Black layer materials?

[jrista]

Once I get through my current manufacturing process for bowls and vases, I'll be betting back into pen making. I had a bunch of ideas for pens back in early 2022, but ended up not being able to pursue a lot of them then for various reasons. A lot of these designs rely on solid color resins, which are actually really hard to find, so I'm going to be trying to make my own (guess we'll see if that turns out successful or not...I've got standard pigments that I don't know how well they will mix into the epoxy yet...first few tries were unsuccessful due to insufficient mixing.)

Anyway, I'm going to be giving these pen designs another try, and a lot of them involve solid black layers. Rather than metals, I was originally planning on using some old expired credit cards, but I only have a couple are actually black plastic. So I am wondering if anyone knows of a good resource for these kinds of materials, particularly thin black sheets. I would actually be looking for sheets of a few thicknesses, as some of the designs will actually rely on different thicknesses of these materials. I guess more than just black would do...red, orange and yellow are probably useful as well for some of my design ideas.

I did find some white styrene at local hobby stores. One had space for black sheets but said they hadn't had any in stock for some time. I've done some searches, but end up finding either these gigantic rolls of black plastic that is too flimsy and thin, or these huge or overly expensive sheets that seem intended for industrial use, as well as carbon fiber sheets (which might be interesting in their own right, but I don't want to spend money on them until I have a good use for them.) I also already have some black resin sandwiched between two layers of metal, which I picked up from Turner's Warehouse a year or so ago.

Anyway... I seem to get less and less helpful results from search engines these days. Maybe I've just lost my touch with keywords.

 

[duncsuss]

Try a search for "knife handle liner material"

One type is called "G10", it comes in different solid colours and thicknesses.

 

[Hippie3180]

Would you like some solids in Alumilite? I make black often, easy peasy and I can easily do white as well.

Also, some use credit card stock (someone on here mentioned that) if you're looking to make very thin rings. I'm getting ready to try that out myself.

 

[KMCloonan]

I usually buy my PVC card stock from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Black-CR80-Cards-easyIDea/dp/B01MS7H566/ref=sr_1_5?crid=LWU5PQB2KRJQ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.eTUTM2Ib--T0YnEWUpsbV3YdC6X3zrd35tE1ZLuw8VcWzS_Z7Vu4fKXCIDSCp3jRkYX4w3sKNRzJrB_s7m9bEA-z_FFfMv6WXhf-z-g-GT4zluyytQNzKaaAuTFiQTY2uDEy1ffbrH7GtV-SJqR16SfX_Q-z8Ectg8w6qjgvfCRGbl7zaR7s6SpFQmkOYVPa7Xf1eRyx_27sSeyxWzTt6JTCDLXqj-BsgFoZIAU65Artufa5SCj_AtcSabS1ElbUC3xvuIHplfc-lfl22jEwCHq4hHcJumsCj2-te9Jd72A.hc0RoLFNbI1YvcAnmRJNBtI_E9qokGwxi6p9vVhAm9o&dib_tag=se&keywords=black+pvc+cards+blank&qid=1709500802&sprefix=black+pvc+card%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-5

 

[egnald]

I've seen black PVC 30 mil cards (ID Cards) on Amazon for about $0.18 each. I use the white PVC ID Cards right now, but I do scuff them with sandpaper before gluing. The glue sticks a lot better than on the glossy surface of the cards. - Dave

 

[Curly]

Have you considered pick guard materials? They come in layers or plain colours including black.

Pickguard Materials - StewMac

Shop Pickguard Materials at StewMac. 100% satisfaction guaranteed. Order today with StewMAX FREE Shipping!

www.stewmac.com

Pickguard Material - Canada

Pickguard material for building or repairing pickguards, control cavity covers, and other parts for guitars, basses, and other stringed instruments.

nextgenguitars.ca

Amazon and even Walmart have it.

