Absolute minimum blank length for kitless pens?

[egnald]

Hello fellow IAP members,

I am hoping to cast a few blanks for kitless pens, but I only have a 2.5 gallon pressure pot. The complexity of my mold design is completely dependant on the feedback I get from you. (I don't have any personal experience with kitless pens - yet).

My basic/easy design mold would permit me to make blanks that are 8.25 inches long without much modification.
I think I might be able to squeeze out another 0.25 to 0.5 inches inches with some creative design changes in how my mold is clamped together.

So, is 8.0 inches be long enough? or do I need to stretch them to 8.25 or 8.5?
Of course 8.0 would be fantastic and would give me a little extra room to work with.

Thanks in advance for your comments and help. - Dave

 

[Fred Bruche]

8.0 inches should be fine for a normal size pen, but that somewhat depends on your design as well. I typically use less than 6.5 inches for the body and cap and 1.5 inches is plenty for a fountain pen section (but might be tight for a rollerball section). You can always use a different/contrasting color for the section and finials if needed (to attach a clip for example).

 

[rixstix]

Using coordinating finials & section, I've been squeezing a 5" blank for cap & body. 8" round would be fine for my use but I don't put my abilities into the same class as more seasoned experts.

You didn't ask but for me round is a much easier starting point than square & probably saves a bit of resin from the waste bin.

& what Duncan said

 

[duncsuss]

The blank length has never bothered me, getting all the parts (section, cap, cap finial, barrel) out of a single blank doesn't always work out even if they appear to be long enough at the start. It can depend on getting patterns to align and how many times I goof.

So I buy duplicates anyway

 

[egnald]

8.0 inches should be fine for a normal size pen, but that somewhat depends on your design as well. I typically use less than 6.5 inches for the body and cap and 1.5 inches is plenty for a fountain pen section (but might be tight for a rollerball section). You can always use a different/contrasting color for the section and finials if needed (to attach a clip for example).

Thanks Fred. I would likely make my sections from black or some other monotone color anyway (personal preference). Considering how my 5-inch molds are designed I can easily extend them to 8-inches without jumping through a lot of hoops. - Dave

 

[egnald]

Using coordinating finials & section, I've been squeezing a 5" blank for cap & body. 8" round would be fine for my use but I don't put my abilities into the same class as more seasoned experts.

You didn't ask but for me round is a much easier starting point than square & probably saves a bit of resin from the waste bin.

& what Duncan said

Thanks Rick. I make my molds out of Schedule 80 PVC so they are round to start with. - Dave

 

[egnald]

The blank length has never bothered me, getting all the parts (section, cap, cap finial, barrel) out of a single blank doesn't always work out even if they appear to be long enough at the start. It can depend on getting patterns to align and how many times I goof.

So I buy duplicates anyway

Thanks Duncan. - Dave

 

[Hippie3180]

I prefer something around 8.5" if I am going to make cap, body and section out of the same blank. If you don't have enough you can always make a contrasting section and cap. I initially cut my parts a bit long to allow for squaring and any parting off I do, that's why 8.5" inches.

We made our own molds 9" long, we fill them and after the pressure pot they are long enough. We made a holder that holds 8 pvc blank molds that fit in our 2.5 gallon pressure pot, however we generally only do 4.

I also think my pen length is longer than some, I consider them mostly desk pens.

 

[egnald]

I prefer something around 8.5" if I am going to make cap, body and section out of the same blank. If you don't have enough you can always make a contrasting section and cap. I initially cut my parts a bit long to allow for squaring and any parting off I do, that's why 8.5" inches.

We made our own molds 9" long, we fill them and after the pressure pot they are long enough. We made a holder that holds 8 pvc blank molds that fit in our 2.5 gallon pressure pot, however we generally only do 4.

Thanks for the input. I'm going to make a minimal tweak to my mold design and I think I can comfortably get 8.5 inches. My base material is 3/4-inch thick HDPE and I would like to not have to slice it down, but if it comes to that I will probably try to cut it into 3/8 thick. That will give me a little more room before my pvc hits the top of the pot. - Dave

 

[sorcerertd]

I was going to suggest one of those vertical rod molds. A quick search left me surprised at the price on those molds. Anyway, for my own reference (I do plan to get a 2.5 gal pot at some point), will that pot even hold a vertical mold for 9" rods?

