360 herringbone how to????

[wolftat]

I actually got a kick out of some of the comments. They weren't even spelled correctly, shows me where they were coming from. It's going to take more than a little cheap talk to get anywhere with me.

Now, just to rub it in. I'm sitting here at my keyboard making a new herringbone 360 blank.

 

[ldb2000]

Go for it Neil .... Your my hero :biggrin:

 

[wolftat]

Go for it Neil .... Your my hero :biggrin:

You and my dogs, and I have to feed them....LOL

 

[akbar24601]

Go Neil Go!!!

 

[wolftat]

Just to really get them I might make 2.....LOL Yeah thats right, how do you like me now???????????

 

[leehljp]

I was told by someone that the ends that connect or butts up to the next piece, aren't square, they are shaped similar to this<> only no space between but the are also cut at compound angles and are rectangular,

That is the way I "see" it. I haven't tried yet and don't have the time. But I do love to "visualize" it.

One thing we have to realize - and it is the foundational controversy for this: We are all different. I am a creative type and can visualize things easily. I realize that many people can't.

I can hold plans in my head including designs and multiple measurements for flatwork easily for months and years. My cousin cannot. But with a set of plans and a list, he can build a table that is every bit as nice as what I can do. Two different people. Should I tell him he can never make a table because he cannot "visualize" it. He is not an "imagining" person. Should I look down on him because he can't? Should I tell him to figure it out for himself? OR should I recognize his inability to "visualize" and help him? When I do that, I get a "free" accountant :biggrin:, because that is what he does well that I can't.

But on the other hand - I do agree with this:

Every time I see guys looking for the easy way, I think about Eagles opinion, NO figure it out!!

Here is a link to two items that I made some years ago and neither measurements or designs were written down on paper, yet I visualized every part and the whole (including measurements for each piece) before making either.
Scroll down to the fourth post.
http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=42491&highlight=Router+Center

Should I tell others - go figure it out, or should I help those who cannot "visualize". There is a difference in lazy, as some are, and not having the ability as others are. We don't need to condemn both because one is lazy. This is a personal choice and I personally err on the side of helping.

To me, life is not about me, but about helping others become better than I am by building on what I do know. I do, as a teacher, offer suggestions and try to push them along with clues, but I do realize that some do not have ANY visualizing ability. LOML taught me that! She is spatially challenged but musically gifted.

On this forum, we have gifted people, obviously have a few lazy people, and we have those without any imagination that would love to have some insights and help. Some people need lists and steps and to others, lists and steps get in the way. Sharing what we know is personal and reveals our personality.

 

[wolftat]

Hank, you should tell me I can't make one. I can't cut more than 2 inches straight.

 

[ed4copies]

Hank,

You say, "I do, as a teacher, offer suggestions and try to push them along". Sounds like this is your profession-vocation. So, you are PAID to do this? I suspect if each of the prospective students who want the 360 degree info were to give Neil and Steve a couple hundred bucks (cheap tuition) and there were 50 or so of them (most colleges don't offer courses to less than 50 people --- course prep, etc) ------

Well, that comes to about $5-10 grand. NOW Neil and Steve might see a GOOD REASON to SHARE THEIR techniques.

BTW, did the guy who taught YOU do it for FREE, or was he/she also being paid??

Professional teaching is not a transfer of YOUR ideas, generally, it is a transfer or evolution of ideas of others. A whole different animal.

 

[wolftat]

Ed, you missed your true calling, you would have made a great lawyer.

 

[akbar24601]

Ed, you missed your true calling, you would have made a great lawyer.

Hey! It's never too late ED!!!

 

[bitshird]

Professional teaching is not a transfer of YOUR ideas, generally, it is a transfer or evolution of ideas of others. A whole different animal.

Wow ed, that's the sweetest thing I've heard you say, also one of the best, It's hard enough to show someone the path, but that doesn't mean you should lead them down it.

 

[wdcav1952]

Ed, you missed your true calling, you would have made a great Bull Sh***er!!.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

 

[bitshird]

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Cav, it's hard enough to get Ed to ship the resin for Dawn, He'd never get a bull a box :wink::wink:

 

[leehljp]

Hank,
BTW, did the guy who taught YOU do it for FREE, or was he/she also being paid??

Professional teaching is not a transfer of YOUR ideas, generally, it is a transfer or evolution of ideas of others. A whole different animal.

