jttheclockman
Member
Hey Grizz
Just wanted to compliment you on your web site. Very well done.
Just wanted to compliment you on your web site. Very well done.
Hey Grizz
Just wanted to compliment you on your web site. Very well done.
What.... IAP members jump the gun? Never! :wink:
Man, it is SO easy to get a dogpile going around here and it is hilarious to watch so many make such bold statements without having a clue as to what the facts are.
For anyone interested in a fact.... I went back and read Bruce's original post made back in May 2008 where he first introduced his circuit board pen and he said in part...
So, it looks like someone else had developed a method of casting a circuit board in resin before Bruce... perhaps it was THAT person who got with Berea, wouldn't that be a hoot!
The simple fact is that we just don't know any of the facts but hey, don't let the lack of any factual data get in the way of a good lynching!
Mob mentality.... you gotta love it! :tongue:
But the fact that you admitted it wasn't your original idea, then came on here and implied that Berea has done you some wrong by taking your idea is pretty deceitful.
OK, if you want to do this publicly, we'll do it publicly.Deceitful? He's hid nothing so either you've got either a loose understanding of the English language or a loose understanding of the situation. Possibly both.
Bruce admitted he saw it somewhere else but couldn't remember where and was not able to give the person credit. There's absolutly no deceit in anything he's done or said.
The bottom line is that Berea, thinking it was solely Bruce's idea, stepped in and told him that they were going to start selling them. Regardless of who's idea it was in it's very infancy, Berea stepped in and basically said "I'll be taking those sales from you, thanks." Same bull as Penn State with the bullet pen idea. It's the person with the most money and resources taking fresh ideas from the smaller, shipping work overseas, producing an inferior product, and selling to the uninformed masses. But hey, if that's your bag....
Objection. Facts not in evidence.... Bruce admitted he saw it somewhere else but couldn't remember where and was not able to give the person credit. There's absolutly no deceit in anything he's done or said.
The bottom line is that Berea, thinking it was solely Bruce's idea, stepped in and told him that they were going to start selling them.
While I agree that Penn State's bullet pen is inferior to the real deal, it is clear on their website that it is not a 'real bullet' kit. Even if it was, why would we have a problem with them offering it. After all, many people make bullet pens and several of them offer the bits for sale. Why shouldn't one of our suppliers get into the game.Regardless of who's idea it was in it's very infancy, Berea stepped in and basically said "I'll be taking those sales from you, thanks." Same bull as Penn State with the bullet pen idea. It's the person with the most money and resources taking fresh ideas from the smaller, shipping work overseas, producing an inferior product, and selling to the uninformed masses. But hey, if that's your bag....
Hey, hey now Gary! Don't discourage people from posting their pen designs here! Lord knows there wouldn't be half the pen designs out there if we didn't all steal them from each other! :biggrin:Gee I wonder if that's why some members stop posting pics of their newest designer pen here?????????????
Bruce I know what you mean about making ends meet---heck we are trying to keep the heat on this year.
OK, if you want to do this publicly, we'll do it publicly.
First: For the record, I changed my post. "Deceitful" was a bit strong so I thought better of it.
Second: Correct me if I'm wrong, because...you know...I don't understand the English language or the situation very well, but did he even mention the fact that he didn't come up with the idea in response to this thread? No. But I assume you already knew that and chose to ignore it. That's just plain ignorant. Did you even read my post? What I said was that it was not truthful to imply that Berea had done him wrong by stealing his idea...and here's the important part so I'm making it all caps so you'll see it...WHEN IT WASN'T HIS IDEA!!!!! But of course I'm just working from a "loose" understanding of the word "truthful", so please enlighten me.
What is there to misunderstand here?! Unless you're a psychic, I doubt very much that you know what Berea was thinking. If they did see Bruce's post on this site, it's likely they would have known that he didn't claim the idea was his.
If you're going to make ignorant comments about uninformed masses, maybe you should inform yourself before making yourself look stupid. And you know what? If Berea can make them better for less than I say, more power to them. In reality, their product isn't better than Bruce's, so who really cares about their crappy blanks?! I support Bruce for making a superior product and I'd rather give one of our members business, but I'm not going to act like an idiot because of some misguided sense of honor or loyalty. But hey, if that's your bag...
Babyblue, I'll state it as plainly as I can. If you're unable to see what I'm talking about, I'll quit wasting my breath:
Bruce saw a letter opener (believe it was) which caught his eye. Later he made a pen with the same idea. He was unable to locate the old pic, it's creator, any details about it. From what I've seen on the internet on every pen related site I've come across, I haven't seen anyone else making these for sale. IAP is the largest and most popular penturning site on the web, bar none. Bruce admitted he didn't not create this idea, but was able to start making them and was selling them. Given that from what I've seen, there is no other vendor for them and we don't know if the originator is ever selling them or made one and quit, then Bruce isnt taking bread out of his mouth.