 

[jttheclockman]

Jon you have those answers here at your fingertips. There was a list made up of segmenting materials and various sites listed.. just look in Library under Segmenting Material Sources and download the long list of places to get various materials.

If you are looking for black acrylic materials, the cheapest place I found and I buy a ton of stuff from them is I buy all my white and black sheets from the. They do not have colors. That you go to billiard supplies or pickguard materials.

https://evergreenscalemodels.com/

But I buy from many sources. I have an order in right now at Atlas Billiards. Expect it next week.

That Amazon link is good for various colors but you are limited in thickness to 30mil and size of the cards. But it is another source. So many places to get segmenting materials.

As for mixing your own. I use Silmar41 for all my epoxy tints. I make lots of my own solid colored blanks. I usually make blocks of them especially white and blacks and then just cut to size when needed. My black pens in the contest were done this way.

https://compositeenvisions.com/product-category/resins-foams/pigments/

I buy Silmar and colors from here. make sure you buy opaque colors if you want solid coloring and not transparent colors.

https://www.uscomposites.com/products.html

 

[jrista]

Would you like some solids in Alumilite? I make black often, easy peasy and I can easily do white as well.

Also, some use credit card stock (someone on here mentioned that) if you're looking to make very thin rings. I'm getting ready to try that out myself.

For blank solids, I need some unusual colors. I have plenty of black, gray and white acrylics, which will do for those colors. But I need unusual other solids...colors from the 60s, 70s, colors that somewhat mimic the car wraps you often find these days (maybe mixed with a very slight amount of mica powder for a slight sparkle, but still needs that solid base color), etc. I was using alumilite myself, but, I am not sure that's the most optimal...at least, I had some trouble getting all of the pigment to dissolve into the resin (and I did try mixing after, then before, adding the hardener....after was better, as it seems to take a LONG time to fully dissolve or disperse the pigment. My first several sets of blanks had precipitated particles of the pigment dispersed throughout the lower third or so of the blanks. I am not sure if there is another type of resin that would work better, or a better kind of solid pigment, but I have a lot of research to do.

 

[jrista]

Try a search for "knife handle liner material"

One type is called "G10", it comes in different solid colours and thicknesses.

Thanks! That's what I was missing, the right term. These materials look pretty nice, and are quite diverse. Lot of colors that should fit my needs.

Sometimes that's all it is...the right search term.

 

[jrista]

Have you considered pick guard materials? They come in layers or plain colours including black.

Pickguard Materials - StewMac

Shop Pickguard Materials at StewMac. 100% satisfaction guaranteed. Order today with StewMAX FREE Shipping!

www.stewmac.com

Pickguard Material - Canada

Pickguard material for building or repairing pickguards, control cavity covers, and other parts for guitars, basses, and other stringed instruments.

nextgenguitars.ca

Amazon and even Walmart have it.

I actually remember looking at this back in 2022... The question I had was, the colored stuff. Is that just a surface effect, or does the color extend through the material? If it is all the way through the material, that might make for some interesting layer material for sure.

 

[jrista]

As for mixing your own. I use Silmar41 for all my epoxy tints. I make lots of my own solid colored blanks. I usually make blocks of them especially white and blacks and then just cut to size when needed. My black pens in the contest were done this way.

https://compositeenvisions.com/product-category/resins-foams/pigments/

I buy Silmar and colors from here. make sure you buy opaque colors if you want solid coloring and not transparent colors.

https://www.uscomposites.com/products.html

So, for solid colors other than black, grey and white...as I have a great source for those that is not very expensive. Does anyone make pigments or dyes or what have you designed for resins? I have not used Silmar41, although I have definitely read about you and others using it on these forums. I need colors, and...colors I've kind of devised myself by manually color matching the various pigments (just your standard earth materials stuff, cadmium and such, for painters usually) to devise the colors I want (just figuring out what ratio mix of each base pigment will produce the color I want, then reproducing those ratios when I make a set of blanks.) The reason I went with the standard painters pigments (which are just fine powders) back in 2022, is I could NOT find any SOLID color pigments explicitly designed for resins. Still can't today... There are solid white and black, maybe gray. But there rest are all mica powder, metallic, etc. pigments...which won't really serve my needs for most of the ideas I want to explore.