That which I learned in helping others was FREE from the school of hard knocks and it came through the venue of experience. There was no money paid for that! Just time and mistakes. And it is a matter of philosophy - About me, or others.

In business, information and knowledge is profitable and should be considered as such. On THIS forum, pen turning is a community - more "open source", to use todays terms. I know that you run a business here and that you sell blanks of the HB design, so you are biased. However, most people are not here for "business" purposes, and the primary purpose of this forum is the sharing of ideas and encouraging the expansion of pen making among a voluntary community. Your business preferences should not override the needs of the community.

That said, in an open forum community as IAP is, when I know something that others do not, I can choose to keep it to myself selfishly or I can choose to help others who ask.

This is not a matter of business and dollars, but of philosophy differences. Helping others (or teaching) is not its own reward for me, - It is my character and who I am. And I see this in many people on this forum. I hate to see this discussion degenerated to money and dollars, but I do realize that is the way some see it.

 

[Texatdurango]

George, I don't feel that you are being fair in your chastisement of Ed.

akbar24601 don't read too much into anything Ed and I say to each other, we enjoy pulling each others chain now and then. But, I still think severak folks are overly concerned that once everyone figures out this top secret design that the market will be flooded with knockoffs, afterall it's just a herringbone design for crying outloud! If it's so time consuming, most won't even fool with it.

This hysteria reminds me of the celtic knots, for a while everyone had to make one, myself included, but it soon died down and I haven't made one in over a years now!

 

[rjwolfe3]

Go Ducks?!?!

 

[Wolfcoast]

I don't really have access to my shop at the moment because I'm in the process of moving but.....

After thinking about the 360 issue I came up with one idea. Would be a pain in the butt to do but possible.

What about small slices of veneer glued around the tube??

It would take a lot of effort in cutting all the little slices but seems to me it MIGHT work.

 

[jimbob91577]

Go Ducks?!?!

LOL

Go Duck Hunters!

 

[wolftat]

In business, information and knowledge is profitable and should be considered as such. On THIS forum, pen turning is a community - more "open source", to use todays terms. I know that you run a business here and that you sell blanks of the HB design, so you are biased. However, most people are not here for "business" purposes, and the primary purpose of this forum is the sharing of ideas and encouraging the expansion of pen making among a voluntary community. Your business preferences should not override the needs of the community.

That said, in an open forum community as IAP is, when I know something that others do not, I can choose to keep it to myself selfishly or I can choose to help others who ask.

This is not a matter of business and dollars, but of philosophy differences. Helping others (or teaching) is not its own reward for me, - It is my character and who I am. And I see this in many people on this forum. I hate to see this discussion degenerated to money and dollars, but I do realize that is the way some see it.

I also have a business where I make and sell pens, that is a business that my family has been in for many years. If I am able to make a product someone else can not make, why should I feel that because we are the members of the same forum group that I am obligated to share one of the few hard earned secrets that I have? There are so many different designs out there, why is this one so important that everyone has to have it? My main fear is that this blank will start being made in the sweat shops and showing up at the larger companies all looking the same. This has happened too many times and I for one am tired of it, so if I have any say and I don't, it would never be posted as a tutorial. I mean no disrespect to anyone that is interested in truly working on this blank, but I think this is a special blank and I don't want to see it cheapened.

 

[leehljp]

I also have a business where I make and sell pens, that is a business that my family has been in for many years. If I am able to make a product someone else can not make, why should I feel that because we are the members of the same forum group that I am obligated to share one of the few hard earned secrets that I have? There are so many different designs out there, why is this one so important that everyone has to have it? My main fear is that this blank will start being made in the sweat shops and showing up at the larger companies all looking the same. This has happened too many times and I for one am tired of it, so if I have any say and I don't, it would never be posted as a tutorial. I mean no disrespect to anyone that is interested in truly working on this blank, but I think this is a special blank and I don't want to see it cheapened.

You are a business and you should respond that you will not help anyone because it is your business. I don't blame anyone for protecting their business.

However, unless you have a patent on the design or copyright, anyone can try to make something like it or copy it. Also bear in mind that this is a community forum and that ideas are shared simply by posting a picture. So when it comes to ideas, IF a business participates and shows off a pen, EXPECT it to be copied. I don't really have an interest in it although figuring it out is more fun than a problem. (multiple angles in a triangle form; or make a couple of round blanks, drill a hole through the center and then slice the pieces at an angle and then cut the sections)

Some people don't have the ability to visualize this. I don't hold that against them. LOML has taught me (didn't get paid for it either) that just because someone can't visualize something doesn't mean that they can't appreciate it - They may not be skillful at it either but at least they can say they tried. And giving step by step instructions for something that they have trouble visualizing (that I do naturally) - brings friendship, trust, loyalty and appreciation - that I can depend on down the road. I have reaped benefits from sharing what little I know with folks on this forum that some would rather hold to themselves. Personally, it is not about "me" and "mine" but helping others the way several helped me at the beginning.

