Almost entire shipment cracked

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r1237h

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Has this happened to anyone? I sent 3 Vertex Supreme Fountain Pens and 3 penlights to be engraved at Woodturningz. Got an e-mail today stating that all but one penlight arrived cracked. They are guessing that it happened due to very low temperatures during the shipment (USPS). I know I sent them whole, nicely wrapped in a box, but the pictures they sent show a whole bunch of cracks.

What does one do? Waiting till spring seems to be a bit unreasonable. Unless I know of a carrier that keeps the packages at room temperature, I am going to have to try and find a local place (Lower Mainland, British Columbia) that can engrave a logo on the pens/penlights.
 
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jttheclockman

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r1237h

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Now that is a bummer. What was the blank material??? It has been discussed here before about shipping in extreme conditions. It also has been discussed that some materials are just prone to crack no matter what you do. Give us a little insight as to how and what you shipped. The search feature is a handy thing there.


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/shipping-71593/


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/shipping-pens-sub-zero-temps-beware-41798/

The material was Cocobolo, wih a CA finish. And I realize that there is a search feature. I use it a lot. However, it never occurred to me that there would be a problem, so why search?
 

Randy Simmons

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How thick a finish did you put on?

It was pointed out that air shipping gets very cold! The season shouldn't make much difference.

When I have tubes engraved, Usually I turn the wood down, get the engraving done, get the barrel back, apply my finish (I usually order a deeper engraving and fill it with metal powder of some sort) so the engraving is sealed and flat, and THEN assemble the pen. Does that make sense?

It prevents your finish from getting nicked/cracked, and the kit parts from getting damaged, namely fountain pens.

Hope this helps!

Randy
 

jttheclockman

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Now that is a bummer. What was the blank material??? It has been discussed here before about shipping in extreme conditions. It also has been discussed that some materials are just prone to crack no matter what you do. Give us a little insight as to how and what you shipped. The search feature is a handy thing there.


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/shipping-71593/


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/shipping-pens-sub-zero-temps-beware-41798/

The material was Cocobolo, wih a CA finish. And I realize that there is a search feature. I use it a lot. However, it never occurred to me that there would be a problem, so why search?


So why search you ask??? I pointed this out because you asked the question and to help you answer it abit better. I posted a couple links that may have interest to you and there are others. One can never be sure how many people will see your question and answer so being it was out there already-------------:)

This is a huge concern not only shipping but transporting to and from shows. There are do's and don'ts when storing pens so there is a wealth of info that might interest you or not. That is the reason I answered with the search feature.
 

r1237h

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Location
Port Moody, British Columbia
Now that is a bummer. What was the blank material??? It has been discussed here before about shipping in extreme conditions. It also has been discussed that some materials are just prone to crack no matter what you do. Give us a little insight as to how and what you shipped. The search feature is a handy thing there.


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/shipping-71593/


http://www.penturners.org/forum/f14/shipping-pens-sub-zero-temps-beware-41798/

The material was Cocobolo, wih a CA finish. And I realize that there is a search feature. I use it a lot. However, it never occurred to me that there would be a problem, so why search?


So why search you ask??? I pointed this out because you asked the question and to help you answer it abit better. I posted a couple links that may have interest to you and there are others. One can never be sure how many people will see your question and answer so being it was out there already-------------:)

This is a huge concern not only shipping but transporting to and from shows. There are do's and don'ts when storing pens so there is a wealth of info that might interest you or not. That is the reason I answered with the search feature.

I see. I thought you were saying that I should have searched before sending, to which I replied that since it never occurred to me that there might be a problem, I didn't think to search. As for using the search function after the fact, to see if it happened before, and why, obviously you are right.

One of the main reasons for the post was to see if anyone could suggest a local alternative, and to explain why, I mentioned what had happened.