On the other hand, Berea comes to this site, notices Bruce has carved a niche for himself with the circuit pens and informs him they're going to start carrying them and I don't think anyone else does apparently. Did Berea track down the mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him? Probably not or they would have gotten permission from him, being he was the originator. Berea came in, saw something they liked, saw someone was already selling them, started selling them.
The major difference here is from what I can tell, Bruce isn't knowingly taking money from anyone's pocket because he doesn't know another place to find them. Berea on the other hand knows someone else is selling them and chose to produce them regardless.
If that does not rhyme with your logic, there's no point in me continuing with you because I cannot fathom why this is not perfectly clear.
Tex I hate to tell you, but that's happened a few times here. Ideas have been stolen and I know of one idea that's currently a self professed 'belonging' of someone else here who is not the first person to use that design. Some people had exactly the same emotions regarding it, others were just willing to let someone get screwed over. Not much different at all.
It's a free market crowd, I just can't stand the WalMart mentality. I think that Free Market isnt what it may have used to been. Now a day it's a huge business crushing a small business. How many people here are left with small town businesses? Any little privately owned hardware stores? How about fresh markets? No, nothing but WalMart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. Some people are happy to see someone get steamrolled, some not. As far as I'm concerned, if someone creates a niche for themselves, let them have it. Is it too much to ask to let someone find something they're known for and let them be the go-to guy for that product?
What's next. Will someone figure out how to make the PRPrincess' cat blanks and we're all going to say "Hey, whoever can give me the best price!"? Ruth Niles is now having her bottle stoppers duplicated by someone in Canada that bought a stopper directly from her. Anyone going to send her an email and tell her "Hey, that's capitalism, get used to it."?
This might not be the best example. I may very well be mistaken, but I think that she is importing these for resale. (I have seen very similar items offered for import.) As such, why would it be a problem if someone also sold them?... What's next. Will someone figure out how to make the PRPrincess' cat blanks and we're all going to say "Hey, whoever can give me the best price!"?
It's not going to be a competition. If Bruce is making them and selling them at what a price that he can afford, there's no way Berea isn't going (and they have) to undercut that price with cheap labor and lesser quality. They've got much more manpower and resources than Bruce, so it's not a competition. A competition would mean that there's a chance the underdog can win, and in this case I don't see that happening. And even if I can talk myself into qualifying it as a competition, then no, I don't see it as a good thing. I don't know where everyone gets this black-and-white mindframe that all competition of product and sales is without exception a good thing. In general it's a good idea, but there's exceptions and I think this is a heck of an exception.
Objection. Facts not in evidence.It's not going to be a competition. If Bruce is making them and selling them at what a price that he can afford, there's no way Berea isn't going (and they have) to undercut that price with cheap labor and lesser quality.
What do you mean 'win'. I seriously doubt that Bruce ever thought that he would buy that new cabin cruiser with the procedes from his circuit board blanks. It's much more likely that he discovered that he could make some cool pen blanks and offered some to us. He would make a few bucks on them, but I doubt that he ever viewed them as the road to financial peace or expected that the market would be his (at his chosen prices) forever.They've got much more manpower and resources than Bruce, so it's not a competition. A competition would mean that there's a chance the underdog can win, and in this case I don't see that happening. And even if I can talk myself into qualifying it as a competition, then no, I don't see it as a good thing. I don't know where everyone gets this black-and-white mindframe that all competition of product and sales is without exception a good thing. In general it's a good idea, but there's exceptions and I think this is a heck of an exception.
Ummm, Bruce didn't create the idea of casting stuff in resin to make blanks out of them, nor did he create the idea of using circuit boards in his castings. His blanks are awesome and I am certainly glad that he has been able to make a little money off his hard work and hope that he chooses to adapt so he can make more, but his circuit board blank is not patentable.You have to adapt? If that's the case, why bother patenting things? Why bother trademarking things? Simple, to negate that competition. I don't see you lobbying against patent rights.
Yes, everyone here has to stop selling pens. That's exactly what I'm conveying. Also, you have to stop using the words 'and' and 'everyone' because I use them too. Since I'm such a bad salesman and my website isn't up, you mind giving me the source files for yours? I may as well duplicate your website and just put my own pics in there. Hey, you're going to just have to redo yours and make it better.