I work with all kinds of people and supervise many personality types also. We have some wonderful people that have no idea of how to send attachments or open specialized forms on a computer. And me - I learned binary coding in the early 60's. So, I don't make fun of them or tell them they "have" figure it out for themselves. I often do other people's forms, or set up their computers, or write a detailed step by step list for them, and in return I get very very productive and effective work done from them.

I don't like spoon feeding people at all, but I will do that if it helps that person get back on their feet, or become productive or give them some special encouragement or develop confidence in themselves. Not understanding "concepts" "vision" or being able to figure things out should not limit people from enjoying the same things.

 

[MesquiteMan]

The problem is, Hank, as soon as you are nice and create a good tutorial on the subject in the spirit of sharing for personal use, all of a sudden, everyone is making YOUR creation and selling them in the classifieds and profiting from your idea.

 

[GodofBiscuits]

Do I get a cookie if I figured it out? It's really neat what you can do with a sheet of cardboard, an Xacto knife, some glue and an evening of mindless sitcoms.

Now I won't be taking over anyone's business in the near future and have no interest in taking away from anyone's fame and glory, I do enjoy learning new ideas, and figuring out ways to make some of the amazing pens on this site. I am not rich or even middle class for that matter so to obtain a 360 HB I must figure it out and make one of my own. Half the enjoyment really is figuring out how stuff is done the reaping the reward for a fraction of the price. Now to go build a laser cutter out of chewing wrappers and duct tape.

So where's my cookie :-D

 

[theturningcircle]

Now to go build a laser cutter out of chewing wrappers and duct tape.

So where's my cookie :-D

Been there - done that - didn't work:curse:

 

[leehljp]

The problem is, Hank, as soon as you are nice and create a good tutorial on the subject in the spirit of sharing for personal use, all of a sudden, everyone is making YOUR creation and selling them in the classifieds and profiting from your idea.

In MY business, that is the point! Real success in my business IS working one's self out of a job by training others to improve and do a better job than I can! :wink: :biggrin: Not ashamed of it either. :wink: I apply that idealism both in my work, and outside of my work. I know that I am idealistic to a point on this subject.


This whole theme basically goes against my grain: "Help those who are talented with hints but rain on the parade of the visualized challenged". I realize I am of a different opinion but my greatest teacher said it is a greater honor to give the front chair to those - that most people put in the back.

I am probably wrong with my interpretation of forum policy and I acquiesce to your judgement, but I have read the following to mean "help others" when they ask. "The goal of the IAP is to give pen makers a place to enhance their skills, share experiences, and promote the art of pen making." When we keep it hid, we are not doing this.

 

[leehljp]

Do I get a cookie if I figured it out? It's really neat what you can do with a sheet of cardboard, an Xacto knife, some glue and an evening of mindless sitcoms.

Now I won't be taking over anyone's business in the near future and have no interest in taking away from anyone's fame and glory, I do enjoy learning new ideas, and figuring out ways to make some of the amazing pens on this site. I am not rich or even middle class for that matter so to obtain a 360 HB I must figure it out and make one of my own. Half the enjoyment really is figuring out how stuff is done the reaping the reward for a fraction of the price. Now to go build a laser cutter out of chewing wrappers and duct tape.

So where's my cookie :-D

Hey, that is great! Congratulations and you did it. It sure is better when one figures it out for himself or herself. Just remember some people are challenged in this area but they are not without talent or heart.

Your Cookie:

"Leaders are best when people scarcely know they exist,
not so good when people obey and acclaim them,
worst when people despise them.
...Of good leaders who talk little,
when their work is done,
their task fulfilled,
the people will all say 'We did this ourselves'"
Lao Tsu 2000 years ago

 

[Don Gaiser]

Are you sure about that???

http://www.faber-castell.com.au/24139/News/Pen-of-the-Year-2008/default_news.aspx

The problem is, Hank, as soon as you are nice and create a good tutorial on the subject in the spirit of sharing for personal use, all of a sudden, everyone is making YOUR creation and selling them in the classifieds and profiting from your idea.