In any case, thanks for the information/help.
 

jttheclockman

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OK being you are new and have but 8 posts I will mention your problem is not unique. It has been discussed as I mentioned. Within the links I posted gave some examples as to the whys. Such as heat and cold reacting with woods. Remember wood will move, no matter how small. Now you lock this wood to a metal which is the tube. Where is the wood going to move??? So it cracks trying to move. Being thinned to fit these kits it does not take much. You would have better luck with acrylics but that is not fool proof either.

Suggesting to have this engraving done from a local shop would be a better alternative I would think.

As far as shipping in the future there were some suggestions of what precautions could be taken but again nothing is foolproof.

Good luck and maybe you could post some photos if you get them returned.
 
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This has happened to me in the winter. I had one crack like that. The person that purchased it didn't blame me one bit for this but I fixed it and sent it back. This time it made it back without any cracks. I hate shipping in the winter now.
 

Smitty37

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Hmmm

I'd almost expect summer to be worse....sitting on the tarmac in 90 degree heat then taking off and climbing to 30,000 feet and dropping the temperature, pretty stressful....
 

leehljp

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Wow. Never thought of that. I just sent my first international order to Canada from here in Alabama.
Just a thought - cargo holds in aircraft flying at 30,000+ feet are always cold and the temperature probably isn't that much different in winter than summer.

Pressurized planes, even the cargo and baggage areas are pressurized - so that the cabin/cargo area is in the equivalent of 5000 - 6000 ft even when flying at 35,000 ft. Used to have a watch with an altimeter based on air pressure. It was great to see us flying along at 35,000 ft and the pressure listed as 6000. And, While I am not an expert on this, the Inside temps of these holds are certainly not below freezing nor should they be above 90° - 95° at the most in the summer.

That said, humidity changes can have just as much effect and greater - as wild temp changes such as in a closed up hot car in the summer sun, or the cold of an unheated shed in Canadian winter. Humidity is decreased dramatically in long flights compared to the outside. This change in humidity in the plane is more dramatic than the changes in the temp in the cargo holds, IMHO.

I too have questions - was the wood stabilized, or was it cross cut, or soft wood, or was it just air dried? Green wood and air dried along with cross cut woods can change size dramatically with humidity changes unless they are well stabilized. Thin CA, and other finishes, do not penetrate all woods as deep as one might think. I went back and read - cocobolo, - cocobolo can crack due to heat and or humidity changes. I have had some rather fresh and green, and I have had some that was obviously dryer.

I once tried to dye some 1/16 in balsa wood and put it in a pressure pot in the dye and held a vac for 24 hours. Then I put pressure to it and held it for 24 hours, Removed it, let it dry for a week, cut it and it was still white in the middle. Some woods but not all, are resistant to simple finishes penetrating the wood enough to prevent contraction and expansion due to humidity swings along with abnormal temps.
 
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Dan Hintz

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Pressurized planes, even the cargo and baggage areas are pressurized - so that the cabin/cargo area is in the equivalent of 5000 - 6000 ft even when flying at 35,000 ft. Used to have a watch with an altimeter based on air pressure. It was great to see us flying along at 35,000 ft and the pressure listed as 6000. And, While I am not an expert on this, the Inside temps of these holds are certainly not below freezing nor should they be above 90° - 95° at the most in the summer.
They're always pressurized (with the exception of a couple of planes most wouldn't fly on anyway), but it's up to the flight crew if the hold is heated or not. If an animal is on board, they enable the heaters... if not, that hold can get quite cold. Some say they won't put their electronics (like cameras) in their baggage because they're afraid they'll be stolen... I wouldn't put a camera in there because of the large temp swing.
 

Smitty37

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Wow. Never thought of that. I just sent my first international order to Canada from here in Alabama.
Just a thought - cargo holds in aircraft flying at 30,000+ feet are always cold and the temperature probably isn't that much different in winter than summer.

