Cactus Juice + Black Alumilite Dye = Fail

[Justturnin]

I am trying to dye some blanks black using Black Alumilite Dye in my Cactus Juice. I have yet to be successful on several types of wood. Has anyone been successful dyeing black w/ Alumilitedye and CJ or did you use something else? Any help would be appreciated. I am able to get these same wood to dye Blue Red and all other colors, just no black. HELP!!!! Please

Thanks

 

[NittanyLion]

Im having the same trouble with blue Aluminite in CJ on Cherry and Maple burl. I'm interested in any tips as well.

 

[MesquiteMan]

I would not be so quick to say it is a fail. Black is going to be very difficult with any dye and any resin with complete penetration. Remember, the color of the wood is always there. You can not magically change it to black with dye. White wood and black dye make gray or dark gray at best. This is going to be pretty much with any dye. The only thing you can do is keep adding more dye.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Im having the same trouble with blue Aluminite in CJ on Cherry and Maple burl. I'm interested in any tips as well.

My three tips...

1. Add more dye
2. Add even more dye
3. Add more dye than you did in step 2!

When I am doing blue in a wood such as Maple Burl, I make my resin so dark it looks black. Another thing...how long are you allowing the blanks to soak after you release the vacuum? Remember, the vast majority of the resin uptake occurs after you release the vacuum. If it takes you a couple of hours pulling full vac to remove the air, it is going to take more than a couple of minutes soaking to get saturation. Usually a few hours is enough but I sometimes leave it overnight on hard woods like Maple.

 

[NittanyLion]

Im having the same trouble with blue Aluminite in CJ on Cherry and Maple burl. I'm interested in any tips as well.

My three tips...

1. Add more dye
2. Add even more dye
3. Add more dye than you did in step 2!

When I am doing blue in a wood such as Maple Burl, I make my resin so dark it looks black. Another thing...how long are you allowing the blanks to soak after you release the vacuum? Remember, the vast majority of the resin uptake occurs after you release the vacuum. If it takes you a couple of hours pulling full vac to remove the air, it is going to take more than a couple of minutes soaking to get saturation. Usually a few hours is enough but I sometimes leave it overnight on hard woods like Maple.

Thanks Curtis.....I found the problem. I'm pulling full vac and all bubbles gone in about 25 minutes. I was only leaving it about another 45 minutes. I will try it much longer, or overnight.

 

[Justturnin]

I would not be so quick to say it is a fail. Black is going to be very difficult with any dye and any resin with complete penetration. Remember, the color of the wood is always there. You can not magically change it to black with dye. White wood and black dye make gray or dark gray at best. This is going to be pretty much with any dye. The only thing you can do is keep adding more dye.

I am going to play around with it today again. My issues is I seem to have zero penetration of the black even on some pretty soft woods. These same woods readily take other colors.

 

[robutacion]

Well, if the wood you are using, takes other colour dyes, you should be able to get some black into them...!

Curtis advice on the 3 steps to get enough dye in the juice mix, is very accurate, so much so that, the last time I was trying to dye something in blue, I started with 50 drops, then went 100, then 200, then I got the ****s and dumped of full dye bottle in a 1 x gallon of juice...!

Did it do the job...??? well, it did a lot better than with the drops counting but, did I even got the blue I wanted, no I didn't, and I doubt that dumping 2 or 3 full bottles of dye would make that much difference, I believe that, the "saturation point" when achieved, that's it, you can get any darker.

So far I used all the dye colours that Curtis sell, and I got identical penetration regardless of colour so, it has to be a reason why you aren't getting any penetration with your black dye...!

Good luck,

Cheers
George

 

[Justturnin]

Thanks George. I have a couple of "experiments" going now. The black was coming out like Tar. Could it be bad? It is really thick and actually made the Cactus Juice thick. I am mixing small amount just for testing because I am low on juice but wanted to get it right before looking into mixing a large amount.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Alumilite dyes don't go bad. The black is always real thick. If you are not getting good penetration of the Juice and color, then I would suggest you may not be allowing your blanks to equalize long enough after releasing vacuum. I have not had an issue getting it to penetrate. Now, getting it to a true black through and through...I am not sure that is possible. Then again, if I wanted black wood, I would buy black wood rather than try to make something black!

 

[Justturnin]

Alumilite dyes don't go bad. The black is always real thick. If you are not getting good penetration of the Juice and color, then I would suggest you may not be allowing your blanks to equalize long enough after releasing vacuum. I have not had an issue getting it to penetrate. Now, getting it to a true black through and through...I am not sure that is possible. Then again, if I wanted black wood, I would buy black wood rather than try to make something black!

I have had a piece soaking since 4:30am. I will give it till tomorrow and see how it goes. The piece I really want black is fairly solid so it may not work. Gonna try though.

 

[Justturnin]

I concede!!!! 6 Hour soak (it was early and I forgot about it), 1 hour in the vacuum and 26 hours at 90psi and I have about +90% penetration of the black and it is BLACK. Super happy. Just needed a little more time I guess, 2 days may be the magic number for full penetration. Thanks Curtis, as usual you came through and saw me through.