 

[rjwolfe3]

His idea???
http://www.faber-castell.com.au/2413...ault_news.aspx

Looks like everyone seems to be copying someone else. I wonder who made the first one at the beginning?

 

[Rollerbob]

Looks like everyone seems to be copying someone else. I wonder who made the first one at the beginning?

UH, God!!:biggrin:

 

[bitshird]

On this forum I believe it was Chip "TribalRR" at least that was the first one I remember seeing, but I've not quite been here two years yet, and I have to tell you that Chips Blew me away, Then Steve started doing them. I don't think these people that want a tutorial realize the expense that Neil has gone through from making his bandsaw more accurate which alone cost close to 350.00 to creating the jigs to make the blank, so he has a bunch of money and time invested. We were talking about making a more accurate miter sled, he's looking for 1 degree accuracy, any one have some idea how hard it is to hold 1 degree consistently? add to the fact he wants to do this on a compound angle. Sure call Rockler, or CSUSA they can help you with all of this stuff just sell your first born, buy some spare time (which is really expensive)and you too can join the wonderful world of marketing.
Maybe I'm not one to be talking because I've pretty much copied someone elsewhere tool design and have sold a couple hundred of them, BUT I didn't ask him for a tutorial on how to do it, I figured out the first one then went on to improve on his design, with a couple more designs. I really think this topic has been beaten to death

 

[Texatdurango]

Are you sure about that???

http://www.faber-castell.com.au/24139/News/Pen-of-the-Year-2008/default_news.aspx

Too funny! Looks like the "Sweat shops" have already gotten hold of someones "idea"..... before they did!

Looks like some don't mind sharing their secrets, Fabre Castell even has a page showing how some of their pens are made, even shows how their assembly line is set up. Check it out! http://www.faber-castell.com.au/196...cts-are-made/Connector-Pens/default_news.aspx

 

[ed4copies]

On this forum I believe it was Chip "TribalRR" at least that was the first one I remember seeing, but I've not quite been here two years yet, and I have to tell you that Chips Blew me away, Then Steve started doing them. I don't think these people that want a tutorial realize the expense that Neil has gone through from making his bandsaw more accurate which alone cost close to 350.00 to creating the jigs to make the blank, so he has a bunch of money and time invested. We were talking about making a more accurate miter sled, he's looking for 1 degree accuracy, any one have some idea how hard it is to hold 1 degree consistently? add to the fact he wants to do this on a compound angle. Sure call Rockler, or CSUSA they can help you with all of this stuff just sell your first born, buy some spare time (which is really expensive)and you too can join the wonderful world of marketing.
Maybe I'm not one to be talking because I've pretty much copied someone elsewhere tool design and have sold a couple hundred of them, BUT I didn't ask him for a tutorial on how to do it, I figured out the first one then went on to improve on his design, with a couple more designs. I really think this topic has been beaten to death

Warning, this turned long, sorry!
​

Ken,

We have to have SOMETHING to talk about. And, each new discussion brings up new facets of debate. Perhaps having influence on the NEXT "invention" or "innovation".

One of the reasons I don't choose to be "inventive" or "innovative" is my preference to find "income" in my hobbies. I don't believe these innovations pay minimum wage, on a per hour basis. But, I enjoy debate and I learn from others' opinions. Hopefully, Hank is equally open-minded and, some day we will be closer together in our opinions as he realizes he IS being paid to educate others to DO A JOB. Again, a dollar and cent motivation with an "employer" of some sort or other paying both people to exchange information, which neither of them "invented".

The herringbone most certainly HAS pre-existed Wolftat. However, he is under even LESS obligation (IN MY VIEW) to share his methods, under those circumstances. You wanna know how to make it, do some SERIOUS research. Clearly, it's been done, SOMEONE in those hundred years or so wrote a tutorial. GO FIND IT, if you can't figure out the process on your own. Neil and Steve (Akbar) have reintroduced an old concept which THEY figured out. They are under NO obligation to SHARE with anyone.

The link that shows the concept is over a century old, also means RESEARCH will result in success.

More than one source of information in the world. Just think, when I did research, there WAS NO INTERNET!!! NO GOOGLE!!! Not even Yahoo. All those founders were being BORN. We had to go to libraries -- try one ---math section ---- suspect you will find the "herringbone", called by some geometric name, spelled out in detail.

While you're there, you will be amazed what OTHER things you may learn.