If you know of a resource that has solid color, non-metalic pigments, actual color (not black, white or grey) that can be used reliably with resins, I'd love to know it.

 

[Curly]

I tried the black liquid pigment in epoxy. Very black from a couple drops. Didn't separate even though it was a slow curing epoxy.

Liquid Color Pigments

Tint your epoxy resins with EcoPoxy's colored epoxy pigment set. Blends thoroughly into epoxy resins with high tinting properties.

www.ecopoxy.com

 

[jttheclockman]

No one is going to give you a recipe for how much color to add because it does not exist . That comes as a trial and error thing and when you find something keep your notes. I mix my own solid colors but I mix with sparkle and use the Mica powders. they work fine with Silmar. I am not and nor do I ever want to know about alumilite. Will never use it. Way to finicky from all I read here. good luck with that. you can get Mica powders many different places including Amazon. Can not help you more than that I will show you a couple pens I mixed my own in Silmar. Caps of these rope pens are my mix. Tried to get as close to color of the rope.

 

[Fred Bruche]

So, for solid colors other than black, grey and white...as I have a great source for those that is not very expensive. Does anyone make pigments or dyes or what have you designed for resins? I have not used Silmar41, although I have definitely read about you and others using it on these forums. I need colors, and...colors I've kind of devised myself by manually color matching the various pigments (just your standard earth materials stuff, cadmium and such, for painters usually) to devise the colors I want (just figuring out what ratio mix of each base pigment will produce the color I want, then reproducing those ratios when I make a set of blanks.) The reason I went with the standard painters pigments (which are just fine powders) back in 2022, is I could NOT find any SOLID color pigments explicitly designed for resins. Still can't today... There are solid white and black, maybe gray. But there rest are all mica powder, metallic, etc. pigments...which won't really serve my needs for most of the ideas I want to explore.

If you know of a resource that has solid color, non-metalic pigments, actual color (not black, white or grey) that can be used reliably with resins, I'd love to know it.

Those work great for me, but I have only used some of them, the best saturation I've achieved.

 

[Fred Bruche]

Also, these are pretty good too and they will match any color you desire.

 

[rixstix]

Another option from BearToothWoods

https://www.beartoothwoods.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=35_143&osCsid=mo5jkrv2p7q49lf0q9dqoasr77

 

[Hippie3180]

You might try these dyes, these are all opaque and very easy to use. None are transparent. I use them with Alumilite all the time and they give great results.

There is a DOD green, a brick red and orange that harken a bit to vintage colors, also you can manipulate them, mix your own colors, add white, black etc.

Divine Pigments

Pen making and wood turning supplies including, bottle stoppers, duck call, ring making, pen making and bowl making and turning supplies tools.

www.turnerswarehouse.com

 

[jrista]

No one is going to give you a recipe for how much color to add because it does not exist .

Well, I never asked for that....

Mica powders or sparkly pigments are not solid pigments. I'm looking for SOLID, no sparkle. For both the layering material, and pigments to make my own blanks.

 

[jrista]

Those work great for me, but I have only used some of them, the best saturation I've achieved.

These look interesting! Are they truly solid color, or do they have any sparkle to them? I like the idea that they are pastes...

 

[jrista]

Another option from BearToothWoods

https://www.beartoothwoods.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=35_143&osCsid=mo5jkrv2p7q49lf0q9dqoasr77

Thanks! These just might do!

 

[jrista]

I tried the black liquid pigment in epoxy. Very black from a couple drops. Didn't separate even though it was a slow curing epoxy.