 

[robutacion]

I'm glad to know that you finally succeeded, that always makes you feel good, huh...??? :wink::wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

 

[Justturnin]

I'm glad to know that you finally succeeded, that always makes you feel good, huh...??? :wink::wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

Yea, but I don't think I did. I guess when I cut it the juice was still wet and got in the cut. I finished curing and just sanded it and I maybe have 20-25% penetration on the black. But it is better so I will keep trying.

 

[low_48]

I concede!!!! 6 Hour soak (it was early and I forgot about it), 1 hour in the vacuum and 26 hours at 90psi and I have about +90% penetration of the black and it is BLACK. Super happy. Just needed a little more time I guess, 2 days may be the magic number for full penetration. Thanks Curtis, as usual you came through and saw me through.

I didn't think you needed to pressurize at all. Not in Curtis' demo anyway. And 1 hour in vacuum is also a lot less than he recommends. Maybe read the directions again?

 

[MesquiteMan]

One hour is very low on the vacuum for most pieces of wood. Chris has been doing this for a while so I assume he is going at full vac until the bubbles stop.

If you are not getting the color you want but are getting a significant weight increase, it has NOTHING to do with penetration but rather concentration. Again, Black is very difficult to do.

 

[MesquiteMan]

And Rich is correct. Pressure only helps speed up the resin uptake after full evacuation of all the air. Soaking will do the same thing, it just takes longer.

 

[Justturnin]

On this piece, Curtis, I started at 12gr. When it came out of the pressure pot it was at 21-22 gr so the increase was there for the juice I presume but the black looked almost stringy in there just real thin lines. I have another piece cut and dry. I am going to vacuum it until I leave for work and wont touch it until I get back in town Monday. That will be a 72 hour soak under 90psi. Yesterdays was the best results I have had in black so it is promising. This rounds I am going to put the solid piece and a piece of Blonde Buckeye burl in there and see if it takes it to compare a solid against a softer wood.

I ran a side by side w/ Transtint dye in water. Same wood same process of vacuum and pressure and got great penetration but I am concerned about the color fast when I turn around and stabilize. I am pretty sure it will wash out but I am going to test once it is dried out. May take a month though

I think when all is said and done the title of the thread will need to be changed to success. Thanks for talking it out with me guys.

 

[Justturnin]

I didn't think you needed to pressurize at all. Not in Curtis' demo anyway. And 1 hour in vacuum is also a lot less than he recommends. Maybe read the directions again?

Most of the time you don't need pressure and an hour or two in the chamber will sufice. If wood needs to be stabilized it is like a dehydrated man, it will readily take the juice. But if it is solid it will not take it so readily and needs a little help. I use pressure to try and force it in there. Like Curtis said, a good soak after the vacuum can give the same results. It would take some testing to see what a day in the pot is equal to in open air soaking.

For this experiment I am not dealing with punky soft woods but a solid wood that for all intents and purposes does not need to be stabilized but I am going after a color change that looks great in this wood and a moisture resistance to be used in a wetter than average environment.

I don't want there to be too many more details on the wood because when I am done I would like to be able to post a successful full size stabilization and be able to get some oooohhh's and aaahhh's :biggrin:

 

[robutacion]

I didn't think you needed to pressurize at all. Not in Curtis' demo anyway. And 1 hour in vacuum is also a lot less than he recommends. Maybe read the directions again?

Most of the time you don't need pressure and an hour or two in the chamber will sufice. If wood needs to be stabilized it is like a dehydrated man, it will readily take the juice. But if it is solid it will not take it so readily and needs a little help. I use pressure to try and force it in there. Like Curtis said, a good soak after the vacuum can give the same results. It would take some testing to see what a day in the pot is equal to in open air soaking.

For this experiment I am not dealing with punky soft woods but a solid wood that for all intents and purposes does not need to be stabilized but I am going after a color change that looks great in this wood and a moisture resistance to be used in a wetter than average environment.

I don't want there to be too many more details on the wood because when I am done I would like to be able to post a successful full size stabilization and be able to get some oooohhh's and aaahhh's :biggrin:

Well, that looks like a good plan, to me...!

Good luck,
Cheers
George

 

[Sabaharr]

If I may also put my 2 cents in I have been drilling my blanks on the lathe with a long bit just under 7mm diameter for the full length of the blank. This gives inner surface to absorb more cactus juice and penetration comes from both directions with the added benefit of not wasting juice on the core that will be removed anyway. I know it is an extra step that is a pain in some cases but I started this when doing one piece slimlines and just got use to the process. Using the smaller bit gives a pilot hole of whatever size you eventually want to drill when you have cut your blanks. This can also be done with a vice and drill press because that is what I actually started with. Let me tell you, drilling a 1/4 inch square corian blank 5 inches long without blowing out the side took some doing.

 

[Sabaharr]

Sorry, I meant 1/2 inch corian blanks.