FWIW!! WEPYPFI!!

By the way, Hank -- I do profit from my sales at exotics, but IF it were being run as a "life support business" our policies would be VERY different.
"Freebees" reduce profit. "Guest artists" reduce profit. "Flat rate freight" reduces profit. Well, let's leave it there. We started exotics because it seemed like fun to make blanks. We still get GREAT ENJOYMENT out of it, but it is NOT distorting my judgment or influencing my argument in this matter. I am a strong capitalist by nature --- I will defend EVERYONE'S RIGHT to EARN money from their innovations. If they are forced to give away those innovative ideas, why would they continue to SHOW them???
It's REAL HARD to eat "bragging rights" and with the current state of the economy, "pocket money" from your hobbies could be your only income next week, if you are laid off (Funny, my parents used to call that "fired", they both mean the same thing -- YOUR job is GONE!! You see, I have been unemployed in my life, but I have NOT taken money from the government during those times--I was not productive, I see no reason why I should be paid--- another part of being ornery and independent)

 

[wolftat]

Too funny! Looks like the "Sweat shops" have already gotten hold of someones "idea"..... before they did!

Looks like some don't mind sharing their secrets, Fabre Castell even has a page showing how some of their pens are made, even shows how their assembly line is set up. Check it out! http://www.faber-castell.com.au/196...cts-are-made/Connector-Pens/default_news.aspx

Well there you go, just follow their instructions and in five minutes you too can be carrying your own Herringbone 360 pen around. Best of luck to you.

 

[wolftat]

You are a business and you should respond that you will not help anyone because it is your business. I don't blame anyone for protecting their business.

However, unless you have a patent on the design or copyright, anyone can try to make something like it or copy it. Also bear in mind that this is a community forum and that ideas are shared simply by posting a picture. So when it comes to ideas, IF a business participates and shows off a pen, EXPECT it to be copied. I don't really have an interest in it although figuring it out is more fun than a problem. (multiple angles in a triangle form; or make a couple of round blanks, drill a hole through the center and then slice the pieces at an angle and then cut the sections)

Some people don't have the ability to visualize this. I don't hold that against them. LOML has taught me (didn't get paid for it either) that just because someone can't visualize something doesn't mean that they can't appreciate it - They may not be skillful at it either but at least they can say they tried. And giving step by step instructions for something that they have trouble visualizing (that I do naturally) - brings friendship, trust, loyalty and appreciation - that I can depend on down the road. I have reaped benefits from sharing what little I know with folks on this forum that some would rather hold to themselves. Personally, it is not about "me" and "mine" but helping others the way several helped me at the beginning.

I work with all kinds of people and supervise many personality types also. We have some wonderful people that have no idea of how to send attachments or open specialized forms on a computer. And me - I learned binary coding in the early 60's. So, I don't make fun of them or tell them they "have" figure it out for themselves. I often do other people's forms, or set up their computers, or write a detailed step by step list for them, and in return I get very very productive and effective work done from them.

I don't like spoon feeding people at all, but I will do that if it helps that person get back on their feet, or become productive or give them some special encouragement or develop confidence in themselves. Not understanding "concepts" "vision" or being able to figure things out should not limit people from enjoying the same things.

Hank, I think you have misinterpreted what I have said. I am not against people learning how to make this blank, I am against it being turned over to the large companies to be made in bulk. While I see that Farber-Castle is making the pen, they aren't selling the blanks.
I have always said that I would be happy to help someone that is serious and is willing to put in the time. I have also as previously stated sent a partially built blank to one person who after 6 weeks of correspondence with me, still could not visualize the final build. He was trying hard and was showing me pictures of what he was doing and was trying hard. He is now making them, but has chosen to not post them because of issues like this. I have been contacted by several people since this thread started and have told them all the same thing. "I will help, but I won't teach. Show me what you have done and I will try to point you in the right direction." I feel that this is not something you are going to learn in an hour or even a day. It took me 3 months of work to be able to build it, it took Steve 4 days to figure it out. Maybe he is smarter than me, or maybe he just went in a better direction than me, either way, I'm okay with it.
For those of you that want to learn this blank, work at it and then you will find that the rewards are much sweeter. I spent 3 days in my shop figuring out how to make the spiderweb pen, then I saw that there was a tutorial in the library. I had 3 days of relaxation (some frustration)and fun figuring it out for myself, I wouldn't change that even if I could. I am very proud of what I have learned by trying things for myself, maybe others need to learn the feeling that I feel.