Liquid Color Pigments

Tint your epoxy resins with EcoPoxy's colored epoxy pigment set. Blends thoroughly into epoxy resins with high tinting properties.

www.ecopoxy.com

Do you have to use their epoxy? If so, how is it...good stuff? Slow curing shouldn't be a problem for solid colors. I did try some slow curing epoxy for my first sets of blanks, and at least with the mica pigments and swirling color contrasts I originally had in mind, the slow curing stuff didn't work...everything blended together in the end. I generally try to use Alumilite for swirling blanks now, since it cures much faster. Solid colors though, should be fine with a slower curing epoxy.

 

[jrista]

You might try these dyes, these are all opaque and very easy to use. None are transparent. I use them with Alumilite all the time and they give great results.

There is a DOD green, a brick red and orange that harken a bit to vintage colors, also you can manipulate them, mix your own colors, add white, black etc.

Divine Pigments

Pen making and wood turning supplies including, bottle stoppers, duck call, ring making, pen making and bowl making and turning supplies tools.

www.turnerswarehouse.com

Interesting. I have a few divine pigments, but I don't think I ever saw these colors before. Some GREAT colors here for the retro stuff. DOD Green, Conch Aqua, Rusty Orange. Perfection!

 

[duncsuss]

I actually remember looking at this back in 2022... The question I had was, the colored stuff. Is that just a surface effect, or does the color extend through the material? If it is all the way through the material, that might make for some interesting layer material for sure.

I've used pickguard for accent rings. The triple-layer black/white/black or cream/black/cream were my favourites as in the pic). The layers are solid colour (some are sparkly). I don't remember where I got a "sample pack" - 4 or 5 two inch squares - for not much more than the cost of postage. Definitely easier than building up the layers from individual sheets

 

[hewunch]

I actually remember looking at this back in 2022... The question I had was, the colored stuff. Is that just a surface effect, or does the color extend through the material? If it is all the way through the material, that might make for some interesting layer material for sure.

Color goes all the way through. I have used a bunch of pickguard.

 

[jrista]

I've used pickguard for accent rings. The triple-layer black/white/black or cream/black/cream were my favourites as in the pic). The layers are solid colour (some are sparkly). I don't remember where I got a "sample pack" - 4 or 5 two inch squares - for not much more than the cost of postage. Definitely easier than building up the layers from individual sheets

View attachment 370000

That is a beautiful pen!!

 

[jttheclockman]

Well, I never asked for that....

Mica powders or sparkly pigments are not solid pigments. I'm looking for SOLID, no sparkle. For both the layering material, and pigments to make my own blanks.

Well Jon you are all over the place here. You want pickguard or want segmenting material in various colors. Then you want to make your own. You want dyes that are solid. I believe within this thread you got both. many of those links are good for coloring your own resins but they are just different companies. All I say is make sure when you buy from whatever company that you know you are buying opaque or transparent dyes. As for pickguard here is some sites. other than the Evergreen site I told you about for sheets of black and white. Pickguard material was used in the caps of the rope pens I shown.

Atlas billiards: https://atlassupplies.com/products/plastic-colored-sheets?_pos=7&_sid=f2d60f4c5&_ss=r

Download file for list. I tried posting file here but can not so just go to library and look for file and download the list. You will find the pickguard as well as many other lists. Pickguard was also made for GISI and I believe Beartoothwoods sells it for him.

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Segmenting%20Resource%20(3).pdf

You can also buy from Exotic Blanks as well as other vendors blanks that are already made in various colors

Good luck.

 

[duncsuss]

That is a beautiful pen!!

Thank you!

 

[Curly]

Do you have to use their epoxy? If so, how is it...good stuff? Slow curing shouldn't be a problem for solid colors. I did try some slow curing epoxy for my first sets of blanks, and at least with the mica pigments and swirling color contrasts I originally had in mind, the slow curing stuff didn't work...everything blended together in the end. I generally try to use Alumilite for swirling blanks now, since it cures much faster. Solid colors though, should be fine with a slower curing epoxy.