It's not going to be a competition. If Bruce is making them and selling them at what a price that he can afford, there's no way Berea isn't going (and they have) to undercut that price with cheap labor and lesser quality. They've got much more manpower and resources than Bruce, so it's not a competition. A competition would mean that there's a chance the underdog can win, and in this case I don't see that happening. And even if I can talk myself into qualifying it as a competition, then no, I don't see it as a good thing. I don't know where everyone gets this black-and-white mindframe that all competition of product and sales is without exception a good thing. In general it's a good idea, but there's exceptions and I think this is a heck of an exception.
You have to adapt? If that's the case, why bother patenting things? Why bother trademarking things? Simple, to negate that competition. I don't see you lobbying against patent rights.
Yes, everyone here has to stop selling pens. That's exactly what I'm conveying. Also, you have to stop using the words 'and' and 'everyone' because I use them too. Since I'm such a bad salesman and my website isn't up, you mind giving me the source files for yours? I may as well duplicate your website and just put my own pics in there. Hey, you're going to just have to redo yours and make it better.
Most of this isn't in dispute, so I guess you have indeed wasted your breath. What I take away from this drivel is you think that regardless of who actually comes up with the idea originally, the first person to start selling the product has dibs on the market?! PREPOSTEROUS!!!! If it's not Bruce's original idea, than it doesn't matter if he's the first one to start selling them or not. Completely irrelavant.Babyblue, I'll state it as plainly as I can. If you're unable to see what I'm talking about, I'll quit wasting my breath:
Bruce saw a letter opener (believe it was) which caught his eye. Later he made a pen with the same idea. He was unable to locate the old pic, it's creator, any details about it. From what I've seen on the internet on every pen related site I've come across, I haven't seen anyone else making these for sale. IAP is the largest and most popular penturning site on the web, bar none. Bruce admitted he didn't not create this idea, but was able to start making them and was selling them. Given that from what I've seen, there is no other vendor for them and we don't know if the originator is ever selling them or made one and quit, then Bruce isnt taking bread out of his mouth.
Once again, too much speculation here. I don't know why Berea contacted Bruce to tell him and frankly, I don't really care. Did Bruce track down this mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him that he was going to start selling based on that idea? No. So, why is Berea being crucified in part because of this? Bruce just started selling them with little to no regard for who came up with the idea in the first place. And you seem fine with that, so that shouldn't even be a problem. Berea may have seen something they liked and thought would go well with the rest of their products, but where do you get off claiming that they started selling that product because someone else already was?! That's absurd and also irrelavant.On the other hand, Berea comes to this site, notices Bruce has carved a niche for himself with the circuit pens and informs him they're going to start carrying them and I don't think anyone else does apparently. Did Berea track down the mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him? Probably not or they would have gotten permission from him, being he was the originator. Berea came in, saw something they liked, saw someone was already selling them, started selling them.
Irrelavant for the same reason as above. Who started selling first is of no consequence if that person didn't come up with the idea for the product.The major difference here is from what I can tell, Bruce isn't knowingly taking money from anyone's pocket because he doesn't know another place to find them. Berea on the other hand knows someone else is selling them and chose to produce them regardless.
There wasn't any point to your posts in this thread in the first place, so don't let me stop you.If that does not rhyme with your logic, there's no point in me continuing with you because I cannot fathom why this is not perfectly clear.
Who started selling first is of no consequence if that person didn't come up with the idea for the product.
Let's take your theory one more step out:If Curtis made the first cactus blank, it's idea.
If Curtis decides to never sell them, I think someone else should be free to do so.
I think that's the boiled down version of your whole viewpoint, which I totally disagree with.
If Curtis made the first cactus blank, it's idea.
If Curtis decides to never sell them, I think someone else should be free to do so.
If Curtis decides to sell his idea, I think he should get cart blanche.
If someone else decides they cannot do without selling them while Curtis is selling them, then Curtis should get credit for the design or compensation.
Did Bruce track down this mysterious letter opener's creator and inform him that he was going to start selling based on that idea? No. So, why is Berea being crucified in part because of this? Bruce just started selling them with little to no regard for who came up with the idea in the first place.
"No" NOT TRUE please don't put words in my mouth.
I enjoy making Bruce's blanks into pens. The "real, genuine" mother and other boards makes those blanks unique and interesting. Nothing simulating this look will be the same as the "real" thing.
The other blanks from Berea are not the same, though they do have a similar look. They will appeal to one group of people, Bruce's blanks will appeal to another.
Thus far, I haven't seen you come to the realization that the seller and the originator of the circuit board cast in resin idea ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. If you can't or won't acknowledge that then...well...you're welcome to your opinion.
Babyblue,
Bruce saw a letter opener (believe it was) which caught his eye. Later he made a pen with the same idea. He was unable to locate the old pic, it's creator, any details about it.