Pressurized planes, even the cargo and baggage areas are pressurized - so that the cabin/cargo area is in the equivalent of 5000 - 6000 ft even when flying at 35,000 ft. Used to have a watch with an altimeter based on air pressure. It was great to see us flying along at 35,000 ft and the pressure listed as 6000. And, While I am not an expert on this, the Inside temps of these holds are certainly not below freezing nor should they be above 90° - 95° at the most in the summer.

That said, humidity changes can have just as much effect and greater - as wild temp changes such as in a closed up hot car in the summer sun, or the cold of an unheated shed in Canadian winter. Humidity is decreased dramatically in long flights compared to the outside. This change in humidity in the plane is more dramatic than the changes in the temp in the cargo holds, IMHO.

I too have questions - was the wood stabilized, or was it cross cut, or soft wood, or was it just air dried? Green wood and air dried along with cross cut woods can change size dramatically with humidity changes unless they are well stabilized. Thin CA, and other finishes, do not penetrate all woods as deep as one might think. I went back and read - cocobolo, - cocobolo can crack due to heat and or humidity changes. I have had some rather fresh and green, and I have had some that was obviously dryer.

I once tried to dye some 1/16 in balsa wood and put it in a pressure pot in the dye and held a vac for 24 hours. Then I put pressure to it and held it for 24 hours, Removed it, let it dry for a week, cut it and it was still white in the middle. Some woods but not all, are resistant to simple finishes penetrating the wood enough to prevent contraction and expansion due to humidity swings along with abnormal temps.
Pressurized yes, heated maybe but mostly not unless there is either animal(s) or a known temperature sensitive shipment. When the holds are open for loading 90 degrees on the tarmac (not unusual in the summer at many airports) will be more than likely be 90 degrees in the cargo hold unless there is some good reason for having the air turned on.
 
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leehljp

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I have been flying international for far too long! :wink: :biggrin: Never had a bag seem cold, never had one seem hot, and most were withing 20 minutes of de-plane. Same for domestic flights. (Well I did have one bag that took longer. In fact I asked if I could get the travel milage of the bag. Got into Seattle, went through customs, checked bag back in to final destination (Memphis). Bag went back to Tokyo where it originated! Two days later, finally got it!)
 
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RSidetrack

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Unfortunately it sounds like you suffered from the age old issue of temperature and climate changes. I didn't sift through all of the responses, so I am sure what I am about to say has been said, but figured I would say it just in case it hasn't :wink:

Wood expands and contracts quite a bit based on temperature. This is why when you wood work you want to have the wood you will be working with "acclimated" to the temperature before doing anything, otherwise you may start cutting pieces and end up with everything at different lengths and widths. Wood also takes in moisture, so humidity changes can cause shifts in the wood itself as well.

When it comes to pens, assuming you are using a kit, the wood is glued to a metal tube. The wood after being turned is very thin. The expansion and contraction rate of the wood is typically a lot more than that of the metal tube. As a result, when the wood is contracting or expanding and the metal that it is glued to is not doing so nearly as much, the wood cracks. Chances are when you shipped out the pens they were fine, I don't doubt that one bit. However, when they hit the extreme temperatures they may have cracked - I am not sure what the temperatures were in transport, but we hit temperatures at around almost 0F here. This is very cold for a wooden pen and can cause issues.

Another important thing to note is to not allow for rapid expansion or contraction. This would be like taking a pen from a 0 degree environment and bringing it into a 70 degree environment. Shipping during the winter time is always the worst for this and I always notify anyone I am sending a pen to make sure that they let the package acclimate to the inside temperature for a day or two before opening it. I also wrap it in extra layers to help reduce the speed in which the temperature changes on the pen. However, sometimes it just cannot be avoided. I had to replace a segmented pen once because of the high temperature variations and I ended up sending it with heat packs used for shipping fish!

I am not going to say you did anything wrong, chances are you didn't do a thing, but this is something that can easily occur during this time of year. It is sad you lost so much of your shipment, and I wish you the best of the luck with future shipments.
 
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