Later today I will mix some into some of the polyester casting resin Marla used. First I have to plow the snow from the driveway. I'll let you know how it works. If it works with it and the epoxy it should be fine for the Alumilite. Ecopoxy is a good product and uses vegetable oils in it manufacture so presumably a better health/environmental choice.

 

[Dieseldoc]

Try a search for "knife handle liner material"

One type is called "G10", it comes in different solid colours and thicknesses.

G-10 material is very very hard to use in turnings. It will dull skew faster that any other material. You can only cut on band saw about 12 inches and blade is shot.
Carbide is only tool that half way will stay sharp.

I have stash of G-10 that won 't get used.

 

[jrista]

Well Jon you are all over the place here. You want pickguard or want segmenting material in various colors. Then you want to make your own. You want dyes that are solid. I believe within this thread you got both. many of those links are good for coloring your own resins but they are just different companies. All I say is make sure when you buy from whatever company that you know you are buying opaque or transparent dyes. As for pickguard here is some sites. other than the Evergreen site I told you about for sheets of black and white. Pickguard material was used in the caps of the rope pens I shown.

Atlas billiards: https://atlassupplies.com/products/plastic-colored-sheets?_pos=7&_sid=f2d60f4c5&_ss=r

Download file for list. I tried posting file here but can not so just go to library and look for file and download the list. You will find the pickguard as well as many other lists. Pickguard was also made for GISI and I believe Beartoothwoods sells it for him.

file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/Segmenting%20Resource%20(3).pdf

You can also buy from Exotic Blanks as well as other vendors blanks that are already made in various colors

Good luck.

Its simple. Two different things. Whole blanks, for which I have had trouble mixing solid colors. And layering material, of which I mainly need black, but could use other colors if they are available. The layering materials was the main question.

I am making my own whole blanks for solid colors I can't find anywhere else. I simply offered that as some background explanation in an earlier post. People responded to that with offerings of some actual solid-color pigment. You seemed to misinterpret that, and offered mica/metallic pigments, which are decidedly non-solid, swirling, with different tones, transparencies, and depths throughout any given blank. This wasn't my original question, I just offered the blank stuff as bit of background, really. The main question was layering materials, non-metalic, ideally in different thicknesses. I don't mind that people offered some pigments, I can certainly use good solid color pigments. The main question was about layering materials...sheets of layering materials.

Others offered pickguard, I didn't ask for it myself, but its an interesting option, but its not what I asked for myself. I don't know why you are now offering pickguard options... ??? John, you don't have to respond to every one of my posts! If my posts bug you, move on. As I said, I need colors of blanks that NO ONE offers ready made. I've searched, through every blank maker I've ever been able to find, and outside of bright, primary colors and sometimes some other bright colors, square blanks or rods, there really aren't many solid color blanks with the kinds of colors I am needing myself. So I MENTIONED I was mixing my own pigments and trying to make my own, in order to support some of the blank designs I've come up with, for which the layering material would be used. I'm still really primarily looking for the layering materials, but people shared some links early on that covered that pretty well. I'd never looked for the knife making supplies, but that seems to be the main solution...TON of knife making supplies in all manner of styles and colors. The rest of the thread after that was mainly a bonus, with some useful other posts offering pigment options that could also help me in my OVERALL endeavor, and I'm certainly thankful for that.

The one weird curveball in here, are your posts...

 

[jttheclockman]

OK Jon I am out hope you get what you want. Look forward to seeing what you come up with. By the way MICA powders is a company and not all sparkly. Just another idea is Trans Tint dyes and they are liquid and you can mix and match to form colors. Being a mixologist can be difficult in resins.

One other thing is you will have a hard time finding different colored materials in the plastic arena in various thicknesses. You can go to places that sell acrylic sheets and then sand them down to smaller sizes if need be. https://www.eplastics.com/plexiglass/acrylic-sheets?inv=1&msclkid=a6294e356a63107707112bd37cdd7574&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Plexiglass Main&utm_term=acrylic sheets&utm_content=acrylic sheet

I gave you this link already but will highlight the color additives that I use all the time. They work in any resins and should be enough colors to blend or use straight.

https://www.uscomposites.com/pigments.html

 

[jrista]

Being a mixologist can be difficult in resins.

