happy because I've produced income for a worthy cause.

 

[TellicoTurning]

On the subject of value of time... I know of an oil field engineer that was an ex-pat in Nigeria... he got tired of working overseas and asked him company to send him home... they didn't want to do so and tried to keep him in Nigeria. He resigned and came home. As an engineer for the company his salary was in the range of $100K.... after he quit, the company did a recruit campaign to get him back, he offered to come back as a consultant only ... at $250K .... last I heard he was back in Nigeria.