 

[egnald]

I was going to suggest one of those vertical rod molds. A quick search left me surprised at the price on those molds. Anyway, for my own reference (I do plan to get a 2.5 gal pot at some point), will that pot even hold a vertical mold for 9" rods?

The spec says it is 10 inches deep. I don't know about the overall length of the silicone molds but I'm guessing it would be tight. The price is why I decided to go the Schedule 80 PVC route. - Dave

 

[Hippie3180]

We use pvc as well, our molds are 9" the holder we have it in has holes that are recessed to hold the blanks, everything works nicely. We can get 8 blank molds inside our pressure pot.

 

[Curly]

Some casters lay the pot on its side and put a piece of plywood in to act as a shelf. They can put horizontal open moulds in that way to make long blanks.

 

[jrista]

I'm curious what the general preference is when it comes to kitless design. Is it generally more preferred for the pen cap and body to use the same blank? Or do people prefer they use different materials? Or even many different materials for various parts of the pen (i.e. the nib holder different from cap and body, or the cap maybe having a different "finial" material than the rest of the cap, different material for sleeve, etc.)?

 

[egnald]

Some casters lay the pot on its side and put a piece of plywood in to act as a shelf. They can put horizontal open moulds in that way to make long blanks.

Cool - Thanks for the Tip. I never thought of that, but it makes perfect sense - the air doesn't really care what orientation the pot is in. - Dave

 

[Hippie3180]

I'm curious what the general preference is when it comes to kitless design. Is it generally more preferred for the pen cap and body to use the same blank? Or do people prefer they use different materials? Or even many different materials for various parts of the pen (i.e. the nib holder different from cap and body, or the cap maybe having a different "finial" material than the rest of the cap, different material for sleeve, etc.)?

If you really take a look around at the handcrafted fountain pen world you will see a lot of pens made utilizing a whole blank where cap, body and section use one blank as well as pens with different caps and sections. Often wood blanks are not long enough so often you will see that the section may be different, sometimes ebonite, sometimes Alumilite. There is really a varied mix of handcrafted pens out there.

I think perhaps it is more common to see manufactured pens in one material.

 

[jrista]

If you really take a look around at the handcrafted fountain pen world you will see a lot of pens made utilizing a whole blank where cap, body and section use one blank as well as pens with different caps and sections. Often wood blanks are not long enough so often you will see that the section may be different, sometimes ebonite, sometimes Alumilite. There is really a varied mix of handcrafted pens out there.

I think perhaps it is more common to see manufactured pens in one material.

I'm curious what the actual preferences are, though, I guess is what I was trying to ask. Is it actually the preference to use a single material? Or, is it maybe more of an economical thing...cheaper to use just one material than more than one?

 

[rixstix]

My preference is for finials & section to be different but coordinated with the body/cap. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it looks like you tried but color coordination is half a bubble off. Sometimes you see a butt ugly combination (I have some in that category). In my ideal world, the bottom 2-3 inches of a long blank would be the predominant color of the blank, guranteeing an exact match for finials & section.

I don't really look at economics over color coordination..

 

[duncsuss]

I'm curious what the actual preferences are, though, I guess is what I was trying to ask. Is it actually the preference to use a single material? Or, is it maybe more of an economical thing...cheaper to use just one material than more than one?

When you're sinking hours of time into a custom pen, the cost of the materials becomes insignificant. It is driven by the aesthetics and preferences of either the client (if it's a pen made to specific request - as in "bespoke") or the maker (if it's a pen to go into stock for hopefully later sale).

It's probably only cheaper to use a single material if you can *just* squeeze all the components out of it with no leftovers. (Otherwise it's likely to be cheaper to use a 1.5" piece of black ebonite for the nib section than buy an entire additional blank of celluloid or cellulose acetate or galalith or whatever.)