Aye. This I wholly agree with.

 

[jrista]

G-10 material is very very hard to use in turnings. It will dull skew faster that any other material. You can only cut on band saw about 12 inches and blade is shot.
Carbide is only tool that half way will stay sharp.

I have stash of G-10 that won 't get used.

So, is G-10 the main kind of material used for knife liner materials?

EDIT: Looks like this is the vast majority of knife liners. Bummer. There are some great colors with knife liners. I have a metal cutting blade for my bandsaw...any idea if that would make it easier to cut? Also curious how well it sands...or not.

 

[rixstix]

and here is a box of the BearToothWoods materials for less than half price

https://www.penturners.org/threads/continued-shop-clearing.180846/

 

[Curly]

G-10 has glass fibres in it and that's why it is brutal to work with.

 

[jrista]

G-10 has glass fibres in it and that's why it is brutal to work with.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the info. It looks like there are a good variety of the plastic cards on Amazon, with some colors that might work for some of my goals. I think I'll give those a try to start, see how it goes, at least for the colored stuff. BearToothWoods also has their layering materials...however I have a heck of a time getting to his site, and it continuing to work long enough for me to actually buy anything. Sometimes its ok, but most of the time it seems to time out.

The styrene JT linked is the only stuff that seems to come in different thicknesses, so that'll probably be a primary source.

 

[Curly]

Post #6 the pick guard materials I linked come in several thicknesses .035, .059, .080 and .083. Maybe not a wide range but they polish up very well. A hunt might reveal some other thicknesses.

 

[Fred Bruche]

These look interesting! Are they truly solid color, or do they have any sparkle to them? I like the idea that they are pastes...

Yup, solid colors. It's a bit more difficult to scoop up and to fine dose but the saturation is really good.

For solid colors blanks, did you check the Semplicita SDHC blanks from Beaufort Ink?

 

[Curly]

Later today I will mix some into some of the polyester casting resin Marla used. First I have to plow the snow from the driveway. I'll let you know how it works. If it works with it and the epoxy it should be fine for the Alumilite. Ecopoxy is a good product and uses vegetable oils in it manufacture so presumably a better health/environmental choice.

jrista I tried to setup for mixing the black and white colours I have into the polyester resin but they are 3 or 4 years old and have thickened in the bottles. I can't do a test and be fair to the products. Sorry. I'm pretty sure there would be no issues using it in other resins, just can't guarantee it.

 

[jrista]

jrista I tried to setup for mixing the black and white colours I have into the polyester resin but they are 3 or 4 years old and have thickened in the bottles. I can't do a test and be fair to the products. Sorry. I'm pretty sure there would be no issues using it in other resins, just can't guarantee it.

No worries.

I am actually not well versed in resins. I've used Alumilite, and a couple of deep pour resins. The deep pour seem to have surprising movement as they cure, so the one I tried were not good for blanks. Alumilite is better for swirled stuff, thanks its shorter cure times, but it needs pressure at just the right time. I've wasted a bit of alumilite trying to figure that whole timing thing out, although John U does have some good resources there.

I've never tried Silmar41, and probably should. I'm open to hearing about what the best resins are for this stuff. It seems like strait up acrylic is good for solid colors, as that is what all the solid color resin blanks I've purchased seem to be. Most of the time, I'm looking for more muted tones, earthy tones, and colors that just aren't common. As I understand it, Silmar41 is a polyester? I've worked some poly blanks as well, although I don't know if any were solid color. I'm open to hear about people's experiences. Most of my blanks are resin based concepts, a few incorporate wood as well. Some will include metals, most are just resins and probably black or colored accents (hence the topic.)