 

[wolftat]

The problem is, Hank, as soon as you are nice and create a good tutorial on the subject in the spirit of sharing for personal use, all of a sudden, everyone is making YOUR creation and selling them in the classifieds and profiting from your idea.

There is that issue also. I have cactus as you know, and have made a few pens, but out of respect, I will not sell a blank.

 

[leehljp]

Warning, this turned long, sorry!
​

Hopefully, Hank is equally open-minded and, some day we will be closer together in our opinions as he realizes he IS being paid to educate others to DO A JOB. Again, a dollar and cent motivation with an "employer" of some sort or other paying both people to exchange information, which neither of them "invented".

Actually we are closer that most would think. I am a capitalist! But my profession is not that.

Also I am not a "teacher" in the sense that it is not my profession, but I do teach things, or mentor, or share, or show someone how to do something or train them. Some of that is outside of the money making profession. Dang - people call me all the time to teach them, help them, fix things, cultural things (why do Japanese do this?). And being the good ole boy, I do. Hard for me to say no!

AS to teaching, I got my degree in it, but one year of practice teaching when corporal punishment was first banned - was enough to drive me away from that before I even started! :biggrin:

In today's world, teaching is primarily the transfer of knowledge and mentoring is the transfer of values, which is where I like to work. I can make a few people do things by my position but that is not what I want. I prefer to transfer values and vision and watch them go beyond what I can do. I don't care to "educate" them to do a job, but rather motivate them.

AS to the "Paid to do a job", I didn't come here for the "pay". No pay is worth the HE** of learning this language in the school that I went too. But the other reasons and motives ARE worth it - helping people, and watching them come out of their shell!

 

[ed4copies]

Actually we are closer that most would think. I am a capitalist! But my profession is not that.

Also I am not a "teacher" in the sense that it is not my profession, but I do teach things, or mentor, or share, or show someone how to do something or train them. Some of that is outside of the money making profession. Dang - people call me all the time to teach them, help them, fix things, cultural things (why do Japanese do this?). And being the good ole boy, I do. Hard for me to say no!

AS to teaching, I got my degree in it, but one year of practice teaching when corporal punishment was first banned - was enough to drive me away from that before I even started! :biggrin:

In today's world, teaching is primarily the transfer of knowledge and mentoring is the transfer of values, which is where I like to work. I can make a few people do things by my position but that is not what I want. I prefer to transfer values and vision and watch them go beyond what I can do. I don't care to "educate" them to do a job, but rather motivate them.

AS to the "Paid to do a job", I didn't come here for the "pay". No pay is worth the HE** of learning this language in the school that I went too. But the other reasons and motives ARE worth it - helping people, and watching them come out of their shell!

Sorry, Hank. Can't have it both ways. The FACT that we are feeding our faces every day allows us to be GENEROUS. The question is NOT did you COME HERE for the pay, it is instead, would you STAY if they CEASED paying you. How would you eat? By showing others HOW to do something, your employer finds you "worth the money" they pay YOU. Additionally, you add value to those you teach.

Some of the people here are creative!! (not me) They have a right to SELL their creations. And they have a right not to SHARE EVERYTHING they know. They are NOT being paid to do so.

And I DO ENJOY debating with you. I hope you don't take any of it personally. I have great respect for you, from what I think I know about you. (On a different note, I thought VERY highly of a certain sports figure who won the Heisman, played football and moved on to broadcasting - so I HAVE been wrong about people, in the past)

 

[wolftat]

With all the passion in this thread, we should have someone creating a 12 row herringbone shortly. Lets see who will do it before me.

 

[ed4copies]

With all the passion in this thread, we should have someone creating a 12 row herringbone shortly. Lets see who will do it before me.

Neil,

That actually would be possible with tiny faceted gems. Of course, if you think the stars in the "Stars and Stripes" are small...............................!!

Then, about turning gems............................

So, there are a couple of obstacles!!

 

[akbar24601]

With all the passion in this thread, we should have someone creating a 12 row herringbone shortly. Lets see who will do it before me.

Well Neil, I've already got a prototype sitting in my "shop", just never took the time to make it in to a pen. Does that count for beating you to it?:biggrin:

 

[wolftat]

Well Neil, I've already got a prototype sitting in my "shop", just never took the time to make it in to a pen. Does that count for beating you to it?:biggrin:

Did I say 12? Uhmmmmm, I meant 24, uh no 36!