Acrylics and celluloids and resins - oh my!

[punkinn]

Okay; first of all, when I wrote some time back about my first tries at turning acrylic pens and said something to the effect of "I don't think I'll like it, I prefer wood..." how many of you laughed?

What is it about these things - the colors? The "bling" factor? I mean yeah, they're easier to turn than wood, and a glass finish is mindlessly simple, but I can't get enough of seeing them come off the lathe! It's crazy really...

And so my real question: How do you tell the difference between acrylic, celluloid and resin? Is there a visual difference?

Nancy

 

[bonefish]

I have been wanting to ask that same question. Add Polyester to the list, too.

I'm not interested in the chemical links and chains. I want to know the difference as applied to pen turning.

Thanks punkinn for asking.

Bonefish

 

[alamocdc]

The biggest difference I've noticed, Nancy, is the appearance and smell. Yes, they turn a bit differently, but I've not yet seen a resin (typically PR, Bone) that has the same effects that you'll find in acrylic acetate, celluloid and Lucite (the stuff from Pipemakers Emporium). In fact, from what I can tell, these two are basically the same thing. In fact some of the acrylic and celluloid blanks (the fleck type) remind me of Italian resins. I haven't turned IR so I can't address that, but the look is quite similar. For me, I consider acrylic and celluloid basically the same (and for all I know they may actually be) and find them easier to turn than PR. This determination is made using the blow up factor. I've had fewer (if any) of these blow up on me while turning.

 

[baldysm]

Acrylic and celluloid for our purposes are essentially the same. Not too hard to turn.

Resin (I assume you mean polyester resin) is very brittle. I hate turning it. Others have mentioned that they have good luck with a skew while turning it, I havent used the skew much.

 

[Daniel]

From scotts post I would say it must have been Resin that I got ahold of at one point. had to pluck pieces of it out of my cheeks after turning it. Not really but the stuff was horrible to turn. was really bad about cracking and basically hard as a rock. the acrylics and celluloids or at least they are called celluloid... I have turned have had a much softer feel on the lathe. I actually enjoy turning them more than a lot of woods. and as you pointed out they are a snap to finish. Acrylics and the rest do not ahve the issues that come with wood pens such as cracking, or even the variation on colors. I have more confidence that if I show someone a pen made form acrylic I will be able to make anouther very close to the same. wood leaves a lot of concerns about that. I plan to change the material selecton on my web site to be primarily acrylic, celluloid or other "Plastics"

 

[ed4copies]

I think I did this before. First, I do not pretend to be an "expert" on plastics. But here are my observations, willing to be corrected by someone who is an "expert" on plastics.

Acrylic acetate (as labelled by distributors) is hard, but not brittle. It is VERY forgiving-push your tool into it mercilessly and you take off big chunks, but the rest of it does not "crack" or break easily. Great material to begin your career in turning plastics.

Polyresin is variable. The formula used to create this material (how much hardener and how hot and humid the conditions) will make it range from VERY user-friendly to damn near impossible to turn. It can be fairly soft (and, yes, this CAN be polished to a high shine) right up to VERY brittle-Dawn's Pen Potion #1 was RIDICULOUS, that's why we are now on Pen Potion #9, which turns beautifully. Also Polyresin will set differently, based on the dyes added-so the formula that works great for black, may not work at all for red.

Celluloid SEEMS TO be the "Italian resin" family. This is a more "rubbery" product. When I first turned it, heat was a REAL problem, since I have learned more about it, I find it also is easy to turn. (Smells like rubber burning-characteristic of celluloid-IMO.)

Micapearl and some others (which will remain unnamed, since they seem to be changing their formula, making it more user friendly) are VERY brittle, also. They CAN be turned, but usually NOT easily.

Those who disagree, feel free to express your thoughts!!!!!!!![][]

 

[punkinn]

Fantastic Ed!! Thanks very much for your excellent explanation. []

Nancy

 

[redfishsc]

I find PR resin sapwood to be much less brittle than PR heartwood, for those whom it may help.

 

[rduncan]

Originally posted by redfishsc
<br />I find PR resin sapwood to be much less brittle than PR heartwood, for those whom it may help.

Yeah, but I've had problems with some of the knots. []

 

[SteveRoberts]

Just an additional FYI, celluloids don't like UV,outdoor display can fade them dramatically. I find that the bling affect is good for sales but will vary by market as to it's effectiveness.

Steve

 

[ed4copies]

Thanks Steve,
I did not know that!!!

 

[redfishsc]

I did not either. Will keep that very much in mind!


I made cherry burl pen that is two-toned from me leaving it sitting on my friends picknick table all day (I'm lucky it didn't split). Looks kinda neat.

 

[ed4copies]

After thinking about this, Steve, some of our homebrew faded due to a bad batch of dyes-are you sure the stuff that faded for you was celluloid?? I have never had that problem, BUT I don't go outside with it often!!! And, it stays INSIDE the tent (5 finger discount prevention).

 

[Joe Melton]

If you peruse a copy of Pen World Magazine, you will see outstanding pens from internationally-known artists and manufacturers. Less than 10% of them contain wood.
Of course, less than 10% of the pens sold at Walmart contain wood, too.
Joe

 

[Dario]

Originally posted by Joe Melton
<br />If you peruse a copy of Pen World Magazine, you will see outstanding pens from internationally-known artists and manufacturers. Less than 10% of them contain wood.
Of course, less than 10% of the pens sold at Walmart contain wood, too.
Joe

I believe the reason is...wood is less predictable and more difficult to mass produce (automated) than plastics.

IMHO wood is better than any synthetic material if you want to produce unique and collectible pens.

 

[Kaspar]

Good explanation, Ed. Yes, micapearl is a bugger to turn, but I have yet to see the acrylic equal of a really good white micapearl blank, successfully turned.